Is high tech making a new class system ,I think so .

[cruisemom42]

A lot of these complaints are just noise in the system. Of course I've had restaurants screw up orders, well before the days of computers. Are you trying to say an order NEVER EVER got lost in the kitchen slipped out of that little clip doo-hickey when it was turned in, or came out wrong due to illegible (or incorrect) written notation in the past???

 

This is still fairly new technology. Did you walk perfectly the very first time you tried? Maybe you should've just kept sitting on your chubby little backside and let Momma wheel you around in that sweet buggy for the rest of your life -- if it ain't broke....

 

Here's a thought:  when you learned to walk, you had to deal with some risk (of falling) and errors of direction, but you also suddenly had a much bigger range of choices as to where you could go and what you could get up to. In my opinion, the same is happening with technology. As I said initially, I think we've reached the tipping point where there is a lot of usefulness to be had in using a smart phone while traveling. And for those who don't agree, well -- the passage of time will take care of that.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

22 minutes ago, Keksie said:

I really dislike trying to read a menu on my phone.

 

On my recent Celebrity cruise, it was so dark in the Main Dining Room, and the font size on the dessert menu was so small, that I had to use my smart phone one way or the other -- either to read the menu (backlit and comfortably enlarged) or else using the phone's flashlight feature!

[Mary229]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

On my recent Celebrity cruise, it was so dark in the Main Dining Room, and the font size on the dessert menu was so small, that I had to use my smart phone one way or the other -- either to read the menu (backlit and comfortably enlarged) or else using the phone's flashlight feature!

That or snapping a picture and enlarging.  That I have done numerous times in other settings. 

[Mike981]

In my experience I have met folks who were much older than I and were very tech save. Then I have met folks much younger, that were severely lacking in tech knowledge.

I do feel for those who decide to jump in and move forward with new technology for the first time. There is a lot of perceived knowledge that manufactures assume the customer will have, and if you are starting from scratch it can be very frustrating. And if this person decides to try and do some research online, they better know to filter their search results to the most current information or they will find themselves going in circles.

For those who might not know, on Google right under the search box look for "TOOLS" click it and then on the left side of the page a drop down option called "Any Time" will appear and this will let you sort/filter many ways.

[Charles4515]

6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

That or snapping a picture and enlarging.  That I have done numerous times in other settings. 

I have done that with a lot of the info they sent to the cabin onboard. Like what is in the drink package etc. etc. Another reason to have a smartphone. 

[Charles4515]

3 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

I do feel for those who decide to jump in and move forward with new technology for the first time. There is a lot of perceived knowledge that manufactures assume the customer will have, and if you are starting from scratch

Even not starting from scratch. I have used smartphones for years and besides learning  new features that are added every year I have discovered features that were years old that I did not know about. YouTube is a good place to search for information and how to's.  TiK-Tok somewhat too except there they claim they are posting secrets that Apple of Google don't want tyou to know......

[Mary229]

16 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

do feel for those who decide to jump in and move forward with new technology for the first time. There is a lot of perceived knowledge that manufactures assume the

When I help people I tell them upfront, the phones and tablets are not like old technology.  They are foolproof.  You can’t ruin them.  If you run into a problem turn it off and try again.   I think many people are unnecessarily scared they will download a virus or something.  The best advice there is to keep it updated and buy Apple.  
 

it is just like cars.  I remember traveling with my father on business in the 60s.  It seemed we spent more time fixing the car then driving it and he never had old cars.  Today’s cars are pretty foolproof, just like an Apple phone 

 

[BruceMuzz]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Here is an even worse example of restaurants and the new technology.

 

We like to dine by water on our anniversary. We went to a restaurant where we could eat on a deck by flowing water. We had been at that restaurant before it had moved there and liked it and had been on that deck at a previous restaurant that had been there.

 

We asked for and were seated on the deck. We placed our order which instead of writing on a paper check as waiter and waitresses have done forever the waitress used some new fangled technology that looked like a smartphone. We soon received our salads. And then we WAITED, AND WAITED, AND WAITED. I went into the main section of the restaurant that had been nearly empty when we arrived and saw that there were now several table of people who came after us and had been served. I complained and found out our order had never been put in. I don't know if the waitress was at fault not hitting whatever she had to do to send it in or it was a glitch of some sort. A manager came out and apologized and said we would get our dinners soon. After another wait, we were getting up to leave in disgust when the food finally came, and the manager apologized again and said our meals would be comped. She said they were still working out the kinks in their new system (even though they had been at the new location for about 6-7 months.)

