I'm pretty sure the dress code has changed

[BigMac1953]

Let's not forget, the bean counters have already changed the string quartet to a string trio. Must have saved a fortune!!!

[PORT ROYAL]

1 minute ago, BigMac1953 said:

Let's not forget, the bean counters have already changed the string quartet to a string trio. Must have saved a fortune!!!

Ha ha

On QM the trio went to a solo harpist, then they did not switch on the microphone.  Even more savings.

 

[techteach]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

When there is a line it is only good manners to wait for your turn never mind what you are wearing.

I couldn’t agree with you more @Windsurfboy. 

[techteach]

13 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I have to say, a newcomer to Cunard, this thread has been an education. Who would have thought that, if you don't wear a Homburg hat and a cravat, you are deemed to be either a gardener or a pretzel maker.

 

Also, I'm sure I've seen the term 'casual fifth columnist' used. The mind boggles about that one.

 

Fortunately, I'm taking more notice of your sensible posts, as I'm sure you are more representative of Cunard cruisers, that some of the pompous stuff I've had the misfortune to read. 

I agree with @Dermotsgirl. I have booked, but not yet cruised on Cunard. I too have been dumbfounded by some of the comments posted and have refrained from commenting on some of the elitist comments. But, her post is another example of how harmful they can be. People read them and decide not to cruise Cunard. Fortunately there are people posting telling readers to ignore the posts of those who would raise their eyebrows at those of us they perceive to be lower based upon the cut of our dinner jacket.

 

Words matter. Please think about people who do not know you except from your posted words. Wonder, would they want to meet me at a Meet and Greet on board?

 

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I have to say, a newcomer to Cunard, this thread has been an education. Who would have thought that, if you don't wear a Homburg hat and a cravat, you are deemed to be either a gardener or a pretzel maker.

 

Also, I'm sure I've seen the term 'casual fifth columnist' used. The mind boggles about that one.

 

Fortunately, I'm taking more notice of your sensible posts, as I'm sure you are more representative of Cunard cruisers, that some of the pompous stuff I've had the misfortune to read. 

Pompous people [I had a different alliteration in mind but Hattie would have deleted the post!😁] who pontificate in print could deter newbies which is the reason I'm so vociferous in defending us ordinary cruise passengers who happen to love Cunard.

I hope you enjoy your first Cunard experience and come away ready to let others know what a great bunch of passengers you met and how you've already booked your next Cunard cruise. 🙂

[naturelovergirl]

@Dermotsgirland @techteach

Cunard is our favorite… so beautiful and unique.

So

Look forward to your future voyages with Cunard! The anticipation is part of the fun!!!

(After you cruise on Cunard… and if you love it like so many of us do… I would imagine that you will be on these boards telling others how special it is too)

 

 

[exlondoner]

4 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

I've  never  noticed any difference in cuisine between formal and non formal nights. The food every night should be good enough to justify dressing up. So I  don't  think less formal nights saves money.

 

 

I agree. I was very surprised to discover that the food on non formal nights is in some way worse than formal nights. The only menu I think is invariably rather dull is the Grills embarkation day lunch. However, it is such a thrill to be aboard, I should probably be happy to eat gruel. 😀

[Tonopah]

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

 

However, it is such a thrill to be aboard, I should probably be happy to eat gruel. 😀

 

Honestly, the gruel (porridge/oatmeal) on the QM2 was some of the best I’ve ever had. Maybe it was the venue, but the consistency was perfect and it tasted like….well…porridge and not cardboard. 

[Lakesregion]

15 hours ago, Colin_Cameron said:

Odd. This was the same reason they gave when they insisted there was no demand for single cabins. There was no need for the extra expense. Then, what was the first major change to each of the ships just a few years later? Retrofitting single cabins into spaces not designed for, or with the utilities for accommodations. At a much higher cost than getting it right first time. Had they made a mistake? Of course not. They simply decided to improve the choices available to solo passengers.🙄

 

And the same reason that Queen Victoria cabins were built without drawers. "The customers don't want them." "There's no need for them." Even by the Maiden Voyage, when they finally talked to some real passengers, or the passengers talked to them (loudly), they knew they had to then spend months with shoreside workers aboard, living in passenger cabins, retrofitting drawers into every cabin on the ship. A mistake? No, just another improvement for those ever demanding passengers.

