Where's the beef 2.0? In the MDR, is Beef Wellington, Prime Rib and Ribeye all gone for 2023???

[bigbeergut]

11 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Last August our travel group of 4 sailed on the Reflection from Rome in Sky Suites followed by a cruise on the HAL Oosterdam from Venice in Signature suites. After the cruise the 4 of us agreed that the food choices and quality in the Oosterdam MDR was overall better than the Reflection Luminae. We had prime rib, beef Wellington and good steaks in the Oosterdam MDR and the HAL Lido Buffet was far superior to the Reflection OVC. We all much preferred the Retreat Suites experience and product over the suites on the Oosterdam. However, after very successful Retreat cruises prior to last year, we were a little disappointed in Celebrity and felt last year Celebrity had lost a step. From all I have read this year, it sounds like Celebrity may have lost another step or two. Going Forward we now have 4 Celebrity, 2 HAL and 1 Oceania future cruises booked. Where Celebrity is probably losing us is in the huge price increases, we are seeing for booking the Retreat on future cruises. In November we are doing our first Pinnacle Class HAL cruise on the Koningsdam and are very much looking forward to the experience of this newest HAL class of ships. Our TA was recently on the Rotterdam and raved about the ship and food over the Celebrity E Class ships. 

It will be interesting to see your perspective on the Koningsdam.  There are 2 things that disappoint me on the Rotterdam.  First is the noise level in the MDR,  it is much louder than anything I’ve experienced on Celebrity or Royal.  It seems like you are close to a waiter station with the constant noise of utensils and plates being stacked.  I suspect you’ll be in Club Orange so that won’t be an issue.  The second issue is smoking in the casino that allows second hand smoke to infiltrate into the music walk area.   If you’re sensitive to second hand smoke this may be an issue.  Other than those two things, I think you will enjoy the Koningsdam.   .

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, bigbeergut said:

 
I dropped over and checked out the Zuiderdam World cruise live thread.  I hadn’t seen those negative comments at the beginning of the review.  In any case, I did not appreciate your extensive HAL experience, no need for me to give you any advice on HAL😀.  In any case, hopefully my perspective helps some of the less experienced cruisers.  

After seeing these posts about the Zuiderdam world cruise, I went back to read some of the more current posts on page 8 and 9. There have been some complaints about food quality but I did see plenty of mentions about surf and turf, prime rib and other beef dishes being served, the more common complaints were about food not being served hot enough or that the second lobster tail was $7.50 upcharge. I agree with your assessment that some complaints are more over boredom of seeing the same menus being repeated on such a long cruise.

[terrydtx]

31 minutes ago, bigbeergut said:

It will be interesting to see your perspective on the Koningsdam.  There are 2 things that disappoint me on the Rotterdam.  First is the noise level in the MDR,  it is much louder than anything I’ve experienced on Celebrity or Royal.  It seems like you are close to a waiter station with the constant noise of utensils and plates being stacked.  I suspect you’ll be in Club Orange so that won’t be an issue.  The second issue is smoking in the casino that allows second hand smoke to infiltrate into the music walk area.   If you’re sensitive to second hand smoke this may be an issue.  Other than those two things, I think you will enjoy the Koningsdam.   .

We decided we wanted an aft facing cabin on the Koningsdam so we are only in an aft veranda for this short 7 day cruise of the California coast. We are not doing the Club Orange add on either. We are planning on dining at least 4 nights in the specialty restaurants with 2 of them in the Tamarind so we saw no reason to do CO. First thing I noticed was how much less cost the HAL specialty restaurants are compared to Celebrity. 

 

After our Apex cruise in September it will be interesting to see how HAL's newest class of ships compare to the E Class ships. We will book an Alaska cruise for 2025 while onboard and we hope one of the Pinnacles will be in Alaska that summer.

Edited February 19, 2023 by terrydtx

[bigbeergut]

2 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

We decided we wanted an aft facing cabin on the Koningsdam so we are only in an aft veranda for this short 7 day cruise off the California coast. We are not doing the Club Orange add on either. We are planning on dining at least 4 nights in the specialty restaurants with 2 of them in the Tamarind so we saw no reason to do CO. First thing I noticed was how much less cost the HAL specialty restaurants are compared to Celebrity. 

That sounds like a good plan.  Club Orange is expensive for the shorter cruises.  Hopefully you’re getting some good advice from your travel agent on booking the specialty restaurants.  I forget the exact time but they open for booking a couple of months ahead of your cruise,  be sure to jump on them quickly because the 6:30 or 7:00 time slots go quickly with many people having the Have it All package.  You may have to eat early or late if you wait until you are onboard to book.  B2B cruisers can also book the restaurants during the preceding cruise which also makes it difficult to book onboard.  You should also note that your OBC can’t be used until you board.  Each cruise line has it’s own little quirks that you need to learn about.

