Well, this is disconcerting…

[mmbcater]

Meanwhile the Seascape got 100% in February!

 

[karmamule]

8 minutes ago, mmbcater said:

Meanwhile the Seascape got 100% in February!

 

 

We'll be on the Celebrity Summit this October and MSC Seascape next February. Both got 100 scores in their most recent reports. Here's hoping they keep their quality up and the Seaside gets its act together.

[jules815]

9 minutes ago, mmbcater said:

Meanwhile the Seascape got 100% in February!

 

How often are they inspected? Is it twice per year?

 

I haven't said anything to my husband about this story. We're on Seascape in September, B2B in the YC. Really glad to see that 100%. Gotta admit, some of these posts/reviews of late are making me a wee bit nervous.

 

[mmbcater]

6 minutes ago, jules815 said:

How often are they inspected? Is it twice per year?

 

I haven't said anything to my husband about this story. We're on Seascape in September, B2B in the YC. Really glad to see that 100%. Gotta admit, some of these posts/reviews of late are making me a wee bit nervous.

 

Yes it is supposed to be twice in a year, Seascape is a beautiful, clean ship!

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Any chance that some inspectors are simply more apt to give lower (or higher) scores? How many people make up an inspection team?

 

Tom

[shipgeeks]

1 hour ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Well, if they weren't "dim" to begin with, one shallow dive might do the trick...

 

Tom

Except that MSC pools are known for being the deepest in the industry.  People have complained that they are too deep to just stand in them all day and drink.

[morpheusofthesea]

1 hour ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

Any chance that some inspectors are simply more apt to give lower (or higher) scores?

One might think that a score of 67 for 104 violations was rather 'generous'.

[GPPhilly]

Honestly, what did the expect.  The Seaside just got the US and they could have expected an inspection.  Someone needs to be fired over this.  

[Homosassa]

28 minutes ago, morpheusofthesea said:

One might think that a score of 67 for 104 violations was rather 'generous'.

Not really.

 

Score is based on if the violation is  a critical compliance item or a non critical compliance item, and the number of occurrences  of each violation.

 

That is why if one looks at the inspection report, there can be a good number of violations of non critical compliance items but the score for the inspection still show as in the nineties.

[Brighton Line]

28 minutes ago, morpheusofthesea said:

One might think that a score of 67 for 104 violations was rather 'generous'.

It's graded on a scale depending on the type of violation and the impact on general health and safety. There are even automatic failures, though that has never happened.

 

You can get the latest manual here:

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/pub.htm#anchor_1556115898803

 

Cruise ships are scored on a 100-point scale. Inspection criteria are defined in the current VSP Operations Manual. Criteria are assigned a point value; points are deducted from the score when there is a pattern of similar violations of the same criteria or when there is a single, significant violation.

Points are deducted from that score based on public health significance. 

[B_A_H]

This isn't an "MSC thing" per se.  It's an individual ship management thing. 

 

There's nothing about the Seaside vs. Seascape physically that would make one cleaner than the other.  It's the culture and oversight onboard set by the ship's management and leadership that allowed for all the Seaside's lapses. 

 

And regardless what anyone says about the insignificance of some of items in the report, no mainstream passenger ship has missed that many in decades.  Sanitation items and food not being stored properly or at the right temperature are a pretty big deal on a floating city of 5,000 people. 

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, Brighton Line said:

They also surprisingly didn't file a corrective action report showing what they will do to prevent this in the future or argue the specific violation was unjust/incorrect. 

Normally, a corrective action report is not filed for several weeks afterwards, after all department heads have responded, and corporate compliance and corporate legal have vetted it.

 

7 hours ago, Homosassa said:

Many of the violations are reported several different ways (I'll get you, my Pretty, and your little dog, too" style of reporting) and could have appeared only once.

This is not the case, and the reason that the same violation is reported multiple times is that they fall under several "item numbers", which relate to various sections of the VSP, so one finding can violate several regulations, and needs to be reported in each, so that as you say later, the number of violations for each section can be determined, and the severity of the "cultural" infraction can be weighed.  I have been through many USPH inspections, and unlike you, I don't see any pettiness or vindictive reports of violations anywhere in the report.

 

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

while others are kind of silly. (lack of a depth indicator for the pool? Come on!)