When the new Queen showed up with "No drawers" she was made fun of by passengers on the QE2. Glad they realized that mistakes can be corrected.

[nybumpkin]

16 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 

We popped into a garage one day, on a whim, and test drove a rather fast car. I was in true garden scruffs as we hadn't intended to stop anywhere en route, just a country drive in a nice day.. As my husband signed the purchase form, I asked the salesman why they had let two very casually dressed people test.  His reply 'never judge people by how they look, we'd miss millions of pounds of sales if we did, everyone who walks through our showroom door, is a potential customer''. Well it worked for us and that was five very fast cars ago.

 

16 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 

 

 

 

This reminds me of my dad's story from when he was in his early 20's, working his first job in Philadelphia. He wanted to buy a nice piece of glassware for his mother, and went to Wanamaker's Department Store. He was wearing jeans and a casual shirt. When he started looking at pieces, a clerk came over to him and said, "the less expensive items are over there," motioning to another department. Dad thanked her and continued shopping. He selected a rather expensive piece and took it to another clerk to purchase. The first clerk swooped over and insisted that Dad was her customer, and the two clerks bickered. A manager came over and asked Dad what happened - and Dad explained. The manager fired the first clerk on the spot.

 

For newbies, don't get worked up about the dress. I bring two well-worn cocktail dresses, long skirts and tunics that are very travel-friendly (read: I could wad them up in my suitcase if need be.🙂) DH does wear tuxedo/dinner jacket, but he had one pair of pants and two jackets for our three weeks on QM2. He was the only man at our table with a tux - everyone else went with a dark suit. and the clothes do repeat.

[foodsvcmgr]

With regard to the discussion on the perceived quality/cost of formal vs regular nights

food offerings, agree this is not particularly noticeable on Cunard.

A variety of items across the food spectrum are mixed in nightly.

On Celebrity, Princess, and HAL though, formal night brings out the better steaks, lobster, upscale appetizers, etc.

And regular nights sometimes border on depressing, great motivation to spend extra for a specialty restaurant.

[rakkor]

The Formal night menus tend to have the more glamourous dishes on them, Beef Wellington, Surf and Turf, Baked Alaska etc, , but the quality is always good no matter what the day is. If interested I have the Daily menus posted from a few of my cruises including the latest on my Blog - Daily Menus Link

[Windsurfboy]

I think it's time to bow out.

 

I still think Carnival  marketing  do not understand niche markets and Cunard would thrive carving out a unique niche , with more formal nights,  separating it from other lines. On the other had it should  get rid of the old fashioned jackets required code for smart attire. 

 

As for respect that's about the way you treat  people , not what you wear.

[PORT ROYAL]

Interesting conversation with a trusted Cunard friend.

 

The adjustments to the dress code was market led, based on global surveys.  According to the evidence, mainly from the USA and ANZ, it appears the Princess dress model proved overwhelmingly the most popular globally.  Carnival believes in the module “the more popular a product is, it will then lead to increased market share”.

Therefore, there could be more erosions on Cunard, to increase again the market share.  
Think further down the line there may be a requirement for renaming ceremonies.

Princess Mary 

Princess Elizabeth 

Princess  Victoria 

 

Unfollowing….

[majortom10]

2 hours ago, PORT ROYAL said:

Interesting conversation with a trusted Cunard friend.

 

The adjustments to the dress code was market led, based on global surveys.  According to the evidence, mainly from the USA and ANZ, it appears the Princess dress model proved overwhelmingly the most popular globally.  Carnival believes in the module “the more popular a product is, it will then lead to increased market share”.

Therefore, there could be more erosions on Cunard, to increase again the market share.  
Think further down the line there may be a requirement for renaming ceremonies.

Princess Mary 

Princess Elizabeth 

Princess  Victoria 

 

Unfollowing….

Hope they dont go down the Princess road as that is IMO the one big thing against them is their appalling dress code on Formal nights. I have shared a table with men in black t-shirts, polo shirts and even wearing baseball caps on Formal nights. 

[Lakesregion]

One wonders if the change in the dress code and the move to an earlier dining time is to accommodate those in the casual attire as they at least here in the US seem to like to have supper around 4:40 to 5"pm.

[majortom10]

11 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

One wonders if the change in the dress code and the move to an earlier dining time is to accommodate those in the casual attire as they at least here in the US seem to like to have supper around 4:40 to 5"pm.