 

Has anyone ever had their order lost when the server wrote in down on PAPER? There is an old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! The next time we ate at a diner was when we were away staying at a motel with a park and ride to the airport so we could catch our morning flight to our cruise. I said to the waitress, I hope you are writing this and told her the story. She just laughed at the absurdity of the new technology. She got a nice extra tip from me.

Some people confuse convenience with extra controls.

There are hundreds of different POS (Point of Sale)Systems out there.

Nearly all of them are a variation on the waiter entering your order into some sort of computer. The computer then sends the order(s) to the proper locations for preparation.

At the end of the meal, the waiter simply pushes a button and the computer spits out a detailed bill with correct addition / subtraction, taxes, etc.

Did you think that the expensive computer system was purchased to improve efficiency and speed up service? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

Waiters using an expensive POS system actually take longer to serve the average guest. The machine slows them down.

So why would a restaurant operator spend big money for a machine that slows his service, and increases his labor costs?

A POS Machine:

Gives a history of dishes ordered, by hour, day, and week. This reduces over-production, and over-(and under) food preparation, which reduces food cost.

Can be programmed to automatically order food and beverage items based on consumption.

Prevents Waiters giving away food or forgetting to charge for something.

Prevents Bartenders giving away drinks or forgetting to charge for them.

Can accurately produce bills split any number of ways, with a push of a button.

Accurately tracks gratuities - which is required by the IRS in America.

Tracks productivity and selling skills of each waiter.
Doubles as a time-keeper, to automatically compute wages, employment taxes, etc.

Can give real-time results on sales for the minute, hour, day, week, month, year.

Can perform 100 additional book-keeping functions that the restaurant owner would need to hire an accountant to do.

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

You don't like the result of your choice but you still have one nonetheless. Every choice has consequences, expecting the same outcome regardless of choice is simply wishful thinking. 

I commented that the problem with your choice system was that those of us who made a choice different from yours were looked down upon by those who made your choice. And you chose to make your condescending post answering mine. I rest my case.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, BruceMuzz said:

Some people confuse convenience with extra controls.

There are hundreds of different POS (Point of Sale)Systems out there.

Nearly all of them are a variation on the waiter entering your order into some sort of computer. The computer then sends the order(s) to the proper locations for preparation.

At the end of the meal, the waiter simply pushes a button and the computer spits out a detailed bill with correct addition / subtraction, taxes, etc.

Did you think that the expensive computer system was purchased to improve efficiency and speed up service? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

Waiters using an expensive POS system actually take longer to serve the average guest. The machine slows them down.

So why would a restaurant operator spend big money for a machine that slows his service, and increases his labor costs?

A POS Machine:

Gives a history of dishes ordered, by hour, day, and week. This reduces over-production, and over-(and under) food preparation, which reduces food cost.

Can be programmed to automatically order food and beverage items based on consumption.

Prevents Waiters giving away food or forgetting to charge for something.

Prevents Bartenders giving away drinks or forgetting to charge for them.

Can accurately produce bills split any number of ways, with a push of a button.

Accurately tracks gratuities - which is required by the IRS in America.

Tracks productivity and selling skills of each waiter.
Doubles as a time-keeper, to automatically compute wages, employment taxes, etc.

Can give real-time results on sales for the minute, hour, day, week, month, year.

Can perform 100 additional book-keeping functions that the restaurant owner would need to hire an accountant to do.

 

My big takeaway from your post is that efficiency in serving the customer has the absolute lowest priority.

[frantic36]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Has anyone ever had their order lost when the server wrote in down on PAPER?

 

My answer would be yes, I have unfortunately had my order lost a few years ago when written on paper and at a high end restaurant. We just didn't go back.

 

So things happen whether high tech or older methods are used.

[jocap]

13 hours ago, davecttr said:

Over here we have to show our Covid vaccination history as part of the boarding process. This is available via your online NHS app. Always print out a paper copy as there are those with smart phones that decide not to work at the critical moment, slowing down the queue

 

It's the speed of new IT which flummoxes us. You mention the NHS app, which we did not know about; I was being bombarded by the NHS to have my first booster- which I'd already had... I tried to work it out by email, but I just couldn't understand what was needed from me

It took a personal visit to both the pharmacy and surgery to discover that my number hadn't been entered on the web site for that particular jab.

