Flying in the day of the cruise

[Hlitner]

On 3/15/2022 at 12:07 PM, SmoothFlying said:

In a 'perfect' world, I'd rather fly in on the day of. But, those days were over sixty, seventy years ago when people wore their 'Sunday best' and thought it was a REAL experience and were thrilled about flying. Now, today you can have a cascade of problems arise, either in the air or on the ground. You have little old ladies knocking flight attendants teeth out, nuts trying to force either their way into the cockpit OR force open the escape door exit (which, I've heard can't be done we HOPE). Add the possibility of either aircraft problems which can cause cancelled flights or bad weather enroute to your cruise destination or some joker decides to call in a prank bomb threat and you MIGHT be delayed. But it's a rare occasion when any of these incidents COULD happen. But, just know there's always a chance. As the old saying goes, 'You pays your money, ya takes your chances'.

 

Actually, I think the odds are IN your favor flying in the day of. Good luck !

Mac

So lets talk about odds.  Assume that the "odds" are about 90% in your favor if you fly in the day of a cruise.  That would still mean that 10% of those who chose that option would miss their cruise.  There is nothing "smoothflying" about today's airline industry.  It has become a mess with a shortage of flight crews, crews running out of allowable flying hours before the end of the month, shortages of flight attendants,  cancelled flights (often measured in the thousands per day), flight crews not being able to get to their working airport because their deadhead flight is cancelled or delayed, etc.

 

Much of the time the system does work,  But these days there is very little margin built into the system if anything goes wrong (anywhere) such as bad weather, computer outages, etc.  We just experienced a messy situation last weekend when it took us 57 hours to get home (Harrisburg PA) from Puerto Vallarta.  The journey should have taken about 8 hours!  Bottom line was a mechanical problem delayed a single flight by 3 hours, a connection was missed, and there were no available seats (on any airline) to our destination for 3 days.  And I should add that not only were there no seats to our destination but it was the same to BWI, IAD, PHL, and even EWR.  Why?  Too few flights and a surge in passengers due to spring break (or so we were told).

 

While we were spending hours (over 2 days) at DFW trying to find any way to get home (we finally got a flight to Cleveland from where we had to rent a car and drive 5 1/2 hours at our own expense) we met many folks who had similar issues (saw one woman break down in tears when told...."we cannot help you today.").   Add to this the problem that even if you can get a flight to a different airport it may well be that there are no available rental cars (at any price) or a few cars at outrageous prices (hundreds of dollars per day).

 

My advice is that those traveling in the next few months adopt a very conservative approach and build in a few extra days to get to any important destination (such as an embarkation port).

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

Anyone saying flying in on embarkation date has most likely not done much air travel lately.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Anyone saying flying in on embarkation date has most likely not done much air travel lately.

I will tell you what is a bit frightening even to those ole experienced traveler.  When it came to domestic air travel we used to think that flying-in one day early would handle most situations (there are always some weather issues where 1 day would not be enough).  But these days allowing 1 extra day may not be enough and even 2 days may not be enough.  I guess the best solution is to fly-in one day early and buy insurance to cover other contingencies.  Even though I am not a fan of so-called trip insurance it sure makes a lot of sense these days.

 

Hank

[pris993]

6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Non-stop is more important than direct - every scheduled stop adds to the risk of delay.

Thanks for clarifying what I meant.  Yes, I always look for non-stop, if at all possible. 

 

Your comments also remind me of another issue, if I can't do a non-stop, I try to avoid code share as well, so that luggage is handled by only one airline.   Feel this helps to avoid loss or delayed luggage.   Having extra time at arrival city helps if luggage is delayed. 

[Charles4515]

45 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I will tell you what is a bit frightening even to those ole experienced traveler.  When it came to domestic air travel we used to think that flying-in one day early would handle most situations (there are always some weather issues where 1 day would not be enough).  But these days allowing 1 extra day may not be enough and even 2 days may not be enough.  I guess the best solution is to fly-in one day early and buy insurance to cover other contingencies.  Even though I am not a fan of so-called trip insurance it sure makes a lot of sense these days.

 

Hank

 

I use a credit card when I purchase domestic flights that has trip insurance. 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

I use a credit card when I purchase domestic flights that has trip insurance. 