[RichYak]

10 hours ago, Baystate said:

Just off Princess in November and I can confirm that they did have prime rib and beef wellington in the mdr 

In November, Celebrity had prime rib and beef wellington in the mdr.

[terrydtx]

16 minutes ago, bigbeergut said:

That sounds like a good plan.  Club Orange is expensive for the shorter cruises.  Hopefully you’re getting some good advice from your travel agent on booking the specialty restaurants.  I forget the exact time but they open for booking a couple of months ahead of your cruise,  be sure to jump on them quickly because the 6:30 or 7:00 time slots go quickly with many people having the Have it All package.  You may have to eat early or late if you wait until you are onboard to book.  B2B cruisers can also book the restaurants during the preceding cruise which also makes it difficult to book onboard.  You should also note that your OBC can’t be used until you board.  Each cruise line has it’s own little quirks that you need to learn about.

I have never liked not being able to use HAL issued nonrefundable OBC before we board on HAL. We get much more OBC with Celebrity Suites and we can use it for any pre-board bookings. Last year we had a good amount of OBC on the Oosterdam and my wife wanted to use a spa service on embarkation day but couldn't pre book with our OBC. Our November K-Dam cruise will not let us book specialty restaurants this far out like you said.

Edited February 19, 2023 by terrydtx

[terrydtx]

2 minutes ago, RichYak said:

In November, Celebrity had prime rib and beef wellington in the mdr.

That has all changed this year based on reports from current passengers, 

[RichYak]

4 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

That has all changed this year based on reports from current passengers, 

Yes, that was my point.

[NMTraveller]

Is it true that the shrimp cocktail has shrunk?

 

If so does anyone have pictures.  I am just wondering how many I should order.

[terrydtx]

36 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Is it true that the shrimp cocktail has shrunk?

 

If so does anyone have pictures.  I am just wondering how many I should order.

We loved having shrimp cocktails delivered to our cabin by our butler every afternoon to our cabin. We had a standing order for this last year on the Reflection and we would come back from shore excursions and have our shrimp on ice waiting for us curtesy of our butler. I hope that hasn't gone away too. They were nice big ones too.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

We loved having shrimp cocktails delivered to our cabin by our butler every afternoon to our cabin. We had a standing order for this last year on the Reflection and we would come back from shore excursions and have our shrimp on ice waiting for us curtesy of our butler. I hope that hasn't gone away too. They were nice big ones too.

If you did that now, on X, I believe you would pay $9.95 + 18% for the new room service charge.

[NutsAboutGolf]

2 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

If you did that now, on X, I believe you would pay $9.95 + 18% for the new room service charge.

 

Not for those in suites

[booklady26]

5 hours ago, terrydtx said:

That has all changed this year based on reports from current passengers, 

I was on the Sky Princess 3 weeks ago and had prime rib, rack of lamb and surf & turf with filet mignon and lobster tails in the MDR. I told my husband that we should have ordered more lobster while it was still free and a couple sitting next to us chimed in and commented that wasn't it terrible that Celebrity was now charging for extra lobster! 

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

If you did that now, on X, I believe you would pay $9.95 + 18% for the new room service charge.

True for those not sailing in suites.  I have accepted the fact that my cruise is going to cost a fair amount more when you add in all of the extra charges.  I will take that into account when booking my next cruise.

[terrydtx]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

If you did that now, on X, I believe you would pay $9.95 + 18% for the new room service charge.

We only book suites and no charge for room service for suites.

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

We only book suites and no charge for room service for suites.

You might have noticed my posts about X suites.  They make absolutely no sense, in terms of value,  We can cruise on several true luxury lines for much less than the price of a simple Sky Suite.  In fact, our most recent 27 night Seabourn cruise cost us less than $400 per person/day which was for a nice suite/balcony on an all-inclusive luxury cruise (the only thing not included are excursions).  On Seabourn, when our stewardess asks what we want in our cabin I might say a bottle of cognac,,,and it will magically appear (no charge).  There is unlimited caviar, French Champagne, top shelf booze, etc.  Alternative restaurants are no charge and there are no add-ons anywhere!  It is similar on other luxury lines.  Celebrity is a mass market line that tries to offer some luxury perks in the Retreat Suites....but in the final analysis it is still a mass market line.

 

I am not knocking Celebrity, but simply saying that the Retreat Suites are not a good value when compared to much of the competition.  IMHO, Celebrity has priced itself out of the market.  Because some cruisers have this weird "loyalty" thing, I do think Celebrity can pull it off...at least until more of their loyal customers realize that better value exists elsewhere.

