Tipping now more important than ever

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 hour ago, KBs mum said:

The US is the outlier when it comes to tipping, in Europe we don't need to tip, the employer pays a decent wage, charges enough to cover it, tips are appreciated but not routine or expected. 

Tipping is rare in Australia and New Zealand, in some countries, I think Singapore is one, tipping is considered insulting. 

We tip according to local custom/convention when abroad. On ships that's whatever the suggested daily gratuity is, but in the UK it's usually included in the quoted price. 

 

Seems like a pretty provincial attitude.  Europe is not the be all and end all when it comes to tipping.  Even within Europe there are differences in tipping practices between countries and regions.  And open it up to the Rest of the World and there is wide variety of tipping practices and expectations.  So calling the US an outlier when it comes to tipping just reveals a Eurocentric perspective, when there is a lot more to the world than Europe.

 

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/tipping-customs-around-the-world

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

The employer knows this and is happy to avoid the expense of setting up a pension and to give good conditions of service, because the employee falsely believes that they are better off, and is thus 'happy'.

You seem to think that pensions come from Santa Claus.  That the company should add additional "employee compensation" in order to fund a pension.  No, when negotiating wages and benefits (pensions and health care, etc), the employer looks at "total employee compensation" to determine what wage keeps them afloat.  US Maritime unions have, for decades, taken less "take home" pay in order to increase the percentage of "total employee compensation" that goes to the pension.  In the US, there is no cost to the employer to set up a pension, its operating costs come out of the employer and employee contributions, merely reducing the amount of money available as a benefit to the employee.

 

So, do you know enough cruise ship crew to know whether they would like more money now, or less money now and some money after they retire.  And, what of those who don't stay in the industry long enough to become vested?  Typically, any maritime pension plan requires 5 years service before getting any of the money vested, and that at only a portion of the total.  Unions and employers that have pensions like to have turn over in staff, as the forfeited contributions allow them to continue to keep benefits high, while not increasing contributions.

[JRG]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Unions and employers that have pensions like to have turn over in staff, as the forfeited contributions allow them to continue to keep benefits high, while not increasing contributions.

 

This is a very difficult statement for me to believe.......just saying.....it doesn't make sense....

[KBs mum]

39 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Seems like a pretty provincial attitude.  Europe is not the be all and end all when it comes to tipping.  Even within Europe there are differences in tipping practices between countries and regions.  And open it up to the Rest of the World and there is wide variety of tipping practices and expectations.  So calling the US an outlier when it comes to tipping just reveals a Eurocentric perspective, when there is a lot more to the world than Europe.

 

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/tipping-customs-around-the-world

The person I was replying to and quoted specifically mentioned Europeans and tipping, I mentioned 3 countries as examples as well as including those in Europe in general. Last time I checked Singapore, and the Antipodes were not in Europe, which in itself has a lot of countries and cultures. The article you sent the link to is incorrect regarding tipping in my country, so it may be equally inaccurate elsewhere. 

Care must be taken to differentiage between those workers who are not salaried (sometimes called piece work), have a very low basic salary (eg some restaurant staff in the US) where the tips are actually wholely or partially the person's income or wages, and the countries where tips are not expected to form a part of any expected wages.

Service charges are not usually regarded as tips, but this varies by country.

As you quoted my reply to a specific point raised, out of context, and this is now getting away from ship crew renumeration, I'm going to say good evening, see you tomorrow. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by KBs mum

[alc13]

19 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Service charges are not usually regarded as tips, but this varies by country.

I agree, (and preferable to tips, too).

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Thanks, I thought my old eyes might have been seeing things.

Thanks - that was what I thought as well. And in Singapore,  the service charge is added, which us why there  is  no need for a tip..

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

Tipping does happen in Britain, but only because of opportunism by establishments

What absolute rubbish. 

We go to our local pub 3 or 4 times a month. We get good service,  and we are on first name terms with all the staff. 

The landlord runs his own pub,  and has an accompanying microbrewery.  

All the staff enjoy working there and it shows in their demeanour. And they have worked  there for ages,  so they are not exactly exploited ,

We always leave a tip - probably not of a US size - but to appreciate a job well done.

So, PL, what do you say!

 

[Peter Lanky]

4 minutes ago, wowzz said:

What absolute rubbish. 

We go to our local pub 3 or 4 times a month. We get good service,  and we are on first name terms with all the staff. 

The landlord runs his own pub,  and has an accompanying microbrewery.  

All the staff enjoy working there and it shows in their demeanour. And they have worked  there for ages,  so they are not exactly exploited ,

We always leave a tip - probably not of a US size - but to appreciate a job well done.

So, PL, what do you say!

 

I say do with your money as you wish. Just don't expect me or many others to be FORCED to go along with it, and don't bully people in your company to do something they don't want to do, but maybe won't admit it because they want to stay friends. This DOES happen, believe me. 

[wowzz]

32 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

I say do with your money as you wish. Just don't expect me or many others to be FORCED to go along with it, and don't bully people in your company to do something they don't want to do, but maybe won't admit it because they want to stay friends. This DOES happen, believe me. 

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.  

Who am I bullying, and who are wanting to stay friends.  

Time for a lie down I think !

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, JRG said:

 

This is a very difficult statement for me to believe.......just saying.....it doesn't make sense....

Sadly, perhaps, pension and insurance schemes always depend, to some extent, on the fact that some people who pay into the plan do not, for one reason or another, manage to reap return from the plan.

 

In the insurance field the benefit to the plan usually results from what are called "lapses" - instances where people just stop paying premiums and have no recovery resulting from an indemnified loss.  Pension plans do well when people leave the employ of the plan sponsor before they become "vested", leaving unclaimed the set-asides dedicated to fund their anticipated entitlements in the plan. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[ilikeanswers]

10 hours ago, George C said:

Once our income goes down we will go back to normal tipping. 