If the ship is intended to be used in the US market at any time in its life, it must meet the USPH construction regulations (a whole separate manual from the VSP operations manual), and the depth marker is part of that.  If the ship has not had a USPH construction survey at new build, it will have one before it is allowed to sail to US ports, so again, the marker would have been there.  Since it is not there now, it means that it was painted over.  While minor, it is a violation, but it does not get the same weight of score as the food found out of temperature.  Typically, when the corrective action report is posted, it contains all the same verbiage as the inspection report, but with the actual points taken for each violation noted, so you may get to see what I mean.  There are many cases where a violation like this pool marking is noted as a violation, and yet zero points are taken away on the inspection score.  

 

Frankly, what I see is a lack of "USPH culture" onboard, where the crew are trained so that whatever they need to do to meet the regulations becomes second nature to them, part of their everyday work routine, and does not require conscious thought.  This is a failure of all departments, and many supervisors.  One poster said they thought the head chef was responsible for the entire galley, but in an operation the size of a cruise ship, this is not possible.

 

The way that NCL assigns responsibility is that the Staff Captain is in overall charge of meeting USPH regulations.  Then, the Hotel Manager, Chief Engineer, and Staff Chief Engineer supervise their various departments and supervisors to ensure the regulations are met.  This includes the engineering department for potable water management, lighting, and ventilation throughout the ship, the Staff Chief's hotel maintenance department for maintaining all the galley and laundry equipment (dishwashers, leaks, etc), the Head Housekeeper for the cabins and pantries, the Executive chef for food safety procedures, the Sanitation Supervisor for operation and cleaning of dishes and cleaning the galley areas, the Medical staff for the Medical Center, the Youth staff for the kid's center, the Environmental Officer for the garbage and recycling areas, and so on.

 

We would have weekly inspections by 30 or so supervisors, of the entire ship, to look for USPH violations.  We would be in teams of one supervisor from the area being inspected (like a chef in a galley), and one supervisor from another department (like the laundry supervisor with that chef) to provide "outside eyes" to see things that the everyday user goes "blind" to.  Only when the supervisors and crew are all following the regulations every single minute of every single day, will a ship score highly on a repeated basis.

Edited May 5, 2023 by chengkp75

[kelleherdl]

I think we have all been waiting for your appraisal chengkp75. I for one broadly interpreted your assessment of the report to be that there a quite a few officers on the MSC Seaside, in pardon the pun, ‘deep doo-doo.’

[1kaper]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:04 PM, ZoeyVictoria said:

We are scheduled to be on the ship on Sunday 😢.  I will not count on boarding the ship at the usual time.

 

me too! 

[Boozy O Croozy]

We've been aboard Seaside all week since 4/30. Nothing but crew cleaning, for in Yacht Club amazing. Everyone keep in mind that CruiseLaw news is the TMZ of cruising.

 

There are no issues on board, everyone is having a blast.

[freewilly]

17 minutes ago, Boozy O Croozy said:

We've been aboard Seaside all week since 4/30. Nothing but crew cleaning, for in Yacht Club amazing. Everyone keep in mind that CruiseLaw news is the TMZ of cruising.

 

There are no issues on board, everyone is having a blast.

Great to hear! On her later this month. We figured we will be on the cleanest ship or the dirtiest.  Either way.. we are on a ship having fun. 

[IsanTom]

On 5/4/2023 at 2:56 PM, HUNKY said:

Just read that MSC Seaside failed their latest CDC inspection.

 

67 out of 100, the fourth lowest score in the past twenty years of all CDC inspections.  UGH!

I've been reading the reviews from April, mostly 4 night cruisers, and they are really bad. April cruises were during Spring Break when the ships were packed with lots of children. I'm sure the cruises were at capacity and more. The CDC inspection was also during or after Spring Break which is why the ship wasn't prepared for this being over worked and short of people needed to take care of this over capacity of cruisers. I personally would never take a Spring Break cruise because of this. I have only taken about 6 MSC cruises, but I have not experienced the overcrowding that happened last month, so I feel bad for the first time cruisers who experienced long waits for everything and running out of food. Incredible! I'm looking forward to our Seaside cruise on May 14th and I believe I will enjoy a nice experience, as I have before on MSC Ships. I will write a review after I return. Happy cruising to all!

[B_A_H]

39 minutes ago, IsanTom said:

The CDC inspection was also during or after Spring Break which is why the ship wasn't prepared for this being over worked and short of people needed to take care of this over capacity of cruisers. 

Sanitation and food safety aren't episodic.  Meaning, they should be an integral part of the operation and culture of the ship or venue.  "Wasn't prepared" shouldn't matter.  They should always be prepared, not just in case of an inspection but for the health and safety of passengers and crew.  There's no legitimate excuse for the ship's score. 