 

Hank

[terrydtx]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

You might have noticed my posts about X suites.  They make absolutely no sense, in terms of value,  We can cruise on several true luxury lines for much less than the price of a simple Sky Suite.  In fact, our most recent 27 night Seabourn cruise cost us less than $400 per person/day which was for a nice suite/balcony on an all-inclusive luxury cruise (the only thing not included are excursions).  On Seabourn, when our stewardess asks what we want in our cabin I might say a bottle of cognac,,,and it will magically appear (no charge).  There is unlimited caviar, French Champagne, top shelf booze, etc.  Alternative restaurants are no charge and there are no add-ons anywhere!  It is similar on other luxury lines.  Celebrity is a mass market line that tries to offer some luxury perks in the Retreat Suites....but in the final analysis it is still a mass market line.

 

I am not knocking Celebrity, but simply saying that the Retreat Suites are not a good value when compared to much of the competition.  IMHO, Celebrity has priced itself out of the market.  Because some cruisers have this weird "loyalty" thing, I do think Celebrity can pull it off...at least until more of their loyal customers realize that better value exists elsewhere.

 

Hank

I have read your posts about Celebrity Suites. I have also looked into Seabourn but can't seem to find anything near the pricing you have quoted, if I did, I would jump on it, if the itinerary was right for us. We did book a 2025 cruise on Oceania where the cost per day was considerably less than being in a comparable itinerary on Celebrity in a Sky Suite. Our currently booked Sky Suite cruises were booked considerably less than what Celebrity now wants for the cruise.  I could never justify booking anything more than a Sky Suite as the higher suites are so outrageous in cost for not getting much more than a bigger cabin over a Sky Suite. For us they have almost priced us out of their suites market for a SS.

[Hlitner]

45 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I have read your posts about Celebrity Suites. I have also looked into Seabourn but can't seem to find anything near the pricing you have quoted, if I did, I would jump on it, if the itinerary was right for us. We did book a 2025 cruise on Oceania where the cost per day was considerably less than being in a comparable itinerary on Celebrity in a Sky Suite. Our currently booked Sky Suite cruises were booked considerably less than what Celebrity now wants for the cruise.  I could never justify booking anything more than a Sky Suite as the higher suites are so outrageous in cost for not getting much more than a bigger cabin over a Sky Suite. For us they have almost priced us out of their suites market for a SS.

Just keep in mind that when looking at Seabourn, nearly all the suites are identical (except for a few of the lowest categories).  So, for example, if I look at the 14 Night Seabourn Ovation cruise departing from Copenhagen on July 23, 2023, a V1 or OB veranda guarantee (suite with balcony) costs $402 per person/day.  That price includes taxes, tips, booze, Internet, etc. etc.  There are no add-ons other than what you choose to go ashore.  Even  in you move up to a V3 the cost is still under $500 per person/day.    When we have cruised on Seabourn, our on board account is zero (even if a long cruise) because we do not generally buy excursions (on any line) and there is no nickel/diming.  You will not pay for room service, you do not need to tip, there are no fees for alternative dining, no fees for drinks (unless you want to order some very high end stuff like JW Blue or Remy XO), etc.  In fact, nearly all the luxury lines operate that way (no nickel and diming) except some of the other luxury lines may have 1 very high-end dining venue that has an add-on for expensive wine pairings.   On those lines we generally get enough OBC so that if we do want to try those special dining nights we can do it using the OBC.  On Seabourn we have always been happy with the lower cost OB Guarantee bookings and have always had a nice suite.  

 

Do not get me wrong.  Luxury lines can be very expensive (over $1000 per person/day) depending on what voyage and line.  If you want to take a luxury exploration ship to Antarctica (and go ashore in Zodiacs) you can easily spend over $1000 per person/day.  And there are certainly other expensive itineraries such as going through the Panama Canal (the canal fees are very high per person for a smaller luxury vessel.

 

We have an upcoming cruise on the new Explora I ship that cost us less than $500 per person/day (they have since increased their prices by about 20%).  That particular new luxury line (soon to have 4 identical 900 passenger ships) has made it clear they will not have and "sales" or last minute price drops.  Their CEO has announced they will cruise with empty suites rather than lower prices (and quality).  Do you think that Celebrity will hold the line on their latest high prices?  🙂

 

Hank

 

 

[cadburysmom]

8 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Just keep in mind that when looking at Seabourn, nearly all the suites are identical (except for a few of the lowest categories).  So, for example, if I look at the 14 Night Seabourn Ovation cruise departing from Copenhagen on July 23, 2023, a V1 or OB veranda guarantee (suite with balcony) costs $402 per person/day.  That price includes taxes, tips, booze, Internet, etc. etc.  There are no add-ons other than what you choose to go ashore.  Even  in you move up to a V3 the cost is still under $500 per person/day.    When we have cruised on Seabourn, our on board account is zero (even if a long cruise) because we do not generally buy excursions (on any line) and there is no nickel/diming.  You will not pay for room service, you do not need to tip, there are no fees for alternative dining, no fees for drinks (unless you want to order some very high end stuff like JW Blue or Remy XO), etc.  In fact, nearly all the luxury lines operate that way (no nickel and diming) except some of the other luxury lines may have 1 very high-end dining venue that has an add-on for expensive wine pairings.   On those lines we generally get enough OBC so that if we do want to try those special dining nights we can do it using the OBC.  On Seabourn we have always been happy with the lower cost OB Guarantee bookings and have always had a nice suite.  