It's taken us years to slowly learn how to use IT equipment, and all the time there seems to be new products arriving, which send us back to the beginning. 

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I commented that the problem with your choice system was that those of us who made a choice different from yours were looked down upon by those who made your choice. And you chose to make your condescending post answering mine. I rest my case.

 

Why is it condescending? Just because you don't like it? It's still the truth. I think you're just being sensitive and looking to be offended. None was intended. 

[Hlitner]

Tech is not always an improvement.  But it is the natural economic answer to higher labor costs (increased minimum wage), labor shortages, etc.   I am often amazed at folks that push higher minimum wage/benefits without their acknowledgment that business will react to such changes.  It is the nature of business, be it cruise lines, hotels, or restaurants.  McDonalds simply replaces workers with ordering kiosks.  Factories replace workers with robotics.  Apps replace customer service folks.  It is just the natural order of economics.  For every change there will be a reaction and counter-change.  

 

We are also seeing service changes in order to counter increased labor costs,  Twice a day room/cabin service is often replaced with once a day service.  Twice a week linen changes may be replaced with once a week linen changes.  A six ounce filet is replaced with a 4 ounce filet and more potatoes.  Good coffee is replaced with something of lower quality  A 6 ounce cold wtater lobster tail is replaced with a 4 ounce warm water tail or perhaps replaced with a couple of shrimp.  The carved beef on a lunch buffet is replaced with carved turkey or chicken!  Medium shrimp, that used to be on the luncheon salad bar is replaced with tiny shrimp or perhaps completely disappear.  Salad dressings appear "watered down" because they are thinned with various lower cost agents.

 

And so it goes.   Consider the airlines where we used to routinely have 32-34 inch pitch (distance between seats) in economy but now get as little as 28 inch!  Have you looked at what has happened to aircraft bathrooms.  They have been downsized so an extra row (6 seats) can be crammed in the aircraft.

 

I recently bought a couple of Barbors frozen Chicken Cordon Blue.  They used to be 6 ounces but the new packages had 4 ounce at higher prices than the old 6 ounce (some call this "shrinkflation)

 

As to high tech, I think it is among the least of our problems.  While most things are shrinking or become less of a value, high tech has actually led to many improvements If folks choose to resist high tech they are going to pay a personal price.  Eventually they will need to join the 21st century and accept that tech is now a vital part of our lives.

 

Hank

 

This

[Mike981]

Shrinkflation is here in a big way.

 

5 hours ago, Mary229 said:

 

it is just like cars.  I remember traveling with my father on business in the 60s.  It seemed we spent more time fixing the car then driving it and he never had old cars.  Today’s cars are pretty foolproof, just like an Apple phone 

 

 

*Sidebar*
My uncle used to keep a few pints of his favorite liquor in the engine compartment, on family trips he often had to check the fan belts and odd engine noises.

 

5 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Some people confuse convenience with extra controls.

There are hundreds of different POS (Point of Sale)Systems out there.

Nearly all of them are a variation on the waiter entering your order into some sort of computer. The computer then sends the order(s) to the proper locations for preparation.

At the end of the meal, the waiter simply pushes a button and the computer spits out a detailed bill with correct addition / subtraction, taxes, etc.

Did you think that the expensive computer system was purchased to improve efficiency and speed up service? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

Waiters using an expensive POS system actually take longer to serve the average guest. The machine slows them down.

So why would a restaurant operator spend big money for a machine that slows his service, and increases his labor costs?

A POS Machine:

Gives a history of dishes ordered, by hour, day, and week. This reduces over-production, and over-(and under) food preparation, which reduces food cost.

Can be programmed to automatically order food and beverage items based on consumption.

Prevents Waiters giving away food or forgetting to charge for something.

Prevents Bartenders giving away drinks or forgetting to charge for them.

Can accurately produce bills split any number of ways, with a push of a button.

Accurately tracks gratuities - which is required by the IRS in America.

Tracks productivity and selling skills of each waiter.
Doubles as a time-keeper, to automatically compute wages, employment taxes, etc.

