Overcrowded ports on itinerary with ships

[DrKoob]

18 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

That sounds like it would be lovely. November would be more difficult for us than spring, but I may need to look into that concept more as I read more. We’ve travelled a lot in Spring as that is our best time. We really do prefer earlier than this itinerary. I am not aware of a lot of small ship November itineraries though, so would need to do some homework. Thank you. 

Oceania has a 10 night cruise on Riviera in November 2023 (as a for instance) that stops in Athens (Piraeus) | Kavala/Philippi | Istanbul | Istanbul | Messina (Sicily) | Naples/Pompeii | Rome (Civitavecchia) | Florence/Pisa/Tuscany (Livorno) | Provence (Marseille) | Barcelona. 

 

Sirena is doing a 10 night in November with this itinerary: Athens (Piraeus) | Mitilini (Lesbos) | Istanbul | Istanbul | Ephesus (Kusadasi) | Syros | Valletta | Messina (Sicily) | Salerno | Rome (Civitavecchia)

 

Viking Ocean has a couple of ships in the Med in November including a 14 night that hits: Athens (Piraeus) | Athens (Piraeus) | Ephesus (Kusadasi) | Crete (Souda Bay) | Sicily (Messina) | Naples | Rome (Civitavecchia) | Florencepisa (Livorno) | Florencepisa (Livorno) | Monte Carlo | Marseille | Montpellier (Sete) | Barcelona  

 

So there are cruises in November out there on decent ships..  

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by DrKoob

[Hanoj]

22 minutes ago, DrKoob said:

If you can do it, travel in November. We have done Santorini, Mykonos and Rhodes in November and we were the only ships there. Most of the TA cruises happen before then. Was it cold, nope but it wasn't shorts weather either. In Santorini we went up and down the gondola without standing in a line for more than five minutes.  

Great recommendation, for those with such flexibility. I would sooner deal with some cool and inclement weather than throngs of pax. This I would want to weigh against the likelihood of rougher seas.

[the mice]

Over the years, we have traveled a number of times in the Mediterranean area (land and cruise) in late October-November (even up to the beginning of December) and have enjoyed mostly great weather on these trips.  Not shorts or swimming weather in general, but often wearing tee shirts.  Weather is always a concern, but we have rarely experienced rain for more than a day on any trip.  Lack of crowds more than makes up for that.  The biggest difference between spring and fall is the hours of daylight.  

[LHT28]

9 hours ago, Tranquility Base said:

I wouldn’t have thought it would be too difficult for someone on the ship to get the ETD info of other ships there on the day and share that with the passengers.

After all, isn’t it those little extra efforts which differentiate a Luxury line from many of the others.

 

Maybe on a Luxury line  they do  but we are talking Oceania

 

You can easily find  what ships are in the ports   by looking  at the port schedules

[cruisemom42]

9 hours ago, Hanoj said:

Great recommendation, for those with such flexibility. I would sooner deal with some cool and inclement weather than throngs of pax. This I would want to weigh against the likelihood of rougher seas.

 

Almost all of my dozen Med cruises have been in April or late October/November timeframe. Only twice (out of probably close to 100 ports on those dozen cruises) did the ship miss a port of call, once was Delos/Mykonos (which is frequently missed at any time during the season due to the winds) and once was Rome -- that was a pretty bad storm, so much so that the port actually closed, which RARELY happens.  Even then, on a small ship of about 350 passengers, it did not feel that rough.

[Tranquility Base]

22 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Maybe on a Luxury line  they do  but we are talking Oceania

 

Indeed we are.

I am simply reading from their website where Oceania have their paragraph “ “Introducing simply MORE”.

They finish with the words……” for the best value in luxury cruising”.

 

[MEFIowa]

Reminds me of why my wife and I try to book cruises OUT of the peak season. So we're doing our 20 nights in the Med off Riviera 10/30-11/19/2023. And the Baltic off Sirena 9/9-19/2024. We did the E. Caribbean early off Sirena (11/2022) and the W. Caribbean off Riviera (12/2021), before winter really hits and while kids still in school.

[Vineyard View]

We’ve traveled in October in the Mediterranean. It was lovely. It was a favorite time of year other than Apr/early May. We generally stick with Spring now. The reason being that we’ve had a lot of wildfires the past number of years here. Three evacuations experienced, and one fire hitting our property in 2020 causing a lot of damage. We were gone during one and it it not something I want to repeat. That said, starting mid- later November we are more comfortable with this idea, but I was worried about weather. So this is helpful. Thank you all. I may have to re-think some ideas. I still love April travel though more so than May due to crowds. 

