"Always included" - false advertising?

[ak1004]

On a related note, we have a cruise with Celebrity that was booked back in 2019 when they still didn't have the "always included" fares - I assume we won't get all the perks?

 

btw, how they even know? Do people get different cards?

[bikerunner]

3 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

On a related note, we have a cruise with Celebrity that was booked back in 2019 when they still didn't have the "always included" fares - I assume we won't get all the perks?

 

btw, how they even know? Do people get different cards?

Marked on cards and when they scan the card it will show the bartender/etc what package you are on  I know the last cruise cards had differnet markings for drink packages, Call (classic) and Pall (Premium)I believe  but its on the account when looked up.  

[Jeremiah1212]

18 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

You are missing my point.

 

With Oceania, you clearly see both fares when you go to the cruise summary.

 

With Celebrity, they show you one price for each category, and a big slogan "Always included" - which implied that all prices are all inclusive. This is the meaning of ALWAYS. Only when you go to the actual booking, you see that for some categories, those prices are for "Simply Sail".

 

This also makes the comparison very difficult because some categories indicate prices for "Simply Sail" and others for "Always included".

 

Yes, it's a very smart marketing because many people now consider Celebrity an all inclusive line, while in fact it is not.

 

If you want to really throw yourself for a loop, have the TA send you their fare buckets. Most cruises have at least 8 fares, sometimes 11-12, on the exact same cabin. 

[davekathy]

5 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

On a related note, we have a cruise with Celebrity that was booked back in 2019 when they still didn't have the "always included" fares - I assume we won't get all the perks?

 

btw, how they even know? Do people get different cards?

You will not receive any of the AI's. CALL will be printed on the Sea Pass card for CBP and PALL will be printed on the Sea Pass card for PBP. 

[Tinkbelle87]

I believe "Always Included" is a carry-over from the cruising restart, a sales strategy to try and get people back onboard. Now that more people are sailing they added "Simply Sail" for people who want a cruise only fare. 

 

I have a cruise booked in 2018 that lifted and shifted to the end of October. I don't get the extra new perks but could have repriced to get those perks. The cost was significantly higher. I decided to stick with my original reservation which included the perks I really wanted anyways, grats and beverage package.

 

I expect soon enough we'll go back to the pre-COVID sales strategies.

[graphicguy]

@ak1004...you're making this more difficult than it is.

 

The "Always Included" fares are what they state they are.  They include things like drinks, internet, tips, etc.

 

"Simply Sail" really is exactly that.  You pay for drinks individually, internet isn't included, tips aren't included, etc.  It's simply the fare....no other inclusions.

 

It really is that simple.

 

Other cruise lines have different names for it, but essentially, you get perks (Always Included) or you just get a non-inclusive rate (Simply Sail).

 

If you don't like the names they use, I suppose you can call them up and tell them to change the names.  I'm sure they'll say "thanks for the input...we'll let our marketing dept know."

 

I just don't find it all that confusing.

[Stockjock]

I started a thread on this a while back and yes I do agree that it is misleading. And it used to be that they were extremely misleading on which bookings were made with a refundable deposit versus a nonrefundable deposit although I think they’ve cleaned that up.  

 

in terms of the pricing, the market will dictate what is fair and what is not fair. I personally think that some of their prices are OK and some of them are too high, but if the ships don’t fill up then that will tell them that they are not pricing their sailings correctly based upon the product they offer.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Stockjock

[bikerunner]

5 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

@ak1004...you're making this more difficult than it is.

 

The "Always Included" fares are what they state they are.  They include things like drinks, internet, tips, etc.

 

"Simply Sail" really is exactly that.  You pay for drinks individually, internet isn't included, tips aren't included, etc.  It's simply the fare....no other inclusions.

 

It really is that simple.

 

Other cruise lines have different names for it, but essentially, you get perks (Always Included) or you just get a non-inclusive rate (Simply Sail).

 

If you don't like the names they use, I suppose you can call them up and tell them to change the names.  I'm sure they'll say "thanks for the input...we'll let our marketing dept know."

 

I just don't find it all that confusing.

Ditto, same as any other marketing strategy out there for all types of products.  Just need to be aware and then be able to see if the cost benefit of the product meets your needs/costs.  Celebrity still is working out overall but always looking at other lines.  Mainly for itineraries and see what the ship offers me as a consumer.  

