When did the gratituites increase?

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So let me get this right...

 

70 hours/week * 4 weeks = 280 hours/month.

$1200/month / 280 hours/month = $4.29(rounded)/hour.  

 

Yup, that's a significant salary.  

 

Now, something else to ask... how many of you tip the baggage porters at port?  I found this sign while walking off the ship at PC last week:

 

You are looking at the salary through North American eyes. 
I use the Philippines as an example since there are quite a few crew members from there. Average ANNUAL salary in that country is US $3200. On a 9 month contract a Philippine crew member is guaranteed to make over 3 times the average annual salary in his home country. That IS significant, and is why they return year after year for another contract. 
 

As for your second issue; no, I don’t tip Porters unless they wheel my bags out to my car post cruise. I drop my bags off at the head of the line, where they are dropped right into the cages. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by not-enough-cruising

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

The area with the "suggested tips" is just a cheat-sheet for people who don't know how to figure percentages.  

It's so you know what dollar amount to put on the "Gratuity" line on the merchant copy of the charge slip.

 

But "Gratuity" is already on the bill!  I know what the line is for.  But they've included "Gratuity" (it's just above the total line).  So they included Gratuity AND wanted me to fill in a "Gratuity" line on the charge slip?  

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

The area with the "suggested tips" is just a cheat-sheet for people who don't know how to figure percentages.  

It's so you know what dollar amount to put on the "Gratuity" line on the merchant copy of the charge slip.

 

But “gratuity” was already added automatically. 
 

You completely missed the point. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by not-enough-cruising

[S.A.M.J.R.]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

3 times the average annual salary in his home country. That IS significant, and is why they return year after year for another contract. 

So we should compare what people make in their home country?  People put a LOT more thought in this than is needed IMO.  Again, this rate increase would have made a $72 difference in my cruise cost for an eight day cruise.  For a $9000 cruise.  Less than 1%.  Seems much ado about nothing.

 

As far as the "boiling frog/lobster", when I figure out where we want to go on vacation, I try to look at ALL the costs.  If it's too much, we don't go.  An extra $72 wouldn't even cause me to blink twice. 

[brillohead]

3 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

But "Gratuity" is already on the bill!  I know what the line is for.  But they've included "Gratuity" (it's just above the total line).  So they included Gratuity AND wanted me to fill in a "Gratuity" line on the charge slip?  

 

2 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

But “gratuity” was already added automatically 

My bad... I didn't see the gratuity on the ticket, I (very wrongly) assumed that you were talking about the blank gratuity line on the credit card slip that you sign.  

Looks like that restaurant automatically adds on gratuity on parties of six or more, and the "suggested" box is something that prints on every ticket, even if gratuity was already tacked on.  Looks like their POS provider uses the same computer programmers that Royal's IT department uses!  LOL

[S.A.M.J.R.]

Just now, brillohead said:

Looks like that restaurant automatically adds on gratuity on parties of six or more, and the "suggested" box is something that prints on every ticket, even if gratuity was already tacked on.

I could understand that except the server circled the suggested box (notice the orange pen).  They should know if a large party (six?) automatically gets a gratuity added. 

 

Left a bad feeling in my mouth. 

[brillohead]

As for restaurants that automatically put an 18% gratuity on the bill, I never tip beyond that, because I figure they've already decided what should be charged and that's what they're left with.  Which is a shame, because if the meal was delivered properly (right items, cold things cold, warm things warm) and if my glass was never empty, I tend to tip in the 20%-25% range, so the server loses out if they put it on the bill for me.  

 

[brillohead]

1 minute ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I could understand that except the server circled the suggested box (notice the orange pen).  They should know if a large party (six?) automatically gets a gratuity added. 

 

Left a bad feeling in my mouth. 

It could just be such an automatic thing for them to do that they don't even clock whether the gratuity was auto-added or not.  (I'm sure their system does it without any intentional input from the server -- the system sees the # of guests on the ticket and just charges it without the server needing to do anything about it.) 

I agree, if it was something the server did KNOWING that it had already charged a gratuity, that was tacky.  But it was probably as automatic to them as brushing their teeth in the morning.  

Regardless, I still wouldn't have left anything extra.... you add it on for me, I don't give you any extra!

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So we should compare what people make in their home country?  People put a LOT more thought in this than is needed IMO.  Again, this rate increase would have made a $72 difference in my cruise cost for an eight day cruise.  For a $9000 cruise.  Less than 1%.  Seems much ado about nothing.

 

As far as the "boiling frog/lobster", when I figure out where we want to go on vacation, I try to look at ALL the costs.  If it's too much, we don't go.  An extra $72 wouldn't even cause me to blink twice. 

