Azura Standard

[brian1]

14 hours ago, davecttr said:

Ventura and Azura are 14 and 12 years old so maybe they should be getting a major refurbishment of all the passenger areas,  both public and cabins. I suggest more than £50 million per ship should do the job.

 

For me I like least that the 'Crows  Nest' is at the wrong end of the ship and they need more variety of restaurants.

Is that what they call Skywalkers on Princess Dave?I like that,not quite so bouncy as the bow,great wake view and has wings so the bow view is almost visible.

[Captain_Morgan]

I think its safe to say that Iona and Arvia are the future replacements for the likes of Azura and Ventura, which is in line with what seems to be the Corporate objective over the years of 'build bigger'.

If you look across every company under the Carnival Corporate umbrella, every single one of the newest ships has been bigger than the previous class, and this includes Seabourn!

Sadly, the smaller ships that often do longer trips and go to more interesting places are not as profitable as the mega-ships which are more akin to a city bus with a revolving door, which of course means a much faster degradation of both the hard and soft fixtures and equipment.

As it relates to P&O, the current leadership seems quite content to focus on maximizing profits through grossly over-populated ships, sailing on short trips at seemingly 'affordable' prices in order to appeal to a younger market share.

[LondonLad60]

15 hours ago, pennib said:

Azura has had a refit and we were on the first cruise out of Barbados after it. Lots of new carpets, and furniture in the buffet. Not sure about the carpets in cabins whether they had been replaced but they were OK but TVs in cabins are very small and out of the ark.

I seem to recall the TV's on Oriana were also rather small. I assumed that was why the binoculars were provided in the cabin...

 

Bob

[Bazrat]

3 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

I think its safe to say that Iona and Arvia are the future replacements for the likes of Azura and Ventura, which is in line with what seems to be the Corporate objective over the years of 'build bigger'.

If you look across every company under the Carnival Corporate umbrella, every single one of the newest ships has been bigger than the previous class, and this includes Seabourn!

Sadly, the smaller ships that often do longer trips and go to more interesting places are not as profitable as the mega-ships which are more akin to a city bus with a revolving door, which of course means a much faster degradation of both the hard and soft fixtures and equipment.

As it relates to P&O, the current leadership seems quite content to focus on maximizing profits through grossly over-populated ships, sailing on short trips at seemingly 'affordable' prices in order to appeal to a younger market share.

Ok grossly overpopulated ships is that now past or present, short trips what do you define as short trips

[brian1]

3 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

I think its safe to say that Iona and Arvia are the future replacements for the likes of Azura and Ventura, which is in line with what seems to be the Corporate objective over the years of 'build bigger'.

If you look across every company under the Carnival Corporate umbrella, every single one of the newest ships has been bigger than the previous class, and this includes Seabourn!

Sadly, the smaller ships that often do longer trips and go to more interesting places are not as profitable as the mega-ships which are more akin to a city bus with a revolving door, which of course means a much faster degradation of both the hard and soft fixtures and equipment.

As it relates to P&O, the current leadership seems quite content to focus on maximizing profits through grossly over-populated ships, sailing on short trips at seemingly 'affordable' prices in order to appeal to a younger market share.

A and V are no tiddlers.At 116000 tons and 3000+ peeps,they are still up there with the bigger boys.

[Captain_Morgan]

12 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Ok grossly overpopulated ships is that now past or present, short trips what do you define as short trips

Grossly over populated is the notion of packing 5000+ passengers onto a ship which is what Iona and Arvia are designed to accommodate; the fact Iona is not sailing at her full capacity is not the norm and I'm sure the preference would be to have her chocka-block on a 7 day trip which would equal much higher returns and a much faster breakdown of the hard and soft furnishings & equipment

 

11 minutes ago, brian1 said:

A and V are no tiddlers. At 116000 tons and 3000+ peeps, they are still up there with the bigger boys.

 

They're certainly not small, but when you consider they were the largest ships ever built for the British cruising market at the time of their introduction, and they were in turn followed by Britannia which overtook that honor and now she too has been replaced by Iona so the trend is pretty obvious...

[Bazrat]

11 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Grossly over populated is the notion of packing 5000+ passengers onto a ship which is what Iona and Arvia are designed to accommodate; the fact Iona is not sailing at her full capacity is not the norm and I'm sure the preference would be to have her chocka-block on a 7 day trip which would equal much higher returns and a much faster breakdown of the hard and soft furnishings & equipment

 

 

They're certainly not small, but when you consider they were the largest ships ever built for the British cruising market at the time of their introduction, and they were in turn followed by Britannia which overtook that honor and now she too has been replaced by Iona so the trend is pretty obvious...

