How much are you willing to let slide?

[mtnesterz]

8 hours ago, Thrak said:

When a "marketing professional" is in charge what do you expect?

What you get is the cruise line becoming a life support system for the Medallion app.

The additions to Medallion support, the takeaways from the customer experience and loyalty, increased drink prices and most devastating, two years of poor maintenance on the ships, as we're seeing with the Crown. A ship operating with two of six generators (reportedly) not working.

Princess is in the hospitality industry true, but also in the transporation industry. I cannot imagine any airline, bus, or train tolerating such poor maintenance. Everyone here has been focused on the customer experience, but this is my peeve. Padgett and the app should go!

[tetleytea]

MHO Medallion, in principle, is fine, but there are implementation issues.  Most often in the IT field if you have a recurring problem, it's neither a software nor a hardware problem at all--it's a people problem.  Princess is probably struggling to staff the IT which runs the app, but even more than that, I'll venture to guess that IT and the rest of the company operations are not interfacing that well.   You have to interface with Guest Services to make Crewcall chat work.  You have to interface with Dining services to make Dining Reservations work.  and so on....   For that matter, Marketing probably has to stamp their approval on everything before any IT person gets permission to go to the bathroom.

 

[nini]

6 hours ago, JeffroK said:

I was bored so has a read through the thread, apart from the problems with the Crown Princess and Customer Relations failures there seems to be a lot of 1st World problems.

People who have had 10's of cruises seem to have the expectation that nothing changes, even without Covid the world keeps moving.

Suggestions that Princess/CCL are behaving like a Corporation and out to maximize profit seems to be complaining about the reason for their existence, not to run at part capacity and make a loss on each cruise. Imagine what they have lost over the last 3 years, and what hurdles they have jumped to get ships back in the water so that people like us can restart cruising.

 

I dont want bad service, or cancellations but being close to 3 years since a holiday I can understand that not everything is back to pre-Covid standards

Many of the objections and observations ARE in the control of Princess and their crew.

* Have you ever had a crew member be rude and snap at you? Congenial crew and smiles DO NOT COST MONEY! We were quite shocked by many non-smiling crew members and their proclivity to argue with us. It was just very strange. Thankfully, there were other lovely crew members to make up for that.

@JeffroK- I do not know how many Princess cruises you have been on, however, we have sailed on Princess enough to notice that the Princess Vibe was not on the Emerald. However, it appears that some of the other ships are doing better.

[caribill]

7 hours ago, JeffroK said:

 

I dont want bad service, or cancellations but being close to 3 years since a holiday I can understand that not everything is back to pre-Covid standards

 

Agree, but the cruise line should not pretend that things on board are even better than before the pandemic pause.

 

 

[USCcruisecrazy]

53 minutes ago, nini said:

Many of the objections and observations ARE in the control of Princess and their crew.

* Have you ever had a crew member be rude and snap at you? Congenial crew and smiles DO NOT COST MONEY! We were quite shocked by many non-smiling crew members and their proclivity to argue with us. It was just very strange. Thankfully, there were other lovely crew members to make up for that.

@JeffroK- I do not know how many Princess cruises you have been on, however, we have sailed on Princess enough to notice that the Princess Vibe was not on the Emerald. However, it appears that some of the other ships are doing better.

Just had to ask...if the crew were non-smiling does that mean they were not wearing masks?  I thought all crew kept masks on at all times.  Of course, that could also explain some of the perceived attitude. I'd not be happy with a mask on my face for 10-12 hours a day (or more).

[rj59]

2 hours ago, tetleytea said:

MHO Medallion, in principle, is fine, but there are implementation issues.  Most often in the IT field if you have a recurring problem, it's neither a software nor a hardware problem at all--it's a people problem.  Princess is probably struggling to staff the IT which runs the app, but even more than that, I'll venture to guess that IT and the rest of the company operations are not interfacing that well.   You have to interface with Guest Services to make Crewcall chat work.  You have to interface with Dining services to make Dining Reservations work.  and so on....   For that matter, Marketing probably has to stamp their approval on everything before any IT person gets permission to go to the bathroom.