[Bo1953]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

j - do you happen to have any vegan butter??  LOL

 

bon voyage

[LGW59]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

I don't have a problem with a line that offers several levels of fares, some more inclusive, some less. But why to advertise "ALWAYS" included when in fact, those things are NEVER included in the basic fares, and you have to add a significant amount to get them included. To me, this is false advertising, plain and simple.

The basic fares are NOT advertised as inclusive of anything but the cabin.  Always Included is very clear for those levels, tips, wi-fi, drinks, it is not rocket science.  Don't have to like it, but nothing false about it.

[the penguins]

8 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

The basic fares are NOT advertised as inclusive of anything but the cabin.  Always Included is very clear for those levels, tips, wi-fi, drinks, it is not rocket science.  Don't have to like it, but nothing false about it.

If the base fare was available on all cruises and for bookable cabins we would not have an issue. The reality is it is available only on a very few cruises and only for guarantee cabins. After discounting the tips AI adds $100 per person day to cover drinks and Internet (Celebrity's figures because if you cancel an AI booking the cancellation invoice shows the breakdown). For anyone who is Elite + and above who doesn't drink alcohol AI is a very bad deal. Having added $100 -to cover the drinks and Internet the reduction given (once you have added the tips) for choosing Sail only is around $30 per day a profit for Celebrity of around $70 per person per day.

Solo passengers fare even worse paying for 2 lots of tips, 2 Internet packages and 2 drinks packages. 

[CroozFanatic]

Celebrity can't top NCL. Free WiFi on their home page promo is actually 250 minutes of connectivity...so four hours..out of what, 168 or 164 hours for a seven day cruise. Works out to 2.5% of the cruise. LOL!

 

 

 

[DrKoob]

1 hour ago, Tinkbelle87 said:

I believe "Always Included" is a carry-over from the cruising restart, a sales strategy to try and get people back onboard. Now that more people are sailing they added "Simply Sail" for people who want a cruise only fare. 

 

I have a cruise booked in 2018 that lifted and shifted to the end of October. I don't get the extra new perks but could have repriced to get those perks. The cost was significantly higher. I decided to stick with my original reservation which included the perks I really wanted anyways, grats and beverage package.

 

I expect soon enough we'll go back to the pre-COVID sales strategies.

Actually we won't go back. Celebrity really wants to be an all inclusive cruise line. They made that very clear when they did the announcement. If they wanted to encourage people to come back post COVID then they would have just dropped fares. They bumped fares significantly when they did this. Also, when they first did this, there was no Simply Sail prices. TAs were told...this is it. This is the way it will be from now on. Then there were so many complaints, they added the Simply Sail program. But as has been mentioned, it is not always available on some cruises.

 

Jim

[DrKoob]

Two things come to mind when reading this thread:

 

One, find a good Celebrity-specialist TA and let them deal with it for you. 

 

And two, the cruise lines aren't the only ones doing this. I get a ton of ads from airlines advertising LOW fares. But those low fares include nothing. No luggage, no carry ons, etc. You have to pay for them. And some of the time it doesn't tell you that until you are deep into your purchase. 

 

Jim

[dazey]

I started seeing Simply Sail long after the all inclusive started and I thought they threw that in as many people complained about not wanting to pay for perks they would not use.  Also it seems to come up as it gets closer to sail date and they want to sell more cabins. Since we always get the drink package(either), always pay gratuity, the all inclusive works for us.  

 

Just my opinion.

[bikerunner]

1 minute ago, DrKoob said:

Actually we won't go back. Celebrity really wants to be an all inclusive cruise line. They made that very clear when they did the announcement. If they wanted to encourage people to come back post COVID then they would have just dropped fares. They bumped fares significantly when they did this. Also, when they first did this, there was no Simply Sail prices. TAs were told...this is it. This is the way it will be from now on. Then there were so many complaints, they added the Simply Sail program. But as has been mentioned, it is not always available on some cruises.

 

Jim

Market conditions have completely changed since inception overall.  Many companies have had to adjust all types of things.  

