Opinion about this situation. Dangerous?

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

The kid would not land on the tarp unless thrown. 🙄
 

 

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

So you are an expert in the trajectory of falling children?

 

From the pic, it looks like if the parent suddenly released, the kid would fall on the balcony deck.  Of course, before you say it, that does not mean what the parent is doing is OK.  

[Sea42]

It is a miracle any of us survived our childhood

[Mum2Mercury]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:15 AM, GeezerCouple said:

Unfortunately, this behavior is also a "teaching moment"... for the apparently slightly older child next to them.

At a later time:  "Oh, Daddy lets us sit up there, so I'm going to get this chair so I can climb up..." 

This is exactly what I was thinking:  These are small children, and Dad has "okayed" climbing on the rails.  

I was a climber ... I raised a climber ... now I'm grandmother to a climber.  Some of you know what I'm talking about; a climbing child will scare you!  

On 1/30/2023 at 12:10 PM, ontheweb said:

Unfortunately, morons will be morons ...

That's something I've seen proven true over and over. 

On 1/30/2023 at 4:21 PM, Zach1213 said:

Here I thought Michael Jackson had passed, but he's still doin' this to poor Blanket, huh? 

Yes!  That -- not the grandfather who dropped his granddaughter -- was the first thing I thought of! 

On 1/30/2023 at 9:11 PM, Aquahound said:

But no, that child is not made of crazy-ball rubber so in reality, she would fall about 4' and land on the deck.

Even if she hit the deck (instead of the ocean), it's maybe 4' to the awning below, but she'd keep falling, and she'd definitely be hurt:  cuts, broken bones, maybe a concussion.  She might fall on a table or chair, which could hurt her.  Even if not, consider how you'd get her back ... she might land on another person's private balcony, and they might or might not be in their room.  No, this Dad's choice cannot be defended.  

Edited February 1, 2023 by Mum2Mercury

[Cruzaholic41]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

So you are an expert in the trajectory of falling children?

This cannot be a serious question so at this point, I have to just assume you’re being your usual self and trolling this thread. 

[K32682]

2 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Even if she hit the deck (instead of the ocean), it's maybe 4' to the awning below, but she'd keep falling, and she'd definitely be hurt:  cuts, broken bones, maybe a concussion.  She might fall on a table or chair, which could hurt her.  Even if not, consider how you'd get her back ... she might land on another person's private balcony, and they might or might not be in their room.  No, this Dad's choice cannot be defended.  

 

No one is defending his actions. Any differences pertain to what the appropriate response by the ship's crew might be. Accusing the person of "child endangerment," throwing him off the ship and reporting him to child protection authorities go far beyond what this incident merits.

 

 

[Mum2Mercury]

4 minutes ago, K32682 said:

No one is defending his actions. Any differences pertain to what the appropriate response by the ship's crew might be. Accusing the person of "child endangerment," throwing him off the ship and reporting him to child protection authorities go far beyond what this incident merits.

Yeah, the "It's no big deal" crew are defending his actions.  

 

I agree that throwing him off the ship and reporting him to CPS (can you do that across state lines?) are "too much" ... but I do think a talk with an officer is a good idea.  That would be enough to make a reasonable person say, "Uh, I shouldn't have done that." 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Mum2Mercury

[ontheweb]

One thing we do not know that would affect how serious this is is whether or not he was drunk at the time.

[Aquahound]

12 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

 

Even if she hit the deck (instead of the ocean), it's maybe 4' to the awning below, but she'd keep falling, and she'd definitely be hurt:  cuts, broken bones, maybe a concussion.  She might fall on a table or chair, which could hurt her.  Even if not, consider how you'd get her back ... she might land on another person's private balcony, and they might or might not be in their room.  No, this Dad's choice cannot be defended.  

It’s astonishing to me some of the scenarios suggested in this thread. I truly have to wonder if some of you are seeing to same photo I am. 

[Charles4515]

10 hours ago, Aquahound said:

It’s astonishing to me some of the scenarios suggested in this thread. I truly have to wonder if some of you are seeing to same photo I am. 

I saw the photo first on a smartphone. Looking at it on a larger device I would revise my initial impression. I would just ask him to stop. 

[Cruisercl]

The child is being put in a dangerous situation called child endangerment which is illegal. The child is dependent on the safety level of the adult which is not clear.