 

The problem I see with OM is that it simply tries to do too much, including games and gambling, instead of doing the most important things well, like scheduling meals or ordering food, or even something as basic as confirming a boarding group on my iphone--the button doesn't fit on my screen so I have to use an ipad, just as I have to use the tv to book a meal or order food. They also are trying to appeal to the tech savvy when many of their passengers aren't, so very little of the app passes the Mom Test--could your Mom use it easily? The IT people who designed it haven't been on a HAL or Princess cruise on embarkation day, when there are long lines of people unable to figure out how to connect to internet and/or ship wifi--many have no clue about airplane mode, what a QR code is and how to scan one, or how to change time zones manually on a phone. Having to try to find competent IT people and developers is difficult when most talented people can go to tech companies that could make them millionaires through stock options, which will never happen with Carnival lines. OM just fails with the basics of any app--it's ugly, slow, fails often, confusing, and has the poor usability of a bad app that's was rushed out without basic testing to make sure it's user-friendly--did anyone actually try checking a daily schedule on a phone? 

The gold standard for me is the Royal C. app, which is easy to use, prints large menus and daily schedules, has a quick safety video, and has a simple, quick, streamlined boarding. 

[startedwithamouse]

2 hours ago, nini said:

Many of the objections and observations ARE in the control of Princess and their crew.

* Have you ever had a crew member be rude and snap at you? Congenial crew and smiles DO NOT COST MONEY! We were quite shocked by many non-smiling crew members and their proclivity to argue with us. It was just very strange. Thankfully, there were other lovely crew members to make up for that.

@JeffroK- I do not know how many Princess cruises you have been on, however, we have sailed on Princess enough to notice that the Princess Vibe was not on the Emerald. However, it appears that some of the other ships are doing better.

Crew wear KN95 masks at all times. 🤔

[nini]

1 hour ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Just had to ask...if the crew were non-smiling does that mean they were not wearing masks?  I thought all crew kept masks on at all times.  Of course, that could also explain some of the perceived attitude. I'd not be happy with a mask on my face for 10-12 hours a day (or more).

Yes, they were wearing masks but it does not take an Einstein to read the remaining/ visible facial features and expressions as well to hear their words and tone of voice.

You are ignoring the point.

[nini]

11 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

Crew wear KN95 masks at all times. 🤔

Yes, they were wearing masks but it does not take an Einstein to read the remaining/ visible facial features and expressions as well to hear their words and tone of voice.

You are ignoring the point.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, nini said:

Many of the objections and observations ARE in the control of Princess and their crew.

* Have you ever had a crew member be rude and snap at you? Congenial crew and smiles DO NOT COST MONEY! We were quite shocked by many non-smiling crew members and their proclivity to argue with us. It was just very strange. Thankfully, there were other lovely crew members to make up for that.

@JeffroK- I do not know how many Princess cruises you have been on, however, we have sailed on Princess enough to notice that the Princess Vibe was not on the Emerald. However, it appears that some of the other ships are doing better.

I gave seen a far more passengers be rude to crew members, that crew members to passengers.

[USCcruisecrazy]

3 minutes ago, nini said:

Yes, they were wearing masks but it does not take an Einstein to read the remaining/ visible facial features and expressions as well to hear their words and tone of voice.

You are ignoring the point.

Actually, I wasn't ignoring the point at all.  Asked a simple question...only required a simple answer.  But, like you assumed they were not smiling, you then assumed I was ignoring whatever point you were trying to make. Personally have never had a Princess crew member treat me that way.  Maybe because of the way I smiled and treated them.  But that's another story. 

[c-boy]

 " Maybe because of the way I smiled and treated them. "

 

Karma 👍

[tetleytea]

1 hour ago, nini said:

Yes, they were wearing masks but it does not take an Einstein to read the remaining/ visible facial features and expressions as well to hear their words and tone of voice.

