What happens in quarantine?

[champagnecruiser]

Hi Cathygh !

I am currently on Enchanted. Sorry to hear about your DH.

Hope you are both being looked after.

The theatre was packed yesterday for Jennie Bond talk and Rock Show last night. I didn’t feel very comfortable with that so early out for me!

Wishing you a speedy recovery and safe journey home.

[chengkp75]

54 minutes ago, Cathygh said:

On Enchanted we can open the door but haven't tried to escape..There are other doors that seal off the corridor from communal areas like the lifts. I don't think these are locked.

There is no way to lock a cabin door so that the occupants cannot get out.  The fire screen doors in the passageways cannot be locked.  Passengers cannot be trapped in any space by locked doors and not be able to get to their muster stations in an emergency.  The ship relies on surveillance cameras in the passageways to determine if someone in quarantine is leaving their cabin, and will send security as a response.

[JF - retired RRT]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Are you sure they are locked, not merely closed? Can't the handle be turned to open the door?

 

It seems to me having these locked is a major violation of safety at sea regulations.

One person what was in isolation said that the ship personnel took their "key". Ergo: you could leave the cabin, but couldn't get back in (unless you kept the door from closing). Can't remember is that was Princess.

Edited June 1, 2022 by JF - retired RRT

[Steelers36]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:47 AM, PescadoAmarillo said:

I just updated my blog with a final post about what Ruby Princess quarantine was like in late March and early April.

And now we know the rest of the story..... thanks.  (I had kept the Blog page open for sometime after G was back home and then gave it up figuring you were too wounded to document).

[Cathygh]

1 hour ago, champagnecruiser said:

Hi Cathygh !

I am currently on Enchanted. Sorry to hear about your DH.

Hope you are both being looked after.

The theatre was packed yesterday for Jennie Bond talk and Rock Show last night. I didn’t feel very comfortable with that so early out for me!

Wishing you a speedy recovery and safe journey home.

Thank you for your kind thoughts. We can watch a recording of all the talks on our Tv so we have just watched Jennie Bond. Rock Opera is on there but we can't get it to play. 

We will be home soon and then we can just put this behind us.

 

[Heidi13]

23 hours ago, waltd said:

Just wondering out loud with the recent Carnival ship that caught fire did that ship have anyone in quarantine at the time and was someone there to unlock the fire doors?

 

The fire screen doors are heavy, since they are required to prevent the spread of fire and smoke for at least 1 hour. These doors can NOT be locked. Every space on a ship must have at least 2 means of egress in an emergency.

 

The quarantine cabins may have the FSD's closed, but they are easily opened. The alleyways are monitored by CCTV and if anyone leaves quarantine, Security will notice and deal with the issue.

[PescadoAmarillo]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

And now we know the rest of the story..... thanks.  (I had kept the Blog page open for sometime after G was back home and then gave it up figuring you were too wounded to document).

😉 I was quite ill for several weeks, and then so anxious to return to normal life that I found any and all excuses not to get back to blogging. I was beating myself up though…”must get that done before we start planting annuals!”  Didn’t happen. “Must get that done before this track meet, or that one”. Nope. Once graduation season started there was no hope. But the day after the USAFA graduation, I guess I was inspired by the graduates’ discipline, sat down and just hammered it out in a few hours. 

[PescadoAmarillo]

1 hour ago, JF - retired RRT said:

One person what was in isolation said that the ship personnel took their "key". Ergo: you could leave the cabin, but couldn't get back in (unless you kept the door from closing). Can't remember is that was Princess.

I think that’s right. DH said his first stop after quarantine was Guest Services to either get a new medallion or get his re-activated so he could get back into his cabin. 
 

Certainly, muster and evacuation situations should have been covered for quarantinees, in writing and verbally. I mean, the largest single activity on embarkation day is muster training. But it’s just the most important item of the many about which communication was lacking. However, in terms of “escaping” quarantine, without a working medallion, where would you go?  You’d have to land somewhere. As the saying goes, you can run (or maybe not, with COVID) but you can’t hide. 