Of course you have to look at the economic environment of the “home country”, to debunk the narrative that the crew are being paid slave wages, and by not participating in the auto gratuity you are screwing over the behind the scenes worker. 
 

I do agree that far too much energy is spent on this topic. Everyone should do what they are comfortable with, with no fear of judgement. 
 

The main complaint, as I see it, and has been expressed quite often here; is the lack of formal communication on the change. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Of course you have to look at the economic environment of the “home country”, to debunk the narrative that the crew are being paid slave wages, and by not participating in the auto gratuity you are screwing over the behind the scenes worker. 
 

I do agree that far too much energy is spent on this topic. Everyone should do what they are comfortable with, with no fear of judgement. 
 

The main complaint, as I see it, and has been expressed quite often here; is the lack of formal communication on the change. 

I don't know how to break up the quote... but while I don't think the crew are paid slave wages, I do feel they are underpaid for the amount of work they do.  Therefore, I give them a little more.  Unless someone has seen the actual detailed financials of Royal, I don't think anyone here can say whether Royal is pocketing some or all of the auto gratuity money or if it's going to the crew (and which crew).  Maybe Royal IS pocketing the money BUT they give their employees more money because of it.  If someone drops the auto tips, maybe Royal makes it up... therefore the crew doesn't really see a difference in their paycheck.  

 

I agree Royal should have done a better job communicating.  As I've said elsewhere, if you don't like the way a company does business, stop doing business with them.  

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

As for restaurants that automatically put an 18% gratuity on the bill, I never tip beyond that, because I figure they've already decided what should be charged and that's what they're left with. 

And yet, when RCI does exactly the same thing on the ship……….

[yogimax]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You are looking at the salary through North American eyes. 
I use the Philippines as an example since there are quite a few crew members from there. Average ANNUAL salary in that country is US $3200. On a 9 month contract a Philippine crew member is guaranteed to make over 3 times the average annual salary in his home country. That IS significant, and is why they return year after year for another contract. 
 

As for your second issue; no, I don’t tip Porters unless they wheel my bags out to my car post cruise. I drop my bags off at the head of the line, where they are dropped right into the cages. 

There you go again... same false argument every time.

 

During COVID our Queens hospitals were overwhelmed.  We were blessed that many, many nurses from the Philippines filled in the staffing gaps.  So you would argue that they should be paid what the salary for nurses was in Philippines?  I would hope not.

 

Same goes for Philippino workers on cruise ships.  They are NOT working in the Philippines.  They are working for a multinational corporation and should be paid the going rate for the industry where they work.

 

What they would or would not make in their home country it totally irrelevant.

[brillohead]

2 minutes ago, yogimax said:

What they would or would not make in their home country it totally irrelevant.

Especially when you consider that they're working seven days a week, no days off, and they don't get to see their families for the better part of a year.  

Pretty much any job that involves extensive travel / time away from home comes with some form of additional pay, either in overall salary or in per diem pay.  For anyone to claim that workers on cruise ships shouldn't be making more money than they'd make while living at home with their loved ones is just insane, IMO.

[Ocean Boy]

This thread is a perfect testament to how archaic the whole tipping culture is. Employers should pay their employees. Customers should pay for the product the company provides. That would stop these endless threads. Of course, that would probably lead to service like I've encountered in London where servers come around when they get around to it.

[davekathy]

24 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

This thread is a perfect testament to how archaic the whole tipping culture is. Employers should pay their employees. Customers should pay for the product the company provides. That would stop these endless threads. Of course, that would probably lead to service like I've encountered in London where servers come around when they get around to it.

Agree. I have no problem walking out of a restaurant or bar no matter where and not leaving a tip for half-ass or less service. 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, yogimax said:

There you go again... same false argument every time.

 

During COVID our Queens hospitals were overwhelmed.  We were blessed that many, many nurses from the Philippines filled in the staffing gaps.  So you would argue that they should be paid what the salary for nurses was in Philippines?  I would hope not.

 

Same goes for Philippino workers on cruise ships.  They are NOT working in the Philippines.  They are working for a multinational corporation and should be paid the going rate for the industry where they work.

 

What they would or would not make in their home country it totally irrelevant.

New York did NOT import nurses from the Philippines during Covid (not in great numbers) sorry but that’s just patently false.  

The argument you are trying (poorly) to make doesn’t hold water. I never said they should be paid what they make at home. They are being paid TRIPLE, probably the same multiple

the nurses were paid. We had many nurses (my daughter included) from the hospitals I staff in TX, that went to NYC on 90 day assignments for a similar multiple In their salaries. 
 