 

So at your regular places do you let them know that so the staff don't think the reduction is due to not liking the service? 

 

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Obviously you haven't cruised on NCL's Pride of America!

 

Well I do love a little gossip sounds like my kind of cruise😜. 

 

6 hours ago, KBs mum said:

I think Singapore is one, tipping is considered insulting. 

 

I know someone who once left a tip in a restaurant in South Korea and was chased down the street by the waitress trying to return the money😂. 

[George C]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

So at your regular places do you let them know that so the staff don't think the reduction is due to not liking the service? 

 

 

Well I do love a little gossip sounds like my kind of cruise😜. 

 

 

I know someone who once left a tip in a restaurant in South Korea and was chased down the street by the waitress trying to return the money😂. 

We will always give a good tip , sounds like you should vacation at a place like sandals where tips are forbidden and they will terminate employees that accept tips. We spent over 80 in tips tonight, for bartender, waiter and singer. I was just saying you should tip a little extra if it is in your budget and you received great service.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, George C said:

We will always give a good tip , sounds like you should vacation at a place like sandals where tips are forbidden and they will terminate employees that accept tips. We spent over 80 in tips tonight, for bartender, waiter and singer. I was just saying you should tip a little extra if it is in your budget and you received great service.

 

I guess I am just curious. I didn't grow up with a tipping culture so I dont fully  understand the concept😳. Just reading this thread tipping sounds like an existential question😂. What gets me wondering if people tip more because of Covid and then they reduce tips because they think covid issues are over won't that send the impression to staff that their work is not good enough hence the reduction in tips. Are they aware that people are sort of charity tipping🤔? 

Edited February 10, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[Peter Lanky]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I guess I am just curious. I didn't grow up with a tipping culture so I dont fully  understand the concept😳. Just reading this thread tipping sounds like an existential question😂. What gets me wondering if people tip more because of Covid and then they reduce tips because they think covid issues are over won't that send the impression to staff that their work is not good enough hence the reduction in tips. Are they aware that people are sort of charity tipping🤔? 

Quite.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Peter Lanky

[sparks1093]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I guess I am just curious. I didn't grow up with a tipping culture so I dont fully  understand the concept😳. Just reading this thread tipping sounds like an existential question😂. What gets me wondering if people tip more because of Covid and then they reduce tips because they think covid issues are over won't that send the impression to staff that their work is not good enough hence the reduction in tips. Are they aware that people are sort of charity tipping🤔? 

I think they probably are aware of that. When this is "over" then presumably things will pick up at the establishment they are working for and then they will start earning what they normally earned during the downturn in business. Not everyone tips more just as not everyone tips at all. 

[c-boy]

10 hours ago, George C said:

We will always give a good tip , sounds like you should vacation at a place like sandals where tips are forbidden and they will terminate employees that accept tips. We spent over 80 in tips tonight, for bartender, waiter and singer. I was just saying you should tip a little extra if it is in your budget and you received great service.

wonderful ! here in America are blessed with the good fortune of being in the top ten average income earners in the world and, a willingness to share our good fortune in forms such as gratuities.   

[JRG]

James Bond (RIP) always tipped the croupier at the tables....

 

 

 

 

 

[c-boy]

 

The man who bluffs well does well, the man who dresses well does even better.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

James Bond (RIP) always tipped the croupier at the tables....

 

 

 

 

 

And that was despite being British.😉

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, c-boy said:

wonderful ! here in America are blessed with the good fortune of being in the top ten average income earners in the world and, a willingness to share our good fortune in forms such as gratuities.   

 

....but reluctant to grant those at the bottom of the income range a living wage.

[Peter Lanky]

2 hours ago, JRG said:

James Bond (RIP) always tipped the croupier at the tables....

 

The Broccoli family wants to ensure that transatlantic viewing figures remain high. 😉

[navybankerteacher]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

....but reluctant to grant those at the bottom of the income range a living wage.

Are you unaware of the multiple Federal and state income supplement and other programs?

 

  Admittedly, they do not provide a comfortable life style, but they certainly do offer "LIVING" income. Still, "living wage" is only capable of being discussed when it is defined

 

Depending upon where on the progressive scale a person's attitude is, it is possible to complain of any system which fails to guarantee absolutely equal income to all.   

[Aquahound]

I'm so sick of people throwing around this "living wage" banter.  What does that even mean?  Compared to who and to what?  

[KBs mum]

3 hours ago, JRG said:

James Bond (RIP) always tipped the croupier at the tables....

 

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't that have made the tables fall over? And injured the croupier? Was he trying to create a diversion? 🤔😁

[Toofarfromthesea]

22 hours ago, KBs mum said:

The person I was replying to and quoted specifically mentioned Europeans and tipping, I mentioned 3 countries as examples as well as including those in Europe in general. Last time I checked Singapore, and the Antipodes were not in Europe, which in itself has a lot of countries and cultures. The article you sent the link to is incorrect regarding tipping in my country, so it may be equally inaccurate elsewhere. 

Care must be taken to differentiage between those workers who are not salaried (sometimes called piece work), have a very low basic salary (eg some restaurant staff in the US) where the tips are actually wholely or partially the person's income or wages, and the countries where tips are not expected to form a part of any expected wages.

Service charges are not usually regarded as tips, but this varies by country.

As you quoted my reply to a specific point raised, out of context, and this is now getting away from ship crew renumeration, I'm going to say good evening, see you tomorrow. 

 

You said the US is an outlier and I demonstrated it isn't.  "I was quoted out of context" is a politician's trick.