Wine question: Don't Flame Me

[E&D2004]

So here's the question for wine drinkers.  If you were to go into a fine dining restaurant in NYC, or just about anywhere else, and you had the means and wanted to have a bottle of Opus One with your dinner, you would be out between $1,000 and $1,300 for just the wine.  Not something I would ever do.  RCL is selling Opus One for $378 which is about it's retail cost.  If you have a dining package, take 20% off and it is about $300.  Still more than I have ever spent on a bottle of wine but I would think about it if it's a real deal.  What's wrong here? 

[livingonthebeach]

7 minutes ago, E&D2004 said:

So here's the question for wine drinkers.  If you were to go into a fine dining restaurant in NYC, or just about anywhere else, and you had the means and wanted to have a bottle of Opus One with your dinner, you would be out between $1,000 and $1,300 for just the wine.  Not something I would ever do.  RCL is selling Opus One for $378 which is about it's retail cost.  If you have a dining package, take 20% off and it is about $300.  Still more than I have ever spent on a bottle of wine but I would think about it if it's a real deal.  What's wrong here? 

 

Opus wines vary widely in price - they've been produced since 1979 and run the whole gamut - $39,995 for the whole collection.

 

https://www.estatewinebrokers.com/opus-one-complete-vertical-1979-2018-40-x-750ml/?gclid=CjwKCAiAnZCdBhBmEiwA8nDQxRfY0b_6HfBrUy_Bf_d_BiQntAFwdjNltPgF584_I0K9ewCT5pp6eBoCvLAQAvD_BwE

[smokeybandit]

I'm no wine expert, but occasionally when I compare prices onboard vs retail, the markup isn't all that bad

[E&D2004]

48 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Opus wines vary widely in price - they've been produced since 1979 and run the whole gamut - $39,995 for the whole collection.

 

https://www.estatewinebrokers.com/opus-one-complete-vertical-1979-2018-40-x-750ml/?gclid=CjwKCAiAnZCdBhBmEiwA8nDQxRfY0b_6HfBrUy_Bf_d_BiQntAFwdjNltPgF584_I0K9ewCT5pp6eBoCvLAQAvD_BwE

That's true, but the least expensive you will find retail is in the $300 -$400 range which will usually be the current vintage.  $300 in a  restaurant is unheard of as far as I can tell.

 

[alfaeric]

I would think vintage would have a major impact on various costs you see.  Something that is older and rarer will be a lot more expensive vs something newer (and normally more abundant).  

 

This even applies if the old wine has over aged- part of the gamble getting a 30+ year old bottle of wine.

 

But even for the less expensive wines on board, we have thought the bottle deals have been pretty darned good.  Somewhere between what we can find in stores vs. the same bottle in a restaurant.  It helps that RCI buys in much bigger bulk than most restaurants.

 

edit- for fun, I looked up Opus One at a really large retail wine store- and found a 2019 Opus One for sale at $390, a 2012 at $790, and a 2016 Magnum (1.5l vs. 750ml) at $1100.    The "cheap" one us the Overture Blend by Opus One at $145.  If that info helps...  (that's our local Total Wine)

Edited December 23, 2022 by alfaeric

[E&D2004]

5 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

I would think vintage would have a major impact on various costs you see.  Something that is older and rarer will be a lot more expensive vs something newer (and normally more abundant).  

 

This even applies if the old wine has over aged- part of the gamble getting a 30+ year old bottle of wine.

 

But even for the less expensive wines on board, we have thought the bottle deals have been pretty darned good.  Somewhere between what we can find in stores vs. the same bottle in a restaurant.  It helps that RCI buys in much bigger bulk than most restaurants.

For reference, a single bottle of the 2019, current, vintage from the vineyard is $390.  I am having trouble understanding how they sell it for so much less on board.  I'm not trying to be difficult.  Just trying to understand.  Has anyone actually bought a bottle on board? 

[BND]

51 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm no wine expert, but occasionally when I compare prices onboard vs retail, the markup isn't all that bad

Except for wine like Beringer White Zinfandel which retails for between $5-$7 a bottle.  Onboard, it's over $30.  I don't drink it.   But, it is way overpriced onboard.

[John&LaLa]

41 minutes ago, BND said:

Except for wine like Beringer White Zinfandel which retails for between $5-$7 a bottle.  Onboard, it's over $30.  I don't drink it.   But, it is way overpriced onboard.

 

$3.83 at Publix the last few weeks 

 

But even at $30, is that more markup than $8 for a single can of Bud Light?

Edited December 23, 2022 by John&LaLa

[Alzaman]

2 hours ago, E&D2004 said:

So here's the question for wine drinkers.  If you were to go into a fine dining restaurant in NYC, or just about anywhere else, and you had the means and wanted to have a bottle of Opus One with your dinner, you would be out between $1,000 and $1,300 for just the wine.  Not something I would ever do.  RCL is selling Opus One for $378 which is about it's retail cost.  If you have a dining package, take 20% off and it is about $300.  Still more than I have ever spent on a bottle of wine but I would think about it if it's a real deal.  What's wrong here? 