The only thing you got right is the crew should be paid the going rate for the industry in which they are employed; and they are getting exactly that. They aren’t being paid a paltry sum. 
 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

Especially when you consider that they're working seven days a week, no days off, and they don't get to see their families for the better part of a year.  

Pretty much any job that involves extensive travel / time away from home comes with some form of additional pay, either in overall salary or in per diem pay.  For anyone to claim that workers on cruise ships shouldn't be making more money than they'd make while living at home with their loved ones is just insane, IMO.

No one claims they shouldn’t be paid more than at home. 
They are being paid triple, on average. 

[boscobeans]

Tip nothing

Tip everyone

Tip the suggested amount

Tip a lot more

 

Tipping policy is fair

Tipping policy is unfair 

 

After a few dozen cruises over the years and thousands of threads dealing with this topic, we now tip the required amount and always (there was one exception) go well above and beyond the daily charge.

We tip our bartenders and our drink servers with each drink

We give CASH because it has no calories, and no one is allergic to it.

 

I don't know and don't care how well their earnings compare with workers in the U.S.A., the Philippines or any other country in Asia or Europe.

I do know that of the three crew members that I have had long conversations with they are doing well and live their lives and those of their families above what they would be earning at home, in Panama, the Philippines and in Switzerland.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yogimax]

24 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

New York did NOT import nurses from the Philippines during Covid (not in great numbers) sorry but that’s just patently false.  
 

26.4% of nurses who died from COVID were Filipino despite being only 4% of the total nursing population in the U.S..  Many served in NYC.  Instead of trying to diminish their role in sacrificing to save lives you should be applauding their efforts.  Please contact the Philippine Nurses Association of New York to enlighten your understanding.

 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

7 minutes ago, yogimax said:

26.4% of nurses who died from COVID were Filipino despite being only 4% of the total nursing population in the U.S..  Many served in NYC.  Instead of trying to diminish their role in sacrificing to save lives you should be applauding their efforts.  Please contact the Philippine Nurses Association of New York to enlighten your understanding.

 

 

I am sorry but I will not engage you in this discussion, I feel categorizing any death in the line of duty by nationality to be tasteless.

 

I (and my adult children) have lived our professional lives in medicine, and I will not be accused of diminishing anyone's role in that pursuit.

 

You have allowed your nearsightedness of an economics discussion to take this debate to a point that I can no longer participate. 

 

Good Day, and Happy Cruising.

[yogimax]

17 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I am sorry but I will not engage you in this discussion

Peace to you.

[karena1]

9 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So let me get this right...

 

70 hours/week * 4 weeks = 280 hours/month.

$1200/month / 280 hours/month = $4.29(rounded)/hour.  

 

Yup, that's a significant salary.  

 

Now, something else to ask... how many of you tip the baggage porters at port?  I found this sign while walking off the ship at PC last week:

 

We tip the porters all the time.

 

[LGW59]

Holy moly Batman, it's a good thing I bought some popcorn, I've missed quite a bit since I've been gone!  My take on tipping: always leave the pre-paid grats/tips/service charge on (or whatever they are calling it now) don't be that person who waits on line to have them removed.  Personally I always tip additonal, bartenders, wait staff, housekeeping, steward and butler, I only stay in suites and I always always have had great service from all the crew on-board.  It works for me and I like doing it that way, endo of story for my way of doing it.  Others feel the pre-paids are adequate for the service rendered and that is OK too, after all most lines do advertise tips/grats relax, don't worry, we've got you covered, it is included.  That siad, many IMO pretend it is not in their culture, to which I say save it Sally, your on a ship, away (usually) from your culture, just as in Rome, do as the Romans do.  If you don't want to tip additional that's fine, just please leave the autos there.  Where a crew member lives and how much money they or their family make in said country is absolutely irrelevant and you know it.  We are paying for superalative service, so wheter that person can earn $9000/year or $75000/year is neither here nor there.  Well that i$ my $tory and I am $ticking to it!  

[ONECRUISER]

4 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

This thread is a perfect testament to how archaic the whole tipping culture is. Employers should pay their employees. Customers should pay for the product the company provides. That would stop these endless threads. Of course, that would probably lead to service like I've encountered in London where servers come around when they get around to it.

Might be wrong but I thought Royal and other Lines Pay guaranteed Min, paid more by them if Tips are not certain level. That's what heard directly from Multiple Workers

[coaster]

18 hours ago, karena1 said:

We tip the porters all the time.

 

We do also. Terrible if the luggage tags would mysteriously diapppear.....