 

Do not get me wrong.  Luxury lines can be very expensive (over $1000 per person/day) depending on what voyage and line.  If you want to take a luxury exploration ship to Antarctica (and go ashore in Zodiacs) you can easily spend over $1000 per person/day.  And there are certainly other expensive itineraries such as going through the Panama Canal (the canal fees are very high per person for a smaller luxury vessel.

 

We have an upcoming cruise on the new Explora I ship that cost us less than $500 per person/day (they have since increased their prices by about 20%).  That particular new luxury line (soon to have 4 identical 900 passenger ships) has made it clear they will not have and "sales" or last minute price drops.  Their CEO has announced they will cruise with empty suites rather than lower prices (and quality).  Do you think that Celebrity will hold the line on their latest high prices?  🙂

 

Hank

 

 

Totally agree with Hank and highly recommend Seabourn.

 

Pre-Covid, I enjoyed transatlantics on Celebrity solstice class ships, actually have one coming up in April but it may well be my last.. with higher Retreat pricing, etc..., it makes no sense not to choose Seabourn or other luxury lines.  There are good deals to be had and totally worth it, IMHO. 

[Hlitner]

I want to reiterate that we have no problem with X other than value!  Celebrity has always been among the best of the mass market lines, but it is a "mass market" line with large vessels, the usual nickel and diming, etc.  But, for cruisers that routinely cruise in the higher categories (especially suites) the recent pricing structure of Celebrity (and some of their competition) has changed the cruise landscape.  We now have mass market lines charging as much or more than luxury lines at these higher categories.  

 

Cruisers who do choose to pay for suites now have the option to either cruise in a mass market suite (such as the Retreat Suites) or (for the same or less money) cruise on a small ship luxury line.  They are completely different experiences (we have done both) and both have their pros/cons.  But, IMHO, we find the luxury lines are now a much better value than the Retreat.  In fact, even at a higher price point the luxury lines have much more to offer.  Think along the lines of a person who books the largest suite in a Holiday Inn versus one who is in a normal suite in a Four Seasons or Ritz!  The Holiday Inn customer does have bragging rights (i,e. I am in the best at this hotel) while the person in the Four Seasons can simply say, "I am in the best hotel!"

 

I will also add (for those who might be curious) that the various luxury lines all have their good and bad points, just like the mass market lines.  Cruising on Seabourn is different than cruising on Regent is different than Silverseas, etc. etc.  Those who routinely cruise on these higher end lines have the same kind of discussions (i.e. which line is better) than those who are on the mass market lines.

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Do you think that Celebrity will hold the line on their latest high prices?  🙂

Why not they are selling out on all the future cruises we are booked on at these new high prices. It is almost like Celebrity has a mindset that if they price their Retreat class cabins high, people will have the perception that they are a real luxury experience.

Edited February 20, 2023 by terrydtx

[NutsAboutGolf]

5 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Why not they are selling out on all the future cruises we are booked on at these new high prices. It is almost like Celebrity has a mindset that if they price their Retreat class cabins high, people will have the perception that they are a real luxury experience.

Seems like they’re getting more aggressive with the dynamic pricing model.  Start initial pricing high and progressively lower the pricing if occupancy isn’t where it needs to be.  Currently X is actively pricing the Mexican Rivera sailings at “fire sail” levels

[jelayne]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:00 AM, terrydtx said:

 

We are in a Sky Suite so we will be able to dine in Luminae, but even those menus have been tweaked some recently. The only lobster is some kind of lobster casserole and the surf and turf is now Scallops and pork belly.

The Luminae menu for our April sailing is still showing filet, poached lobster and scallops. Pork belly is an appetizer.  

[terrydtx]

6 minutes ago, jelayne said:

The Luminae menu for our April sailing is still showing filet, poached lobster and scallops. Pork belly is an appetizer.  

Both our June Equinox and September Apex cruise have no poached lobster or the filet on the first night. Both menus show the scallops and pork belly for the surf and turf.

Edited February 20, 2023 by terrydtx

[helen haywood]

On 2/19/2023 at 11:42 AM, NMTraveller said:

Is it true that the shrimp cocktail has shrunk?

 

If so does anyone have pictures.  I am just wondering how many I should order.

Yes, on the Equinox last month the shrimp cocktail had gone from five or so shrimp to three.  I counted several nights.