[Homosassa]

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Normally, a corrective action report is not filed for several weeks afterwards, after all department heads have responded, and corporate compliance and corporate legal have vetted it.

 

This is not the case, and the reason that the same violation is reported multiple times is that they fall under several "item numbers", which relate to various sections of the VSP, so one finding can violate several regulations, and needs to be reported in each, so that as you say later, the number of violations for each section can be determined, and the severity of the "cultural" infraction can be weighed.  I have been through many USPH inspections, and unlike you, I don't see any pettiness or vindictive reports of violations anywhere in the report.

 

 

I didn't say the items were petty or vindictive.

 

I was explaining the evaluation process where the reviewer will group the similar items together by similarities; i.e.; dirty food contact areas #1, #2, #3; food out of temp #1, #2, #3.

 

It helps to see the pattern and sometimes can lead to suggestions that will help.

[bruce85]

Well we sail in 22 days. I'm sure all will be taken care of by then. Fourth MSC cruise, and have another booked next year. But this report will be in the back of my head for the cruise. 

[IsanTom]

2 hours ago, B_A_H said:

Sanitation and food safety aren't episodic.  Meaning, they should be an integral part of the operation and culture of the ship or venue.  "Wasn't prepared" shouldn't matter.  They should always be prepared, not just in case of an inspection but for the health and safety of passengers and crew.  There's no legitimate excuse for the ship's score. 

I agree with you, but most ships are sailing with a shortage of cruise members and each bed on the ship is occupied during Spring Break, something has to give. Reading the bad reviews during April, long lines getting food and drink, running out of food on the buffets and private islands, this isn't normal

operations. I believe the May reviews will be more positive due to less occupancy and children. I'm also sure most of the health safety issues will have been addressed and corrected. I'm looking forward

to a nice cruise on Seaside in one week. Think positive and you'll have a wonderful cruise!

 

[B_A_H]

19 minutes ago, IsanTom said:

I agree with you, but most ships are sailing with a shortage of cruise members and each bed on the ship is occupied during Spring Break, something has to give. Reading the bad reviews during April, long lines getting food and drink, running out of food on the buffets and private islands, this isn't normal

operations. I believe the May reviews will be more positive due to less occupancy and children. I'm also sure most of the health safety issues will have been addressed and corrected. I'm looking forward

to a nice cruise on Seaside in one week. Think positive and you'll have a wonderful cruise!

 

Nothing you're saying or have said should have any impact on the issues in the report. Sanitation and food safety have nothing to do with passenger volume.  Focusing on food safety, the ship was certified to to carry up to 5,336 per MSC and food storage, preparation, and service are designed with that in mind.  So a full ship has nothing to do with basic hygiene and proper food handing procedures. 

 

Other cruise lines and individual ships have staffing issues.  No ship in decades got a lower score than the Seaside.  There are areas you don't compromise in and this is one of them.  This was a major management and leadership failure on the Seaside.  That needs to be fixed more importantly than checking the boxes off as complete on the list of failures.

 

If someone who is immunosuppressed eats bacteria laden chicken that wasn't stored properly they could get seriously ill or die. I work in a hotel so understand the seriousness of this.  If our kitchen gets 95 out of 100 in a state or brand inspection which is above passing we're still concerned. We serve hundreds for banquets and one food safety or handling lapse could make people ill, ruin our reputation, and open us up to liability. 

 

Those of you blowing this off don't understand the implications of what the Seaside's abysmal score represents and the impact it has on passenger and crew safety.

[ddlb]

Well at least they didn't keep corpse in drink cooler like Celebrity did 🤔

[mimi7ccr]

We are on the Seaside for the 5/28 7-day sailing and I sure hope all the deficiencies are corrected by then and it doesn't impact our trip.  I noted that those who are on the Seaside right now seem to be having a wonderful time with no issues.  I'm pretty sure all problems will be addressed ASAP and we will be able to sail as planned.  

 

[lcpagejr]

I have nothing but fond memories of Seaside ...Cruised her in YC in 2018 and 2019. Great staff and beautiful ship. MSC will get her right.  I think part of  the downfall were them going to 3/4 day cruises to compete with the "big" boys. When we began cruising MSC always 7+ day cruises.... We are on Seascape , in YC, over Thanksgiving and we can't wait to experience the YC  and MSC again