I would hope the 'Master' would be smart enough to recognize the possibilities in this situation.

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, Cruisercl said:

The child is being put in a dangerous situation called child endangerment which is illegal. The child is dependent on the safety level of the adult which is not clear.

I would hope the 'Master' would be smart enough to recognize the possibilities in this situation.

 

As I previously posted, the Master acts in accordance with the company policy and laws of the Flag State. Since the flag state is not evident from the photo, how can you possibly know this is illegal? Most cruise ships are flagged in "Flags of Convenience" which are known for having minimalist laws.

 

Having spent almost 30 yrs in command of pax vessels, if I recommended charges of child endangerment every time we saw someone securely holding a child on the railing, I would probably be seeking an alternative career.

 

This is unsafe, not illegal and is resolved by requesting they remove the child from the railing and not do it again. If they do it again, it becomes an illegal act by the parent/guardian by refusing to follow the legal order of the Master.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Cruisercl said:

The child is being put in a dangerous situation called child endangerment which is illegal. The child is dependent on the safety level of the adult which is not clear.

I would hope the 'Master' would be smart enough to recognize the possibilities in this situation.

 

48 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

As I previously posted, the Master acts in accordance with the company policy and laws of the Flag State. Since the flag state is not evident from the photo, how can you possibly know this is illegal? Most cruise ships are flagged in "Flags of Convenience" which are known for having minimalist laws.

Andy is quite correct here, as he should be as a former ship's Captain.  As noted, you don't know the flag of the vessel, or where in the world this happened.  Wake up, folks, most of your "rights" and legal protections from the US, stop when you walk up the gangway on a foreign flag cruise ship.  All this talk of child protective services, and child endangerment is moot, from a US legal perspective.

[Mary229]

I could not find anything on the MSC website but RCCL explicitly forbids climbing or sitting on railings.  Read the cruise contracts, if you misbehave, including violating safety protocols, they have the right to kick you off the cruise.

[K32682]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I could not find anything on the MSC website but RCCL explicitly forbids climbing or sitting on railings.  Read the cruise contracts, if you misbehave, including violating safety protocols, they have the right to kick you off the cruise.

 

A closer look at the picture shows the child is neither climbing on or sitting on the rail. The child is being hoisted up by the adult, one hand on the bottom and the other around the child's mid-section while his/her legs are resting on the rail. It not the smartest move but hardly calls for a massive overreaction.

[Mary229]

17 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

A closer look at the picture shows the child is neither climbing on or sitting on the rail. The child is being hoisted up by the adult, one hand on the bottom and the other around the child's mid-section while his/her legs are resting on the rail. It not the smartest move but hardly calls for a massive overreaction.

I am not overreacting.  I first pointed out it was of questionable judgement and if so inclined should be reported. Secondly I came back into the thread with information about expected behavior that has legal consequences.   Perhaps you need to read your next cruise contract carefully.  That behavior clearly violates Royal’s guidelines but perhaps not MSC’s

[navybankerteacher]

9 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I am not overreacting.  I first pointed out it was of questionable judgement and if so inclined should be reported. Secondly I came back into the thread with information about expected behavior that has legal consequences.   Perhaps you need to read your next cruise contract carefully.  That behavior clearly violates Royal’s guidelines but perhaps not MSC’s

Best to let this go -- the mood here seems to be to trivialize what the adult was doing.

[Cruisercl]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Andy is quite correct here, as he should be as a former ship's Captain.  As noted, you don't know the flag of the vessel, or where in the world this happened.  Wake up, folks, most of your "right and legal protections from the US, stop when you walk up the gangway on a foreign flag cruise ship.  All this talk of child protective services, and child endangerment is moot, from a US legal perspective.

Until the child falls, we have all seen it recently. Just saying.

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, Cruisercl said:

Until the child falls, we have all seen it recently. Just saying.

And, that incident happened in Puerto Rico, and was tried in Puerto Rico under US law, but if it had happened in say Panama, then US law would have no bearing.

Edited February 3, 2023 by chengkp75

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Best to let this go -- the mood here seems to be to trivialize what the adult was doing.

Rather than trivializing the behavior, I think folks are pointing out that there is a difference between what is right or wrong, and what is legal or not.