[Heidi13]

29 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I think that’s right. DH said his first stop after quarantine was Guest Services to either get a new medallion or get his re-activated so he could get back into his cabin. 
 

Certainly, muster and evacuation situations should have been covered for quarantinees, in writing and verbally. I mean, the largest single activity on embarkation day is muster training. But it’s just the most important item of the many about which communication was lacking. However, in terms of “escaping” quarantine, without a working medallion, where would you go?  You’d have to land somewhere. As the saying goes, you can run (or maybe not, with COVID) but you can’t hide. 

 

Those that paid attention during the boarding Muster Drill would be well aware that your Assembly Station is included on the back of the cabin door.

 

Being assigned a quarantine cabin, is no different to changing cabins during a cruise. You follow what is posted on the back of the new cabin door. 

[PescadoAmarillo]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

Being assigned a quarantine cabin, is no different to changing cabins during a cruise. You follow what is posted on the back of the new cabin door. 

Very true.  However, the letters that quarantined guests received specifically  mentioned there would be information forthcoming about evacuations and safety. Certainly, in an abandon ship situation, there is no doubt that anyone thinking clearly would follow the instructions on the back of the door.  But what about a situation where guests were held in their muster locations until a situation was resolved or required further action?  Would Princess want quarantined guests mingling amongst everyone else? 
 

Realistically, I can’t imagine it ever happening, but the corporate lawyers sure imagined it might, and that’s why the quarantine letters mentioned that the ship would provide more information.

[ImperialLady]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:06 AM, PescadoAmarillo said:

Totally agree. Here’s the thing…information was promised in writing about drill, safety, etc., but it simply never materialized. The letters that both quarantinees and close contacts received were definitely composed in Santa Clarita. I think they simply figured that unknown specifics would be added on the ships. But on the Ruby Princess, they never were.
 

I have photos of all the correspondence we received on the Ruby in my blog post at http://pescadoamarillo.blogspot.com/2022/05/what-really-happened-to-us-on-ruby.html. At least my husband (as the quarantined party) did get a standard letter from the HGM (the only way we knew we could order something from besides the standard room service menu, which would have gotten old after one day). He was also promised a Guest Services teammate who would be in touch once or twice a day  “for anything and everything”.  That never once happened. If a phone was disabled and couldn’t call Guest Services (as someone reported theirs was), you’d really be out of luck. 

I am reading your blog post (thank you ) I am at this point "The senior doctor confirmed that quarantine was just that - isolation- and unless medically necessary guests were not medically checked out (how would they know?  They’re old and alone, and Princess was counting on them to self monitor?). and I am sitting here in tears....anyone who has lost an older loved one will understand the pain. I don't know who makes the rules regarding covid isolation for Princess but that person has no soul!😢

[dog]

13 minutes ago, ImperialLady said:

I am reading your blog post (thank you ) I am at this point "The senior doctor confirmed that quarantine was just that - isolation- and unless medically necessary guests were not medically checked out (how would they know?  They’re old and alone, and Princess was counting on them to self monitor?). and I am sitting here in tears....anyone who has lost an older loved one will understand the pain. I don't know who makes the rules regarding covid isolation for Princess but that person has no soul!😢

This is sad. A good reason to travel with someone or if silo, connect with others through meet & greets to check in on each other.  No one should be alone.

[voljeep]

8 minutes ago, dog said:

No one should be alone.

AGREED...

[ImperialLady]

11 minutes ago, dog said:

This is sad. A good reason to travel with someone or if silo, connect with others through meet & greets to check in on each other.  No one should be alone.

I agree 

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

 

Realistically, I can’t imagine it ever happening, but the corporate lawyers sure imagined it might, and that’s why the quarantine letters mentioned that the ship would provide more information.

Yes, the HQ medical head and the lawyers wrote all the right things and flowery language at times, but it looks like no one ever bothered how to execute the promises made in the formal letters and probably never instructed the ship what to do (notwithstanding the already under-staffed ships).  You might think the legal beagles would be concerned if the promises were not delivered on, but I suppose they figured they could fake it and skate by.