I assume you are not so naive to believe that the credit card insurance is not without various clauses.  I have previously collected from credit card insurance (for a major trip interruption situation) but the circumstances were very clear and cleared every roadblock that the claims examiner tried to use as an excuse not to approve the claim (which was ultimately paid off at $10,000).   But missing a cruise because the airline does not get you to the port on time is a tough claim.  So, for example, the Chase Sapphire cards (both preferred and reserve) have one of the better benefit packages.  In the case of a delay (of more than 12 hours) by an airline they will reimburse hotel and meal expenses up to $500.  In our case the airline provided vouchers for hotels (not the ones we would have preferred) and gave us meal vouchers (nearly worthless because few places would accept those vouchers).  But the credit card insurance would likely argue that the airline covered our expenses and perhaps, if we decide to spend hours filing claims and dealing with the months of hagling we might be able to collect a few extra dollars for meals.  If we had been willing to wait nearly 2 more days in Dallas, AA would have flown us home.  We could not wait (we had some important obligations) from Saturday until a Tuesday night flight so worked with the airline to find an alternative.  That alternative meant we had to rent a car $150 and pay for gas (about $60) and tolls (about $30) which is not reimbursable by anyone.  Any insurer would simply argue we should have stayed in Dallas (where AA was paying for hotels) until such time as the airline would get us home.

 

But when the cruise line offers you, at best, a future cruise credit the insurance companies say you have been adequately compensated.  And if the airline eventually gets you to your desired destination (and they will do this) the insurer says you are owed nothing.  And if the airline provides you with a voucher (for future air) the insurer says you have been compensated.  That is reality.

 

The language for that trip delay coverage says: Coverage is in excess of any expenses paid by any other party, including applicable insurance.  

 

The credit card insurance carrier would likely argue that we should have found an eating  place (even if miles away) that accepted airline meal vouchers.  One bummer about meal vouchers is that airlines generally put folks in hotels that do not even have restaurants (other than a free breakfast).  Our first night was it a Comfort Inn Suites (only option for us) where they had a canteen room where we could purchase some frozen food (to be cooked in the room microwave).  The stuff offered was awful...but at least they did accept the airline voucher.  So my dinner was a microwaved stir-fry with a M&Ms for a dessert and a bottle of water...all covered by the $12 meal voucher.  Wow.  The 2nd night's hotel was a nicer place (we had found a dead roach in our Comfort Suites room) that did not even have a canteen where one could purchase anything.  They did have a soda vending machine and free breakfast (we had to go to the airport before breakfast was even open).  We finally opted for a gourmet" lunch at Denny's (they do not take airline vouchers).  If we tried to claim that lunch the insurer would likely argue that since we had vouchers ($48 a day for 2) it was not appropriate for us to eat at the only restaurant within walking distance of our hotel.  They would say we should have found some place that took vouchers (if they even exist).

 

I just mention all this stuff (having spent a lifetime working in the government health insurance industry) to point out that most insurance is quite limited and credit card insurance is generally among the most limited of all!   Our 2 day delay in getting home cost us about $500 out of pocket which is not likely to be reimbursed by anyone!  We accept this as the cost of travel and actually feel fortunate that AA did pick-up the hotel cost (that is unusual these days).  I would add that if a delay is due to weather, the airline has no obligation to provide any help (other then getting you on a later flight which could be days later).  Airlines have an annoying habit of saying that most delays are due to weather even if the weather where you are is gorgeous.  They might argue that the aircraft was delayed by bad weather thousands of miles distant and this was a chain situation that caused your problems.  In our case the delay was clearly a mechanical problem so AA had little choice but to pay for hotels.

 

I would add that we are not angry and understand that this kind of thing does happen in the travel world.  We are also not overly upset about losing some money since we have long accepted that self-insurance is part of travel.  I would also praise the AA staff at DFW who were pleasant and willing to work with us to find a solution.  It is not the fault of the employees that all the flights are overbooked and finding seats for those with cancelled or delayed flights is not a given these days.

 

Hank

[ilikeanswers]

I once found myself in a bit of a schedule problem where flying in day of embarkation was the most feasible option. This website I found helped a bit: Flight Aware

 

It gives you the history of different flight routes so you can assess the reliability of the flight. My particular route had a high reliability and it did turn out alright for me. It is not to say something can't still go wrong but at least it can give you some data to help make an informed decision or I suppose in you case hopefully give some comfort. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[Zach1213]

11 hours ago, pris993 said:

Thanks for clarifying what I meant.  Yes, I always look for non-stop, if at all possible. 