[Bo1953]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

If the base fare was available on all cruises and for bookable cabins we would not have an issue. The reality is it is available only on a very few cruises and only for guarantee cabins. After discounting the tips AI adds $100 per person day to cover drinks and Internet (Celebrity's figures because if you cancel an AI booking the cancellation invoice shows the breakdown). For anyone who is Elite + and above who doesn't drink alcohol AI is a very bad deal. Having added $100 -to cover the drinks and Internet the reduction given (once you have added the tips) for choosing Sail only is around $30 per day a profit for Celebrity of around $70 per person per day.

Solo passengers fare even worse paying for 2 lots of tips, 2 Internet packages and 2 drinks packages. 

You are quite correct, or so I will suggest, yet many of us do the rough calculations and decide if a particular sailing is of value or not based on what is offered, to us.

 

If it is not of value at the time we are thinking of booking, some of us move on or wait until there is a sailing we want to pay for.

 

bon voyage

[CroozFanatic]

I think it's pretty simple. Celebrity rolled out the Always Included concept and bookings fell off a cliff.

[CroozFanatic]

2 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

You are quite correct, or so I will suggest, yet many of us do the rough calculations and decide if a particular sailing is of value or not based on what is offered, to us.

 

If it is not of value at the time we are thinking of booking, some of us move on or wait until there is a sailing we want to pay for.

 

bon voyage

 

I use the term Cruise Calculus.

[Tinkbelle87]

6 minutes ago, DrKoob said:

Actually we won't go back. Celebrity really wants to be an all inclusive cruise line. They made that very clear when they did the announcement. If they wanted to encourage people to come back post COVID then they would have just dropped fares. 

Perhaps it won't go back and that is fine with me. I'm ok with spending a bit more money to have a more all-inclusive, refined experience. I learned that when we stayed at our first all-inclusive resort this past March. Same with airlines, I choose a more inclusive airline and airfare versus the low-cost airlines. There is something for everybody out there.

 

Also, just my two cents, I figure some of the price hike during restart was due to capacity issues. Celebrity has a much smaller fleet and smaller ships than Royal so I figured that drove prices up in addition to adding in the all-inclusive bit. Hoping that levels out a bit once the entire fleet is back in service and back to full capacity. 

[HskrCrsr]

12 minutes ago, DrKoob said:

Actually we won't go back. Celebrity really wants to be an all inclusive cruise line. They made that very clear when they did the announcement. If they wanted to encourage people to come back post COVID then they would have just dropped fares. They bumped fares significantly when they did this. Also, when they first did this, there was no Simply Sail prices. TAs were told...this is it. This is the way it will be from now on. Then there were so many complaints, they added the Simply Sail program. But as has been mentioned, it is not always available on some cruises.

 

Jim

 

10 minutes ago, dazey said:

I started seeing Simply Sail long after the all inclusive started and I thought they threw that in as many people complained about not wanting to pay for perks they would not use.  Also it seems to come up as it gets closer to sail date and they want to sell more cabins. Since we always get the drink package(either), always pay gratuity, the all inclusive works for us.  

 

Just my opinion.

 

A slight correction to the two underlined statements - Simply Sail was baked into the program from the beginning. Prices were not available for some time as they initially said this would apply to select cruises within 90 days of departure. They have greatly expanded that window. See Question 27 of the FAQ (attached) that came out when this program was launched in November 2020. Note that other information changed after this, such as the cost to upgrade the drinks package, but the Simply Sail aspect was clearly there from the start.

 

CEL_Always_Inlcuded_FAQs.pdf

[CroozFanatic]

Q. #4: Why the change from Sail Your Way? A: Vacations should be effortless from the start. That’s why every Celebrity cruise base rate will now include drinks, Wi-Fi, and tips.

 

...except when it doesn't.

[PTC DAWG]

4 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Celebrity new slogan is "Always included - drinks, Wi-Fi, tips. But this is not really correct, is it? For many cabin categories, the advertised fare is for cruise only.

Good grief…

[Bo1953]

13 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

Q. #4: Why the change from Sail Your Way? A: Vacations should be effortless from the start. That’s why every Celebrity cruise base rate will now include drinks, Wi-Fi, and tips.

 

...except when it doesn't.

... OR when we choose not to read the fine print or visit X's website to keep up with the changes.

 

Not that I do often, but enough for policies I want to know more about before calling my TA or X on something of importance to me.

 

bon voyage

[PTC DAWG]

2 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

j - do you happen to have any vegan butter??  LOL

 

bon voyage

No such thing..IMHO..  🙂