[Hambagahle]

We did a Riviera cruise in November one year - Venice to Rome.   It was very very rainy in both Venice and Naples.  Since we have been to Venice a lot we just treated the day as a sea day.  But Naples was disappointing because we had booked a tour to Herculaneum.   And had to cancel it.   Otherwise the weather was lovely.  Even able to sit out on the balcony when in Malta.   My personal favourite time for the area is October or April.  We can get to Italy in under an hour and to, say, Lucca, in 5 or 6.  So we can pick and choose.

 

I live in Switzerland and everywhere is jammed with tourists this year.  There were 3 years when people really couldn't travel and now they have money and want to travel.  Which is understandable but that means crowds everywhere aside from small towns that are not "names" in the tourist world.

[Mick B]

Hi,

I have been to Santorini 3 times and luckily all 3 times we were able to get the tender due to calm weather and the cable car up and down as it was always October time when we went. There was always another ship in, but the queue for the cable car was never more than 5 minutes either end. 

 

Another problem with the area too is that the weather can turn bad in an area nearby which may force a ship to cancel that port and go elsewhere forcing more passengers into another location and if that is an island like Santorini they choose to try for, then that is bad for overcrowding.

It is a lovely island with some lovely shops and restaurants with views at the top to die for. Also the wife tried one of those fish shops where you put your feet in a tank of fish for an hour or so to have them nibble all your bad skin away. She loved it! 

 

With Mykanos, there is only room for one ship at the port and others will tender nearby and take you by boat to the main town. I have done both and prefer the tender boat as getting from the port to the town requires either a long walk in the heat or taxi rides both ways. I think you can get a water taxi to/from the port too for a few euros each way.

 

These are my favourite 2 islands in that area and I last was in 2021 on the Jewel out of Cyprus. Luckily, again, we had plenty time in both ports, which is important as you have to factor in getting to and from the ship to the town and you don't want to miss the ship and getting stuck.

 

Yes, you can do ship excursions, which costs, but you should also be able to do you own thing providing you have the time at the port and it is not overrun with cruise ships.

 

The weather at that time of year there has been hotter than anytime in the UK the rest of the year and I am not a fan of the sun anyway, so don't wear shorts, but I have always been comfortable with jeans and a long shirt and been OK with the heat. 

 

It is always worth checking what days you are at certain ports and how long and checking other cruise ship sites to see what ships are going to be there too.

 

As mentioned before, these islands are not guaranteed if the weather turns bad and I don't even mean very bad, just bad enough for it to become unsafe to use the tenders. I have been lucky but I know of family and friends who have travelled to these ports only for it to be cancelled on the morning of arrival.

 

Anyway, if you have not been to them, then you should. One other thing you could do is put off a trip for a year or two to allow all those in desperate need of a holiday to get it out of their system and then the crowds may die down enough to avoid overcrowding as some people are just spending money they have spare from lockdown and once its gone its gone.

 

Mick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lastdance]

I believe one of the best ways to see the Greek islands is by ferry; of course, that would require making a land reservation too.  This year, I was lucky to visit Zakynthos, which was so memorable.  I also enjoyed Corfu; both islands from a Celebrity cruise!  Next time, I will do a land stay.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Lastdance

[Azulann]

First cruise to Eastern Med was early Sept years ago, very very hot. Second time it was in late Oct -mid November. perfect weather and no crowds.

We are going on 10 day Greek Odyssey on Viking Star in Feb 2025. they call it the "Quiet Season".

Fine with me. Like others I am interested in  the history and historical sites of the  places I will visit. Half of the  ports are repeat and other half are new. 

 I loved  the Corinth  tour we did years ago. Went to the Corinth  ruins and the nice museum on site, and then took a boat through he Corinth Canal. it was a great day. 

 

 This future cruise,I I  will even get off ship on Santorini  if we are the only ship in the caldera. 🙂

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Azulann

[Vineyard View]

Thank you for all the responses. What prompted me to start this thread was looking at port schedules, and discovering those where it looks to be overbooked with ships. In Santorini for example all the ships are there for the entire day. 
I have noticed Viking’s ‘quiet season’ but have never taken a deep dive.  Maybe I should. Thanks for that prompt. 
‘This thread has me rethinking travel time a little bit for this itinerary. Another itinerary we like on another line, while pricier, is a month earlier to more off the beaten track ports with only two ports sharing any ship port time (Dubrovnik and Kotor - which we’ve been to) but not to the degree of sharing numbers of ships on this itinerary. 

[cluso]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:23 AM, LHT28 said:

 

 

You can easily find  what ships are in the ports   by looking  at the port schedules

 

Whatsinport.com is pretty reliable and includes lots of local information, maps, etc.

[lackcreativity]

On 7/6/2023 at 6:15 PM, Vineyard View said:

On 7/6/2023 at 6:15 PM, Vineyard View said:

Well, Santorini sounds like a place we should have chosen to go long ago. What a shame that they do not control some of this crowding. Dubrovnik finally has and it in my opinion was a smart idea.