You are ignoring the point.

 

Maybe, but some of us are utterly socially inept.  Says my DW who constantly reminds me when my fly is down before I leave the cabin.

[caribill]

3 hours ago, rj59 said:

Having to try to find competent IT people and developers is difficult when most talented people can go to tech companies that could make them millionaires through stock options, which will never happen with Carnival lines.

 

I believe that the app has been contracted to outsiders for development, not being done (or well supervised) by Princess employees.

[suzyed]

20 hours ago, geoherb said:

 

One of the things people agree to in the passage contract is to waive the ability to join a class action lawsuit. Each lawsuit, or arbitration, has to be undertaken individually.

Do you think we need a maritime attorney?

 

[Riley_Mon]

I would like to think the passenger bill of rights adds some weight to this in the case of the crown. It’s written in the spirit to say that you are entitled to compensation if mechanical issues force your cruise to be cut short. In the case of the crown it meets the physical number of days but by their own admission mechanical issues have forced the itinerary to be drastically changed which I believe is the same thing and that includes not even meeting the altered schedule.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Riley_Mon

[insidecabin]

14 hours ago, tetleytea said:

MHO Medallion, in principle, is fine, but there are implementation issues.  Most often in the IT field if you have a recurring problem, it's neither a software nor a hardware problem at all--it's a people problem.  Princess is probably struggling to staff the IT which runs the app, but even more than that, I'll venture to guess that IT and the rest of the company operations are not interfacing that well.   You have to interface with Guest Services to make Crewcall chat work.  You have to interface with Dining services to make Dining Reservations work.  and so on....   For that matter, Marketing probably has to stamp their approval on everything before any IT person gets permission to go to the bathroom.

 

Nearly all major issues go back to poor management, specifications (lack of) and  failures in process(QA).

 

The recent feature of uploading docs, only allowing images and not .pdf is a good example of a fail.

 

Should have been included at the feature design phase or picked up by the QA process at that step.

[caribill]

23 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

Nearly all major issues go back to poor management, specifications (lack of) and  failures in process(QA).

 

 

 

When a project is contracted out, the people executing it likely will have no practical experience in the industry the project is for.

 

As a result, no matter how good the specs (and especially with poor specs), they do not recognize the nuances in what is being implemented from a practical real-world viewpoint.

 

Example: For Dining My Way, there is no way to know when the table you have reserved for a specific time will actually be available (except when the dining room first opens) as there is no way to forecast the actual speed of service, number of courses ordered and pace of eating for the people sitting at "your" table. As a result, even if you have reserved a table in the same dining room at the same time each evening, you may be led to a different table each night. Instead of just showing up at the reserved time and going right in to your table, each evening you must line up with everyone else and be led to a table actually available when you reach the front of the line. Not really efficient.

 

In my working life when I complained to a contractor that a person assigned to a project had no practical subject matter experience and thus would be unlikely to produce a working software product , the response was not "OK, we will assign a more experienced person to the project." It instead was "How much less are you willing to pay for this person to let him stay on the project?"

 

I doubt many of the contract personnel working on the app have ever been on a cruise ship.

[Roberto256]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

When a project is contracted out, the people executing it likely will have no practical experience in the industry the project is for.

 

 

But, they think they  are great!

 

https://www.accenture.com/nz-en/case-studies/travel/carnival-cruise

 

[insidecabin]

3 hours ago, caribill said:

 

When a project is contracted out, the people executing it likely will have no practical experience in the industry the project is for.

 

As a result, no matter how good the specs (and especially with poor specs), they do not recognize the nuances in what is being implemented from a practical real-world viewpoint.

 

Example: For Dining My Way, there is no way to know when the table you have reserved for a specific time will actually be available (except when the dining room first opens) as there is no way to forecast the actual speed of service, number of courses ordered and pace of eating for the people sitting at "your" table. As a result, even if you have reserved a table in the same dining room at the same time each evening, you may be led to a different table each night. Instead of just showing up at the reserved time and going right in to your table, each evening you must line up with everyone else and be led to a table actually available when you reach the front of the line. Not really efficient.