Can give real-time results on sales for the minute, hour, day, week, month, year.

Can perform 100 additional book-keeping functions that the restaurant owner would need to hire an accountant to do.

 

As a former restaurant employee who saw fellow servers bring extra food/drink to garner bigger tips, and literally saw chefs carry sides of prime rib out to their cars that had a cooler with ice, more data on the staff is a good thing. Hopefully it continues to get better and less obtrusive for all.

[Toofarfromthesea]

23 hours ago, ontheweb said:

The problem with your choice system is those of us who have not made your choice are looked down upon by those who have made your choice.

 

Really?  I look through the board and I see a lot more criticism of people who take and use their devices.  Typical is someone asking about wifi plans being inundated with people self-righteously declaring that they should disconnect from their life while on a cruise.  Right here in this thread someone is saying the people who use their devices on a cruise are just trying to avoid being alone with their thoughts.  

[Charles4515]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I commented that the problem with your choice system was that those of us who made a choice different from yours were looked down upon by those who made your choice. And you chose to make your condescending post answering mine. I rest my case.

Funny but on the boards the condescending posts are from self righteous people telling people to disconnect or put their phone in the safe when they ask questions about how to use smartphones on a cruise. Some yahoo seems to always jump in with nanny advice. You are on vacation blah, blah blah…..
 

 

[bonsai3s]

I II embrace change and new tech. I'm old enough to remember cold, bottled milk getting I 87 delivered in front of our door every Tuesday...fast forward now, and people can order food via "door dash".

 

Remember when they had a telephone booth at every corner? Rotary phones?...fast forward now, and just about everyone has a smartphone. 

 

I remember having stacks of maps in the trunk of our car...fast forward now, we have a gps or use google maps.

 

Life is good and I'm thankful for the new inventions. I only hope to live long enough for someone to invent or find a cure for blindness.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Funny but on the boards the condescending posts are from self righteous people telling people to disconnect or put their phone in the safe when they ask questions about how to use smartphones on a cruise. Some yahoo seems to always jump in with nanny advice. You are on vacation blah, blah blah…..
 

 

I see lots of posts saying that they lock up their phones in the safe and do not want to be tethered to them while on vacation, but not posts lecturing others that they have to do the same.

[K32682]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:05 AM, Mary229 said:

Really, they singled out older people as technologically ignorant or was it by request.  I prefer technology, don’t like the paper avalanche and would be a bit offended by the assumption that because of my age I need special assistance.

 

Damn right. I'm quite familiar with and capable of managing modern technology. If anyone handed me a paper copy just because I was over 65 they'd be told where they could shove it. 

[Hlitner]

16 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I commented that the problem with your choice system was that those of us who made a choice different from yours were looked down upon by those who made your choice. And you chose to make your condescending post answering mine. I rest my case.

There is a degree of defensiveness about the tech issue which I think misses the point.  Folks that want to travel and also avoid much of the tech options (especially Smartphones) are free to do that and should not be criticized.  However, they should also be aware that their decision will disadvantage them in several important aspects of travel (especially international travel).  DW and I were dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Smartphone age because of our desire to Facetime with our young grandsons.  Most grandparents will understand that "grandchildren" take precedence over most other things including our resistance to smartphones.  DW was among the last user of old flip phones :).  Once she realized she could Facetime with the "boys" a Smartphone became her friend.

 

Consider a recent stay we had at a HIlton property.  We were able to check-in on our phone, choose our room on our phone, and later use our phone for our room key.  At the time we entered the hotel there was a long line at the Front Desk of folks checking-in (a large group had just arrived) and rather than waiting at least 15 min to get a key we simply went directly to our room.  Checking-out was also easy on the phone and we could quickly review our final statement without any lines.   We headed to the port on Lyft, which cost us about half the cost of a taxi and could only be done because we had a Smartphone.   Recently when we disembarked the MSC Seashore in Miami, our Uber ride pulled up at our location.  The cost to get to FLL in that nice private car was about $30 (about half the cost of a taxi) and the taxi queue was quite long (over 4000 souls had just disembarked the ship).    A week earlier, when we decide to dine out at a decent Miami Beach restaurant, we were able to book a nice table via an APP (calling that restaurant proved near impossible).    When we had a personal emergency and needed to change an airline flight, we were able to do this in less than a minute using the airline's app.  The hold time, if one tried to call that airline was more than an hour (we know because we tried).