 

[MsSoCalCruiser]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Those that paid attention during the boarding Muster Drill would be well aware that your Assembly Station is included on the back of the cabin door.

 

Being assigned a quarantine cabin, is no different to changing cabins during a cruise. You follow what is posted on the back of the new cabin door. 

Those that are well aware of Covid would probably understand that they don’t want you showing up around others if you are Covid positive.  They would or should have a different assembly station for Covid positive passengers.  

[MsSoCalCruiser]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:44 AM, PescadoAmarillo said:

No, there are at least two of us. I finally updated my blog and doing that managed to irritate me all over again (maybe that’s why I had been putting that off).
 

Most people say that we can’t blame Princess for people catching COVID, but, in our case, we kind of can, to some extent. They dropped the protective COVID protocols we were counting on when we booked and that’s when the problems really started. The inadequate quarantine support just added insult to injury.  

I just finished reading your blog. I’m not sure if you remember or not but I tested positive the day after my cruise. I thought that I would have been better off on the ship in quarantine because there was no one at home with me at that time. You know how hard it is to make yourself eat and drink when you are sick.  Well, after reading your blog I am thankful that I was at home. I’m sorry that you and your husband went through all of that.  That’s just terrible.  That’s not how it should be and that’s not how we were told it would be.  I hope you fully recover soon. Thank you so much for sharing what happened to you both.

[dockman]

41 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Yes, the HQ medical head and the lawyers wrote all the right things and flowery language at times, but it looks like no one ever bothered how to execute the promises made in the formal letters and probably never instructed the ship what to do (notwithstanding the already under-staffed ships).  You might think the legal beagles would be concerned if the promises were not delivered on, but I suppose they figured they could fake it and skate by.

 

The first cruise covid crisis was the Diamond princess feb 2 2020.  That was 2 years and 4 months ago. Obviously we have all learned a lot about covid during that time.  While it has certainly been a changing dynamic regarding mitigation and containment I would think that Princess and other cruise lines would have a competent team that would develop and monitor protocols for their ships crew and passengers on  a constant basis adjusting as necessary based on facts.  I would think that a guideline would be provided to all ships in the fleet from corporate headquarters medical and legal teams. I would think each ship would be given printed protocols including detailed plans and procedures as to how and when various protocols would be recommended or required.  I would think corporate would distribute printed protocols along with detailed FAQS to be given to passengers on board.

 

However having lived through quarantine and a rather serious covid outbreak on Emerald and then reading a variety of other passengers stories /experiences on other princess ships it does not seem to me that there is a consistent message coming out of corporate,  As a result you have a mish mash of conflicting or no printed info being given to passengers.  Mask mandates seem to come and go at the whim of each ship being required on one sailing and then dropped to recommended on the next sailing.  Passengers are sometimes moved into quarantine floors and other times not.    Some (like me) never received a single piece of paper while in quarantine with detailed information on what I could expect regarding quarantine, procedures for back to back cruises when testing positive, procedures for disembarking while still positive, flight changes, hotel accommodations, room service ,close contacts, etc etc...all of those details that a quarantine passenger  is going to sit and wonder and worry about.

 

Again I realize it is a changing dynamic but I do not think Princess corporate has done a very credible job of planning and being ready to deal with the issues.  It is not like covid just popped up yesterday and said SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE or that it takes a rocket scientist to know that infected passengers are going to have a lot of questions that need to be thought out and prepared for before the ship sails.  There should be a plan A based on x criteria. a plan B based on other criteria etc.  Each plan should include detailed information along with printed information for passengers as to how each will be handled by Princess rather than letting passengers sit and worry.

 

There is a reason that senior execs are generally well compensated so perhaps a bit more time in the office planning, checking and rechecking, consulting with ship captains,hotel managers,.medical teams, CDC,  etc and a little less time at lunch or on the golf course would be appropriate.