The earlier dining times were only introduced for Seacation cruises around the UK and I think they have already been changed to later times from the earlier cruises. Nothing to do with dress code changes or to please American market.

[exlondoner]

Also, it must have been a bit frantic for the restaurant staff, with tea being in there, so a fairly limited window to clear that away, and get ready for first sitting.

[ClipperinSFO]

We like dressing up on QM2 because the formality of the dining room(s) and the route (TA) seem to warrant it.  For us, sailing the North Atlantic between Southampton and New York inspires tradition and formality,  so on a TA we tend to be formal 5 of the 7 nights, regardless of the official dress code.  The ship is so "dressy" in and of itself that it just feels right to be more formally attired.  Of course on the first and last nights we are just jacket and tie, as per TA custom -- since presumably the steamer trunks containing our formal wear are somewhere deep in the baggage room and are unavailable.  🙂

 

However, I'm not sure what my feeling would be if I were on a cruise on QM2.  The same rules/feelings towards dress code would not seem to apply due to port days, a more relaxed holiday vibe and a warmer brighter climate etc.  

[foodsvcmgr]

Interesting points clipper, we have been on two QM2 Caribbean sailings out of New York and I recall not the most enjoyable experience dressing in formal attire in that climate after a day at the beach.

Totally different on a TA.

Which brings up a possible compromise - why not a more relaxed dress code for cruise sailings and more traditional formal nights on TA’s?

Also any sailing with multiple sea days like World Cruise segments?

[bluemarble]

Not really intending to stir things up any further but here goes anyway.

 

Here are some stats derived from the partial dress code schedules I've been compiling for 2021-22.

QM2 Gala Evenings per week (2021-22): 1.83
QE Gala Evenings per week (2021-22): 1.78

 

For comparison here are those stats from what had been planned for last year.

QM2 Gala Evenings per week (2020): 2.46
QE Gala Evenings per week (2020): 2.00

Edited October 2, 2021 by bluemarble

[david,Mississauga]

On 10/1/2021 at 7:46 PM, kohl1957 said:

Yet the one cruise/voyage with the most sea days... QM2 14 January 2022 from Southampton to the West Indies has the fewest number of formal evenings of ANY cruise or crossing yet documented on a per day average. 20 days at sea, eight ports.... and four.... FOUR formal nights. And it's in the winter, too, with long evenings and hardly tropical at least until a day or two out of Madeira, either. 

 

Oh well, we are well past caring what Cunard thinks is appropriate in terms of evening attire and will dress as we always have on a Cunarder. Afterall, we have been doing it well before I suspect anyone in Princess/Cunard/Carnival have even been with the company on the corporate side. For me, that would be... gosh, 44 plus years (May 1977 QE2 being the first).

 

I admire you for dressing appropriately. If I were on such a long voyage with so few formal nights I would do the same. 

 

A friend, travelling solo, had two crossings on the QM2 in Princess Grill. He believes in the Atlantic tradition of dressing formally every night except the first and last, so he wore his DJ for five consecutive nights. He said no steamship line was going to tell him to downgrade his standards.

 

We have seen a lot of changes since our first Cunard crossing in 1973. Our earlier crossings on the QE2 were five nights, so there were three formal nights. When the crossings were extended to six nights there were four. On our first QM2 crossings - six nights at that time - there were four formal nights. That was soon changed to three formal and one semi-formal. When the crossings were extended to seven nights there remained three formal nights.

 

For many years Cunard maintained First Class and Tourist (later Transatlantic) Class. It was not the tradition to dress formally in Tourist, although a jacket and tie was required of men every night, including first and last. 

 

Mr. "kohl" I enjoyed your previous comments re wearing a jacket and tie when flying. When travelling I always wear a sport coat or blazer - for practical reasons more than for appearances. It is easy to add a tie. I admit I have not worn a tie on  a plane for many years. Once a year I fly with friends to Vancouver to board VIA's transcontinental train back to Toronto. We always fly Air Canada's Signature Class  and my one friend chastises me for not wearing a tie. You have inspired me so I will surprise said friend in a few weeks by doing so.

 

 

[exlondoner]

Sorry, I know this is nothing to do with ships, but why on earth should the aircrew care?

[foodsvcmgr]

Airline gate crew frequently care, those dressing well oft times are rewarded with space available upgrades. 

[carlmm]

What a disappointing decline.