 

The use of tech on ships has not quite reached the importance that it is with many aspects of land travel.  But on some lines (we like to cite Princess) it is rapidly reaching that level of necessity.  Even luxury lines (our own recent experience is with Seabourn) have made some steps difficult for folks without a Smartphone.  Yes, there are usually workarounds, but they can be a pain (involve queues and waits).  Just this morning we received an e-mail from Seabourn asking us to update some data on their "App."  

 

Another very helpful Smartphone option is using it as a GPS/map device.  When I drive in Europe I no longer need to rent a GPS device since I can simply use my phone.  I can also program that phone (in advance) with the places we want to drive/walk.  The phone also gives me info about using various forms of public transit including guiding me directly to the proper metro/bus stop.   Yes, it is still possible to carry a decent tour book and maps, but I will admit that having my iWatch tell me when to make a turn is a lot easier than stopping to fumble with maps.

 

Bottom line is that tech is here to stay (like it or not) and even those who resist tech will eventually need to "join the club" because other non-tech options are simply disappearing.  Cruise lines have actually been somewhat late in adopting tech (for passengers) but they are sure playing "catch up."

 

Hank
 

[Ride-The-Waves]

Verbose, but appropriate.

 

Problem is there is a lot of good helpful tech in the techosphere which is ba\oth helpful to the provider and the providee.  There is also a lot of really bad tech pushed out that is cumbersome and unhelpful to the user, and possible provides only a monetary benefit to the provider (including taking your private data for profit).  The Princess tech is a good example of the latter - little to no benefit to the guest cruiser and extremely cumbersome to use.  Tech improvements will be with us as they have been for centuries - no issue.  Maybe we need a "tech traffic police" which rejects bad tech.  Additionally, requiring a $1000 smartphone and $50-100/month subscription to a provider is not "user friendly."  SPECTRUM is the worst and most expensive of these culprits.  Raising fees at their will, changing access at their will, and providing slow connections just is totally unhelpful.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Ride-The-Waves

[BruceMuzz]

18 hours ago, ontheweb said:

My big takeaway from your post is that efficiency in serving the customer has the absolute lowest priority.

Looking at the current Hospitality situation in America, you are spot on.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Verbose, but appropriate.

 

Problem is there is a lot of good helpful tech in the techosphere which is ba\oth helpful to the provider and the providee.  There is also a lot of really bad tech pushed out that is cumbersome and unhelpful to the user, and possible provides only a monetary benefit to the provider (including taking your private data for profit).  The Princess tech is a good example of the latter - little to no benefit to the guest cruiser and extremely cumbersome to use.  Tech improvements will be with us as they have been for centuries - no issue.  Maybe we need a "tech traffic police" which rejects bad tech.  Additionally, requiring a $1000 smartphone and $50-100/month subscription to a provider is not "user friendly."  SPECTRUM is the worst and most expensive of these culprits.  Raising fees at their will, changing access at their will, and providing slow connections just is totally unhelpful.

So lets talk about Smartphones (and dumb users).  DW and I have 2 iPhones that are on a T-Mobile Senior plan,  The cost is $60 a month (total cost for two lines) which includes unlimited text, phone, and data throughout North America.  Our phones also work in over 200 countries with no additional fees for data (at slower speeds) and texting.  Phone calls out of North America do cost us 25 cents/min.  We can be reached nearly anywhere in the world.  T-Mobile (owned by Deutche Telecom).  That is not overly expensive for what we get.  And that $60 a month is the total cost (including all taxes and fees).  Overseas, if we want to upgrade to really fast data (i.e. LTE or 5G) it would cost us $5 a day or $50 a month.    There are other plans (with other providers) that are even less expensive although we have not seen any other plan that gives us so much for so little.  We live in Mexico part of the year, and our T-Mobile phones work fine on either of Mexico's two major networks (Telmex or Movistar).   I think those phones have more than paid for themselves in terms of saving us hassles (and money) when traveling.

 

Hank

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I see lots of posts saying that they lock up their phones in the safe and do not want to be tethered to them while on vacation, but not posts lecturing others that they have to do the same.

 

In the immortal words of Paul Simon, "A man sees what he wants to see, And disregards the rest."