Edited June 1, 2022 by dockman

[voljeep]

6 minutes ago, dockman said:

The first cruise covid crisis was the Diamond princess feb 2 2020.  That was 2 years and 4 months ago. Obviously we have all learned a lot about covid during that time.  While it has certainly been a changing dynamic regarding mitigation and containment I would think that Princess and other cruise lines would have a competent team that would develop and monitor protocols for their ships crew and passengers on  a constant basis adjusting as necessary based on facts.  I would think that a guideline would be provided to all ships in the fleet from corporate headquarters medical and legal teams. I would think each ship would be given printed protocols including detailed plans and procedures as to how and when various protocols would be recommended or required.  I would think corporate would distribute printed protocols along with detailed FAQS to be given to passengers on board.

 

However having lived through quarantine and a rather serious covid outbreak on Emerald and then reading a variety of other passengers stories /experiences on other princess ships it does not seem to me that there is a consistent message coming out of corporate,  As a result you have a mish mash of conflicting or no printed info being given to passengers.  Mask mandates seem to come and go at the whim of each ship being required on one sailing and then dropped to recommended on the next sailing.  Passengers are sometimes moved into quarantine floors and other times not.    Some (like me) never received a single piece of paper while in quarantine with detailed information on what I could expect regarding quarantine, procedures for back to back cruises when testing positive, procedures for disembarking while still positive, flight changes, hotel accommodations, room service ,close contacts, etc etc...all of those details that a quarantine passenger  is going to sit and wonder and worry about.

 

Again I realize it is a changing dynamic but I do not think Princess corporate has done a very credible job of planning and being ready to deal with the issues.  It is not like covid just popped up yesterday and said SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE or that it takes a rocket scientist to know that infected passengers are going to have a lot of questions that need to be thought out and prepared for before the ship sails.  There should be a plan A based on x criteria. a plan B based on other criteria etc.  Each plan should include detailed information along with printed information for passengers as to how each will be handled by Princess rather than letting passengers sit and worry.

 

There is a reason that senior execs are generally well compensated so perhaps a bit more time in the office planning, checking and rechecking, consulting with ship captains,hotel managers,.medical teams, CDC,  etc and a little less time at lunch or on the golf course would be appropriate.

Big Boy answer coming - stop here if you ...

 

Lawyers and Lawsuits - follow a "paper" trail ... no paper, it didn't happen and "we" didn't promise that it would. Fluid ... 

[jwattle]

1 hour ago, MsSoCalCruiser said:

Those that are well aware of Covid would probably understand that they don’t want you showing up around others if you are Covid positive.  They would or should have a different assembly station for Covid positive passengers.  

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but if they're at a point of evacuating the ship, I think that Covid mixing with non will be low on the list of concern...just my thought...😉

[dog]

4 minutes ago, jwattle said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but if they're at a point of evacuating the ship, I think that Covid mixing with non will be low on the list of concern...just my thought...😉

Yes, unfortunately it may take a disaster to bring about a change in ways things are done fleetwise.

made me think about that ship sinking off the coast of Italy, then Muster Drill became a priority.

we need to push for answers before being escorted to quarantine cabins.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

Very true.  However, the letters that quarantined guests received specifically  mentioned there would be information forthcoming about evacuations and safety. Certainly, in an abandon ship situation, there is no doubt that anyone thinking clearly would follow the instructions on the back of the door.  But what about a situation where guests were held in their muster locations until a situation was resolved or required further action?  Would Princess want quarantined guests mingling amongst everyone else? 
 

Realistically, I can’t imagine it ever happening, but the corporate lawyers sure imagined it might, and that’s why the quarantine letters mentioned that the ship would provide more information.

 

An "Abandon Ship" situation is not the same as the Master sounding the General Emergency Signal (at least 7 short + 1 long), which is the signal for pax to proceed to the Assembly Stations, as noted on the back of the cabin door.

 

This is not Abandon Ship. Abandon Ship has no signal and is only by the verbal command of the Master. It is also a very last resort, as the ship is considered as the best lifeboat. In most cruise ship emergencies, all pax will be at the Assembly Stations, well before the Master issued the Abandon Ship command.