So you are referring to the two newer ships rather than the fleet in general

[brian1]

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Grossly over populated is the notion of packing 5000+ passengers onto a ship which is what Iona and Arvia are designed to accommodate; the fact Iona is not sailing at her full capacity is not the norm and I'm sure the preference would be to have her chocka-block on a 7 day trip which would equal much higher returns and a much faster breakdown of the hard and soft furnishings & equipment

 

 

They're certainly not small, but when you consider they were the largest ships ever built for the British cruising market at the time of their introduction, and they were in turn followed by Britannia which overtook that honor and now she too has been replaced by Iona so the trend is pretty obvious...

There will always be a niche for Grand class ships on certain itineraries.Far East,Alaska,Australasia and the Americas to name a few.Although Princess mainly use these routes on their Grand class,perhaps P&O will expand.

[Denarius]

3 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Grossly over populated is the notion of packing 5000+ passengers onto a ship which is what Iona and Arvia are designed to accommodate; the fact Iona is not sailing at her full capacity is not the norm and I'm sure the preference would be to have her chocka-block on a 7 day trip which would equal much higher returns and a much faster breakdown of the hard and soft furnishings & equipment

 

 

They're certainly not small, but when you consider they were the largest ships ever built for the British cruising market at the time of their introduction, and they were in turn followed by Britannia which overtook that honor and now she too has been replaced by Iona so the trend is pretty obvious...

Quite so. Compared to Azura and Ventura the original Queen Mary (81K grt, 2140 passengers) and QE2 (70K grt, 1777 passengers) are positively mid size!

Edited February 19, 2022 by Denarius

[kalos]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

So what do passengers want? Perhaps you could identify specifics.

 

A lot of passenger research is done in planning refurbs.

 

A USB socket that is built into the bedside lamps or into the 3 pin UK sockets that are 

on the Azura and Ventura ships would be nice .

[pennib]

If anyone is looking to.compare the standard of decoration and presentation may I suggest a cruise on MSC. We have found that the decor and cleanliness of public areas on those ships far outstrips anything on P&O. And this was pre-covid.

[Bazrat]

25 minutes ago, pennib said:

If anyone is looking to.compare the standard of decoration and presentation may I suggest a cruise on MSC. We have found that the decor and cleanliness of public areas on those ships far outstrips anything on P&O. And this was pre-covid.

I haven't found any p&o ships to dirty, as for MSC there COVID protocols didn't work

[molecrochip]

51 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

A USB socket that is built into the bedside lamps or into the 3 pin UK sockets that are 

on the Azura and Ventura ships would be nice .

Agreed, and all future ships should have this capability as standard - but I'm not aware of any other cruise line that is retrofitting USB plugs to ships that are 15 years old.

[2BACRUISER]

2 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Agreed, and all future ships should have this capability as standard - but I'm not aware of any other cruise line that is retrofitting USB plugs to ships that are 15 years old.

Marella have to the ships that were ex celebrity ships. 

[molecrochip]

4 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

I think its safe to say that Iona and Arvia are the future replacements for the likes of Azura and Ventura, which is in line with what seems to be the Corporate objective over the years of 'build bigger'.

If you look across every company under the Carnival Corporate umbrella, every single one of the newest ships has been bigger than the previous class, and this includes Seabourn!

Sadly, the smaller ships that often do longer trips and go to more interesting places are not as profitable as the mega-ships which are more akin to a city bus with a revolving door, which of course means a much faster degradation of both the hard and soft fixtures and equipment.

As it relates to P&O, the current leadership seems quite content to focus on maximizing profits through grossly over-populated ships, sailing on short trips at seemingly 'affordable' prices in order to appeal to a younger market share.

I don't think its safe to say that at all. Iona was actually the Oriana/Adonia capacity replacement and Arvia was a replacement for Oceana. Both were capacity increases.

 

In the end, Oriana left the fleet in 2019, a year ahead of Iona's arrival. I expected Oceana to leave the fleet in March 2022, and Arvia was originally due in early May 2022.

 

As for P&O, yes they are focused on a younger demographic than 15 years ago. They are now hungry for the 25-45 market as core rather than the 45-65 market of previously. That market wants shorter, more flexible holidays but actually the price point doesn't much change for a balcony cabin, ignoring pandemic.

[molecrochip]

8 minutes ago, 2BACRUISER said:

Marella have to the ships that were ex celebrity ships. 