 

In my working life when I complained to a contractor that a person assigned to a project had no practical subject matter experience and thus would be unlikely to produce a working software product , the response was not "OK, we will assign a more experienced person to the project." It instead was "How much less are you willing to pay for this person to let him stay on the project?"

 

I doubt many of the contract personnel working on the app have ever been on a cruise ship.

 

Suspect most execs have never been on a ship as a regular passenger 

 

We would alway have "our people" on the projects to oversee, often on site in the less reliable countries where the contractor could be working on multiple projects for different clients.

 

Dine my way is not an app issue the core feature is flawed as dining room capacity can't meet passenger expectations (as sold) along with poor implementation on the ships.

 

Table allocation is an on ship function as that is when they know staffing levels and what requests are in the system.

 

For the passenger eat a bit later can work we have had the same table all cruise 8pm(not booked just an at dining room request)

Tonight(formal) is the test as dinner tends to run longer, down to when they use the table first.

Got to trust the matre d does not mess up I think it has been close a couple of nights.

 

The other issue for cruise lines going down the fully flexible route, to do it well needs more crew.

 

 

The bigger problem with contracting out without good terms and well specified deliverables(function and performance like speed and size) is there is no incentive to even try to get it right first time.

 

When you outsource multi year with changing/adding features you can get trapped and need big pockets.

 

[insidecabin]

On 6/23/2022 at 1:09 AM, suzyed said:

Not heard that term before but I gather what the meaning is....
So, yes, we are paying "top whack" on the "top Wreck"

I used the term "Stitched up like a kipper" that got a few thinking.

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, caribill said:

 

I believe that the app has been contracted to outsiders for development, not being done (or well supervised) by Princess employees.

But it is Princess, not someone outside of Princess, who keeps advertising it as the greatest innovation ever. They are the ones who have to deal with all the complaints, so it is not as if they can claim ignorance of the many problems it has.

[SargassoPirate]

11 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But it is Princess, not someone outside of Princess, who keeps advertising it as the greatest innovation ever. They are the ones who have to deal with all the complaints, so it is not as if they can claim ignorance of the many problems it has.

 

I have five medallion cruises under my belt.  The app is wonky and if something doesn't work seamlessly after a maximum of two tries I'm done.   Early on (pre covid) I quit the app and just showed at the port with my paperwork.  My post covid cruises haven't been much better with trying to upload my vaccination card etc, so I still just show up at the port with my paperwork.

 

Once I'm on board, I carry my medallion in my pocket and don't try to use the app.  Just because technology is whiz bang doesn't mean it enhances my cruise experience.

 

BTW, I still miss the barrel chairs.

[KKB]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

Once I'm on board, I carry my medallion in my pocket and don't try to use the app.  Just because technology is whiz bang doesn't mean it enhances my cruise experience.

 

 

THIS.

I've enjoyed having the app on other cruises (other lines) but we don't get room service & I'd rather walk up to a bar & get a drink rather than order one & have NO idea when or if it will arrive.

Didn't sail with an app for years...doesn't make or break my cruise.

(didn't sail with a drink package for years. LOVE IT--but cruises were just as fun b4 they came about....)

[tetleytea]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

When a project is contracted out, the people executing it likely will have no practical experience in the industry the project is for.

 

As a result, no matter how good the specs (and especially with poor specs), they do not recognize the nuances in what is being implemented from a practical real-world viewpoint.

 

I'm pretty sure the contractor developed the technology first, and then sought out customers for it second.  That's okay--that's just the way it happens sometimes.  Initially this was probably called something like a supply chain management mobile app with integrated bluetooth location tracking.   Then somebody presented it to Carnival execs, they said, "Great.  Let's use it for this...", and they adapted it to the cruise line to become Medallion app.  Now, a lot of the bluetooth locating is not even bluetooth anymore.