 

Pax can be at Assembly Stations for many hours - Star Princess fire, if memory is correct, it was about 7 hrs and on Viking Star about an entire day. Can't comment on the current Princess procedures as they have changed since I last had a copy, but any shipboard emergency trumps other issues. The Master's primary concern is for the immediate safety of the ship and her pax & crew. The crew are also fully tasked in dealing with the emergency, so probably not many, if any available to manage quarantine. One would also hope that infected pax would accept some responsibility and endeavour to social distance, as much as possible in a crowded Assembly Station.

 

The ISM Code also provides the Master with overriding authority to take any action to ensure the safety of the ship, her pax/crew and protection of the marine environment. So, anything provided by the cruise line is not binding on the Master in an emergency, if in the Master's professional judgement, it would jeopardise safety. 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, MsSoCalCruiser said:

Those that are well aware of Covid would probably understand that they don’t want you showing up around others if you are Covid positive.  They would or should have a different assembly station for Covid positive passengers.  

 

They can't just create new Assembly Stations, as they have requirements for fire protection, space, access to the Survival Craft, signage, etc. The Assembly Stations must also be certified by Flag/Class, listing the max capacity. Lots of other reasons.

[chengkp75]

55 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

An "Abandon Ship" situation is not the same as the Master sounding the General Emergency Signal (at least 7 short + 1 long), which is the signal for pax to proceed to the Assembly Stations, as noted on the back of the cabin door.

Well said, Andy.  Many people confuse the Muster signal with abandon ship, thinking that as soon as the alarm sounds, they will be getting in boats and sailing away.  This is far from the truth, as you know.  As you rightly state, the signal that passengers equate with the Muster, is the signal for "Fire and General Emergency" which sends the crew to deal with the emergency, and gets the passengers accounted for in known, controlled locations.  As you said, the proper thing for a Captain to do is to sound the "Muster" signal as soon as the situation warrants it, long before any thought of abandoning the ship is made.

 

My suspicion is that the quarantine cabins are all in one, or at most two, muster stations, by themselves, so that they can be segregated.  In an actual emergency, I also suspect that the "special needs team" which are tasked with escorting those with disabilities to the muster, will be augmented by other crew who will set up teams to escort the quarantined passengers, and crew, to their muster stations.  The passageway guides will also be directing traffic around the quarantine areas, and the closed fire screen doors.  We always had about 100-150 crew whose emergency duty was "proceed to muster station, assist as directed" and were used as general dogsbodies wherever needed.

Edited June 1, 2022 by chengkp75

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

An "Abandon Ship" situation is not the same as the Master sounding the General Emergency Signal (at least 7 short + 1 long), which is the signal for pax to proceed to the Assembly Stations, as noted on the back of the cabin door.

 

This is not Abandon Ship. Abandon Ship has no signal and is only by the verbal command of the Master. It is also a very last resort, as the ship is considered as the best lifeboat. In most cruise ship emergencies, all pax will be at the Assembly Stations, well before the Master issued the Abandon Ship command.

 

Pax can be at Assembly Stations for many hours - Star Princess fire, if memory is correct, it was about 7 hrs and on Viking Star about an entire day. Can't comment on the current Princess procedures as they have changed since I last had a copy, but any shipboard emergency trumps other issues. The Master's primary concern is for the immediate safety of the ship and her pax & crew. The crew are also fully tasked in dealing with the emergency, so probably not many, if any available to manage quarantine. One would also hope that infected pax would accept some responsibility and endeavour to social distance, as much as possible in a crowded Assembly Station.

 

The ISM Code also provides the Master with overriding authority to take any action to ensure the safety of the ship, her pax/crew and protection of the marine environment. So, anything provided by the cruise line is not binding on the Master in an emergency, if in the Master's professional judgement, it would jeopardise safety. 

Can you imagine the reaction to the announcement, please report to your muster station and wear a mask as there will be Covid positive passengers among you.?