But they are ships which have changed company. There is a marked difference between a ship being refitted in an 18 day dry dock and one that spends 6-12 weeks having a full transformation for onward delivery to another company.

Edited February 19, 2022 by molecrochip

[molecrochip]

4 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I don't think its safe to say that at all. Iona was actually the Oriana/Adonia capacity replacement and Arvia was a replacement for Oceana. Both were capacity increases.

 

In the end, Oriana left the fleet in 2019, a year ahead of Iona's arrival. I expected Oceana to leave the fleet in March 2022, and Arvia was originally due in early May 2022.

 

As for P&O, yes they are focused on a younger demographic than 15 years ago. They are now hungry for the 25-45 market as core rather than the 45-65 market of previously. That market wants shorter, more flexible holidays but actually the price point doesn't much change for a balcony cabin, ignoring pandemic.

And the replacements for Azura and Ventura are likely to not be the current new class of ship, or the next... but probably the one after - due around 2030-2035.

[davecttr]

14 minutes ago, 2BACRUISER said:

Marella have to the ships that were ex celebrity ships. 

And they are up to 27 years old!

[Son of Anarchy]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

And the replacements for Azura and Ventura are likely to not be the current new class of ship, or the next... but probably the one after - due around 2030-2035.

I'd like to think that we will still be here!

[amfc_lenny]

If p and o are going for the 25-45 age group then to be honest, Ventura and Azura aren’t going to cut it.

 

My wife and I fall in this category, and our friends/ colleagues/ siblings don’t want to cruise, also a lot of them would really be put off by the dated decor and the postage stamp tv’s.

 

[Harry Peterson]

4 hours ago, molecrochip said:

As for P&O, yes they are focused on a younger demographic than 15 years ago. They are now hungry for the 25-45 market as core rather than the 45-65 market of previously. That market wants shorter, more flexible holidays but actually the price point doesn't much change for a balcony cabin, ignoring pandemic.

I do wonder about that strategy.  There's likely to be a huge difference in the spending power of Millennials and Gen Z, compared with previous generations, thanks to the impact of 2007/8 and the pandemic.

 

If Carnival have got this wrong, particularly with bigger ships coming onstream there might just be a lot of bargain cruises around to get them filled.

[molecrochip]

45 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I do wonder about that strategy.  There's likely to be a huge difference in the spending power of Millennials and Gen Z, compared with previous generations, thanks to the impact of 2007/8 and the pandemic.

 

If Carnival have got this wrong, particularly with bigger ships coming onstream there might just be a lot of bargain cruises around to get them filled.

If anything the pandemic has helped reinforce a strategy set before the pandemic.

 

Millennials/Gen Z are finding that they have more disposable income post pandemic because a lot of them have not/are no longer paying for commuting, that morning expensive coffee, for the kids to go to clubs.

 

Also bear in mind that the money is not made in selling the cruise cabin, its made in the on board spend therefore bargain cruise cabins are not necessarily a problem.

[majortom10]

We were told many years ago on Arcadia at loyalty party when the Captain announced the build of Ventura and we spoke to a senior officer and even then he said P&O were aiming for the younger market because they spent more onboard on drinks and speciality dining. He said many of the traditional P&O ers at that time had been used to spending very little onboard especially if they didnt drink alcohol as there were no speciality restaurants at extra cost and speciality coffee shops. He did say you would be surprised how many got off the ship at end of cruise with  a zero balance on their statements. 

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

We were told many years ago on Arcadia at loyalty party when the Captain announced the build of Ventura and we spoke to a senior officer and even then he said P&O were aiming for the younger market because they spent more onboard on drinks and speciality dining. He said many of the traditional P&O ers at that time had been used to spending very little onboard especially if they didnt drink alcohol as there were no speciality restaurants at extra cost and speciality coffee shops. He did say you would be surprised how many got off the ship at end of cruise with  a zero balance on their statements. 

That's very true. I seem to recollect that 30% of cruise line profits come from onboard spending.

So, it is understandable why there is a move to attracting those who are prepared to spend money on board, as compared to those who only eat in the MDR, don't drink, don't go on ship excursions etc.

[terrierjohn]

13 minutes ago, wowzz said:

That's very true. I seem to recollect that 30% of cruise line profits come from onboard spending.

So, it is understandable why there is a move to attracting those who are prepared to spend money on board, as compared to those who only eat in the MDR, don't drink, don't go on ship excursions etc.

I suppose it's only natural, when we were young spending ten shillings (50p,) on a night out was extravagant, nowadays young ones think nothing of spending £50 on a night out.