 

Your comments also remind me of another issue, if I can't do a non-stop, I try to avoid code share as well, so that luggage is handled by only one airline.   Feel this helps to avoid loss or delayed luggage.   Having extra time at arrival city helps if luggage is delayed. 

 

So, I will say this as someone who does a LOT of codeshares (mostly within the same alliance) and has been doing a lot of codeshares for 15 years now. The only time in those 15 years when there was an issue with one airline handing off to another was a non-codeshare flight where Midwest Airlines was supposed to pass it off to Qantas (was flying MCI-LAX-SYD), but did not. Yes, Midwest Airlines...so this isn't a recent story by any means! Funny enough, they ended up re-routing it from LAX to SYD via AKL on Air New Zealand that night, so my bag went on a totally different airline, totally different alliance, through a totally different country, and caught up to me about 10 hours later. 

 

Codeshares are usually pretty seamless for luggage, knock on wood. 

[navybankerteacher]

9 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

…

 

Codeshares are usually pretty seamless for luggage, knock on wood. 

“usually” means that sometimes “not”.  
Think about it.

[Zach1213]

10 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

“usually” means that sometimes “not”.  
Think about it.

 

You could say that about everything in the world. I don't really need to think about it. Over the last 15 years I've flown more than 2.5 million BIS miles. I've probably checked a bag on 1.25 million of those. I've had the issue once. Could that one time also happen to someone who flies 1,000 miles a year? Sure...but they could also get hit by a truck on the way to the airport. At some point you can't account for every little risk. 

[2wheelin]

14 hours ago, Hlitner said:

  Too few flights and a surge in passengers due to spring break (or so we were told).

 

Hank

They keep using that excuse. What a surprise that there was a spring break again this year. Who would have thought it. They just overbook in hopes people don’t show up. 

 

I’m more inclined to believe they have too few workers to support more flights. Too many people in this country profited from covid government handouts to feel like working now. We met a young couple at the airport who are on a year-long honeymoon just traveling to South America (and spending their money there) because they don’t feel like working.

[Charles4515]

13 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I assume you are not so naive to believe that the credit card insurance is not without various clauses.  I have previously collected from credit card insurance (for a major trip interruption situation) but the circumstances were very clear and cleared every roadblock that the claims examiner tried to use as an excuse not to approve the claim (which was ultimately paid off at $10,000). 

 

I use the credit card insurance for domestic flights. Before covid I was frequently flying domestic for non cruise reasons. For cruises I have been buying third party insurance.. 

[urbanhawk]

I've been following this thread since it was posted on Monday. There have been many opinions/info provided, some hypothesis, etc. We don't know where the O.P. is flying from or to. Someone suggested flying to Barcelona?  I'm surprised that the O.P. hasn't chimed in, since starting this thread. Am I missing something? Thoughts?  (I'm not trying to come across as being snarky-just curious). Thanks.

[mom says]

9 minutes ago, urbanhawk said:

I've been following this thread since it was posted on Monday. There have been many opinions/info provided, some hypothesis, etc. We don't know where the O.P. is flying from or to. Someone suggested flying to Barcelona?  I'm surprised that the O.P. hasn't chimed in, since starting this thread. Am I missing something? Thoughts?  (I'm not trying to come across as being snarky-just curious). Thanks.

It's not rocket science. Just click on the OPs name and look at their posting history. She is from Pennsylvania and is on the June 1 HAL cruise out of Barcelona. Voila.

[Charles4515]

24 minutes ago, mom says said:

It's not rocket science. Just click on the OPs name and look at their posting history. She is from Pennsylvania and is on the June 1 HAL cruise out of Barcelona. Voila.

 

And she probably is flying from Philadelphia since she lives in that area.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Charles4515

[gailellen12]

All of you nailed it. Good detective work. I am flying out of Philly on a direct flight that arrives in Barcelona early am the day of my cruise. . I cannot fly out earlier because of work obligations and this is the cruise I want to do and it is going the week of my only vacation. There it is in a nutshell. Thanks for all the discussion. It was very 🤔 

[SmoothFlying]

21 minutes ago, gailellen12 said:

All of you nailed it. Good detective work. I am flying out of Philly on a direct flight that arrives in Barcelona early am the day of my cruise. . I cannot fly out earlier because of work obligations and this is the cruise I want to do and it is going the week of my only vacation. There it is in a nutshell. Thanks for all the discussion. It was very 🤔 

Good luck and have a SAFE and wonderful cruise. I'm retired but understand about 'work ALWAYS comes first'.