This is my area of expertise. I was born and raised in the Napa Valley while I recently moved to Texas I still run a wine concierge business that has no ties to Opus or their Corporation.  While I am not a huge Opus One fan, if it is a 750mil bottle, I would say it is a great value for a restaurant.  If you like to enjoy a good wine this would be a great time to buy it.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Alzaman

[E&D2004]

8 minutes ago, Alzaman said:

This is my area of expertise. I was born and raised in the Napa Valley while I recently moved to Texas I still run a wine concierge business that has no ties to Opus or their Corporation.  While I am not a huge Opus One fan, if it is a 750mil bottle, I would say it is a great value for a restaurant.  If you like to enjoy a good wine this would be a great time to buy it.

 

Thank you.  We may just do that.

 

[LB_NJ]

The one possible issue is storage.  I am not sure how well wines are stored on-board a ship (ie, constant temperature around 55 degrees, if my memory is right, plus a rocking boat is not good for wine).  Also, a red wine does need to age a certain amount before you drink it.

[Alzaman]

19 minutes ago, E&D2004 said:

Thank you.  We may just do that.

 

If you are a little put off by the price.  I really like the Robert Mondavi 50th Anniversary Maestro.

It is a 2013 vintage which is one of my favorite Napa Valley vintage years, and it is 1/3 the cost of the Opus One.  Could be worth a try.   Of course wine tasting is such a subjective thing.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Alzaman

[E&D2004]

23 minutes ago, Alzaman said:

If you are a little put off by the price.  I really like the Robert Mondavi 50th Anniversary Maestro.

It is a 2013 vintage which is one of my favorite Napa Valley vintage years, and it is 1/3 the cost of the Opus One.  Could be worth a try.   Of course wine tasting is such a subjective thing.

Thanks.  It looks like there are more than a few that will be in my wheelhouse.  That's one of them. 

[livingonthebeach]

Personally, I am partial to Conundrum, produced by Caymus vineyards. Here at home I can typically buy it for $17-19 on sale. On an RCI ship I saw the exact same wine for $60. That's a little more than triple the cost. That's about the generally mark-up across the board. The Opus One they sell for around $300 may very well be the less expensive Overture blend.

[BND]

10 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

$3.83 at Publix the last few weeks 

 

But even at $30, is that more markup than $8 for a single can of Bud Light?

I was just pointing out that there are huge markups.

[Seville2Cabo]

On Radiance in August, Opus and Opus blend were on the menu.  Don't remember exact price, but something like $170 and $300.  BUT - they were out of both.  So before you get your heart set on trying it, see if they have it.  In August, they were out of most wines over $100.

[alfaeric]

11 hours ago, E&D2004 said:

For reference, a single bottle of the 2019, current, vintage from the vineyard is $390.  I am having trouble understanding how they sell it for so much less on board.  I'm not trying to be difficult.  Just trying to understand.  Has anyone actually bought a bottle on board? 

Bulk.

 

Just like they seemed to turn Buffalo Trace to an easy to get brand (especially Blantons) to one that was allocated.

[Rogueperson]

I'm not a big wine connoisseur, but my wife knows more than I.

 

A little story.  My wife and I were married in 2015.  We had a customized ceremony which included a bottle of wine.  Ironically, we got married on a cruise ship (Carnival).  The night before we, separated not to see each other until the next morning.  I had several jobs, one of which, was to bring the wine.  I was supposed to pick something up, but as I said, I know nothing about wine and it was supposed to be a good wine.  The whole deal is that the wine would go into a box and "locked" with two sealed letters and if we were to have problems, we would open the box, read the letters to one another with the wine.  FYI, that box is still locked.  Anyways, that morning, I was rushing as I was supposed to meet my parents, and pick up this, do this, pack this and i'm finally on the road and...I FORGOT THE WINE!!!!!

 

Fortunately, for me, we just grabbed a placeholder bottle for the ceremony, got married and forgot about the wine...for about a year.

 

Fast forward, we're on the Anthem, and ironically, this is the only time we've ever gotten the drink package.  It was on sale (a real sale) AND it was during the time where only one of us needed to get it (as I don't drink).  We're onboard, and there is a Vintages Wine bar onboard.  They had a GREAT selection of wine, but I did not know anything about wine.  I knew that we got a discount with the package, not sure if it was 20% or 40% off wine more costing more than $100.00, We found this 200 dollar bottle of wine my wife said was good (i don't remember what it is, its locked in the box) and got a great discount on it.  I also had the internet onboard when they installed the o3b system on Anthem, so it was decent for cruise ship internet and I was able to find out that the bottle of wine retailed about the same price as what Royal was selling, but with the discount, it really was a discount.  So expensive wines are priced competitively.

 

As I mentioned, I know very little about wine.  I'm solo last year.  I'm diamond so now I get 4 free drinks and i'm going over the wine list.  Its a blur to me.  Until I see the ONE wine I recognize.  Conundrum, only because I had it before at Chef's Table and my wife likes this one.  Combined with me having it before and my wife's recommendation, I see that they are charging 16 bucks/glass for Conundrum, or 63 for the bottle.  Curious, I look up Conundrum.  It goes for 16/bottle retail.