 

Mac

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

You could say that about everything in the world. I don't really need to think about it.
..

Sure...but they could also get hit by a truck on the way to the airport. At some point you can't account for every little risk. 

Of course - but it is simply stupid to not take reasonable precautions against current risk — little or otherwise - no matter how many miles you might have flown in the past.

[ontheweb]

35 minutes ago, gailellen12 said:

All of you nailed it. Good detective work. I am flying out of Philly on a direct flight that arrives in Barcelona early am the day of my cruise. . I cannot fly out earlier because of work obligations and this is the cruise I want to do and it is going the week of my only vacation. There it is in a nutshell. Thanks for all the discussion. It was very 🤔 

And you will make it in plenty of time for your cruise. Do not let any negative vibes from this thread stop you.

 

We flew in twice to Barcelona (from Newark) on the day of the cruise. No problems whatsoever. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

And you will make it in plenty of time for your cruise. Do not let any negative vibes from this thread stop you.

 

We flew in twice to Barcelona (from Newark) on the day of the cruise. No problems whatsoever. 

Is this a guarantee?

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Is this a guarantee?

No, of course I am in no position to make a guarantee, but I do think the OP should fly with positive feelings instead of dread.

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, ontheweb said:

No, of course I am in no position to make a guarantee, but I do think the OP should fly with positive feelings instead of dread.

Of course one should always think positively (but also have  a Plan B).

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

They keep using that excuse. What a surprise that there was a spring break again this year. Who would have thought it. They just overbook in hopes people don’t show up. 

 

I’m more inclined to believe they have too few workers to support more flights. Too many people in this country profited from covid government handouts to feel like working now. We met a young couple at the airport who are on a year-long honeymoon just traveling to South America (and spending their money there) because they don’t feel like working.

I am no big fan of domestic airlines.  That being said, as a licensed private pilot I have some knowledge of a huge problem that is plaguing all of the domestic airlines (and many foreign carriers).  When COVID caused the worldwide shut downs along with a big slow down for airline flights there were 10s of thousands of pilots (worldwide) who were laid-off.  When a pilot does not work, they quickly become out of compliance with FAA (and other similar agencies around the world) which require pilots to "keep current" by flying.  When this happens it means when these pilots are called back to work they must recertify (generally on simulators), get their new flight physicals, etc.  Many pilots who were nearing retirement simply retired and became eligible for their pensions rather than sit home (without pay) waiting to be called back to work.   COVID also added to the problem since many pilot training programs were severely curtailed which substantially slowed down the development of new qualified Commercial and ATR pilots.

 

So now, we have a shortage of pilots (both domestically and around the world) and it will take a period of time (measured in years) to train and qualify new/replacement pilots.  The airlines simply do not have enough qualified pilots to handle the old schedules and had to pick and choose which flights to keep.  The maximum monthly flying hours for a commercial pilot in the USA is in the 75-100 hour range.  I believe their is no way that these pilots can fly more than 100 hours in a 30 day period.  So most of the airlines are now having issues because of the pilot shortage and there is not much they can do in the short term.  So with fewer pilots and fewer scheduled flights combined with a new surge in folks flying you get a bad situation.

 

Hank

[SelectSys]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Its somewhat of a myth perpetuated by some on CC.  Many think that you simply call the cruise line (good luck with that) and they will make all the arrangements, get your flights changed, and get you to the ship of the following port.

If true, getting to the next port at no additional cost would be very attractive as last minute travel can be quite expensive.  I can see why people want to believe.  It seems almost too good to be true...

 

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Bottom line is that if you have a cruise give yourself extra time to get to your embarkation port.

In addition to arriving even earlier for flights, I have also changed my departure airport to avoid connections.  As others have stated, each connection is a potential point of failure

[urbanhawk]

2 hours ago, mom says said:

It's not rocket science. Just click on the OPs name and look at their posting history. She is from Pennsylvania and is on the June 1 HAL cruise out of Barcelona. Voila.

I did not know that! Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks🐶!

To the O.P.  Have a fantastic trip!