My educated guess is that if they serve it by the glass, they will totally upcharge the bottle, but if its a more costly bottle, it will be closer to retail price.  They probably make more of a profit off lower priced wines than pricier wines.

That being said, I suspect that to make the bottle discount worth it, you'd have to drink some REALLY expensive wines.  I mean, if you're saving a true 20% off of bottles, you're only saving $40 bucks on a $200.00 bottle of wine, you're still paying 160 bucks PLUS the drink package for the both of you.

[George C]

We were happy with wine choices on our allure cruise a year ago , we got the UDP which gives us 40 percent off bottles under a hundred and 20 over I thought there selections were pretty good . I preferred celebrity which allowed us to bring on 4 bottles with no corkage ( we haven’t had to pay corkage on rccl either ) .

[John&LaLa]

9 hours ago, Rogueperson said:

I'm not a big wine connoisseur, but my wife knows more than I.

 

A little story.  My wife and I were married in 2015.  We had a customized ceremony which included a bottle of wine.  Ironically, we got married on a cruise ship (Carnival).  The night before we, separated not to see each other until the next morning.  I had several jobs, one of which, was to bring the wine.  I was supposed to pick something up, but as I said, I know nothing about wine and it was supposed to be a good wine.  The whole deal is that the wine would go into a box and "locked" with two sealed letters and if we were to have problems, we would open the box, read the letters to one another with the wine.  FYI, that box is still locked.  Anyways, that morning, I was rushing as I was supposed to meet my parents, and pick up this, do this, pack this and i'm finally on the road and...I FORGOT THE WINE!!!!!

 

Fortunately, for me, we just grabbed a placeholder bottle for the ceremony, got married and forgot about the wine...for about a year.

 

Fast forward, we're on the Anthem, and ironically, this is the only time we've ever gotten the drink package.  It was on sale (a real sale) AND it was during the time where only one of us needed to get it (as I don't drink).  We're onboard, and there is a Vintages Wine bar onboard.  They had a GREAT selection of wine, but I did not know anything about wine.  I knew that we got a discount with the package, not sure if it was 20% or 40% off wine more costing more than $100.00, We found this 200 dollar bottle of wine my wife said was good (i don't remember what it is, its locked in the box) and got a great discount on it.  I also had the internet onboard when they installed the o3b system on Anthem, so it was decent for cruise ship internet and I was able to find out that the bottle of wine retailed about the same price as what Royal was selling, but with the discount, it really was a discount.  So expensive wines are priced competitively.

 

As I mentioned, I know very little about wine.  I'm solo last year.  I'm diamond so now I get 4 free drinks and i'm going over the wine list.  Its a blur to me.  Until I see the ONE wine I recognize.  Conundrum, only because I had it before at Chef's Table and my wife likes this one.  Combined with me having it before and my wife's recommendation, I see that they are charging 16 bucks/glass for Conundrum, or 63 for the bottle.  Curious, I look up Conundrum.  It goes for 16/bottle retail.

My educated guess is that if they serve it by the glass, they will totally upcharge the bottle, but if its a more costly bottle, it will be closer to retail price.  They probably make more of a profit off lower priced wines than pricier wines.

That being said, I suspect that to make the bottle discount worth it, you'd have to drink some REALLY expensive wines.  I mean, if you're saving a true 20% off of bottles, you're only saving $40 bucks on a $200.00 bottle of wine, you're still paying 160 bucks PLUS the drink package for the both of you.

 

Conundrum is available as a 525 point or so selection. I have a couple bottles at home.

[John&LaLa]

8 hours ago, George C said:

We were happy with wine choices on our allure cruise a year ago , we got the UDP which gives us 40 percent off bottles under a hundred and 20 over I thought there selections were pretty good . I preferred celebrity which allowed us to bring on 4 bottles with no corkage ( we haven’t had to pay corkage on rccl either ) .

 

Having two cabins allows you 4 bottles.

 

I have 4 Belle Glos ready for world cruise

[Wineaux007]

13 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Having two cabins allows you 4 bottles.

 

I have 4 Belle Glos ready for world cruise

Having 2 people also allows you 4 bottles, if you know what I mean.  😉

[George C]

14 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Having two cabins allows you 4 bottles.

 

I have 4 Belle Glos ready for world cruise

We had dinner at the captains table just once about ten years ago and I believe Belle Glos was served almost bought a bottle of that when I picked up a assorted case at Tom Thumb 30 percent sale.

[DaKahuna]

3 hours ago, Wineaux007 said:

Having 2 people also allows you 4 bottles, if you know what I mean.  😉

 

 Only if your intent is to break the rules. 

 

[John&LaLa]

3 hours ago, Wineaux007 said:

Having 2 people also allows you 4 bottles, if you know what I mean.  😉

 

6 if you try hard