 

 

On our first ocean cruise we selected a late April - early May sail date. We ended up in Santorini on May 1, 2017. Upon arrival in port, our guide explained that the season hadn't really started yet and that some places were not open. However, our Viking ship was the only ship docked there that day. We saw some shop owners painting and setting up their stores, but there were some shops and restaurants that were open. We rarely shop when traveling, but we did take time to have lunch at a nice place with a view that was priceless. Even as a cruise newbie, I knew at the time that we were experiencing something very rare. What a great memory!

Edited July 8, 2023 by lackcreativity

[clo]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:02 AM, Vineyard View said:

I started researching cruise timetables to understand better how many ships we will be in port with at some of the locations. I realize that may be just the case to always expect at a couple we have not been to (ie Santorini, Palma De Mallorca) but I was nonetheless a bit surprised. I also realize time of year has an impact (our sail date is 5/18 and 14 days), so maybe these places are better to visit at other times. Santorini will have 4 ships 9,900 pax, Palma de Mallorca 8,800 pax - these are the two I am most concerned with from an ability to enjoy them standpoint having never been. Barcelona, we have been to and stayed multiple times is embarkation (so not as concerned), but 5 ships, 13k+ pax. Rome, disembarkation so not as concerned, also been to, but six ships. Athens, we have been to, 9,640 pax so is it even worth revisiting and getting off the ship. Argostoli we have not  been 3300 pax. Valletta we have been but 4130 pax.  Several others have ships in port but not like these. 
I think I would mostly appreciate input as we have never been, would be on Palma de Mallorca, Santorini, and Argostoli. We experienced Malta with a big MSC ship this year and it was impactful - thank goodness it sailed early. Thank you 

 

Old thread but I'll put in that I wouldn't return to Santorini if I were paid to. NEVER. Gratefully we weren't on a cruise, just DIYing. This would have probably been in late May. A store owner there said that some Chinese parties come there to have their wedding photos taken. Not to get married just get the pix taken! Yes, it beautiful but a mobbed mess.

[thebsinmiss]

As pointed out previously we went through the port schedules (whatsinport) and built a spread sheet of ships/passenger counts/scheduled hours and we are planning our excursions based in part on that information.   Some O excursions for busy ports, private guided for really busy, self directed town walking for non crowded and some we may not even get off the boat !

 

Pre covid we did a Caribbean cruise and encountered a whole fleet of mega ships all in port. I believe the combined capacity was over 20,000 passengers.  Had been there before so we stayed on board and absolutely relaxed in the spa area all day. Best single day on a cruise I have ever had 

[Woodrowst]

On 7/6/2023 at 11:42 PM, Tranquility Base said:

I wouldn’t have thought it would be too difficult for someone on the ship to get the ETD info of other ships there on the day and share that with the passengers.

After all, isn’t it those little extra efforts which differentiate a Luxury line from many of the others.

 

That would be true if Oceania were a luxury line.  But it isn’t.  Oceania ads to the contrary, objective cruise reviewing sites list Oceania squarely in the premium category (i.e between mainstream and luxury).  If you sail on luxury lines such as Seabourn, Silversea, and Crystal you will experience the difference.

 

[TRLD]

With Santorini a lot depends upon what time your ship leaves Most cruise ships leave around 4 -5. If your ship leaves at 6 or later not much issue getting down.

 

Was there last September on a 50 passenger ship. We got there at 4pm. Long line for the tram going through the tram station and down the street. By 5:30 pm the line was gone and the big ships were pulling out. Town was quite nice and calm in the evening. We left at 10pm. No line and cars half empty.

 

The port very tightly controls when you can pick up and drop off passengers.

Edited March 5 by TRLD

[clo]

4 hours ago, clo said:

Old thread but I'll put in that I wouldn't return to Santorini if I were paid to. NEVER. Gratefully we weren't on a cruise, just DIYing. This would have probably been in late May. A store owner there said that some Chinese parties come there to have their wedding photos taken. Not to get married just get the pix taken! Yes, it beautiful but a mobbed mess.

Oops, late April.

[clo]

4 hours ago, thebsinmiss said:

and built a spread sheet of ships/passenger counts/scheduled hours

I'm curious, what kinds of calculations does the spreadsheets do for you?

[Tranquility Base]

3 hours ago, Woodrowst said:

That would be true if Oceania were a luxury line.  But it isn’t.  Oceania ads to the contrary, objective cruise reviewing sites list Oceania squarely in the premium category (i.e between mainstream and luxury).

Which objective cruise reviewing sites do you refer to ? 

 

[Hlitner]

Overtourism and cruise ship crowding have become the norm in most of Europe.  As Cruisemom suggested, one solution USED TO BE to cruse in the shoulder seasons of March-May and Sept-Nov.  But even this is no longer a great solution.  Consider we are doing a long TA cruise later this month and will be in Santorini in mid-April.  But even at this relatively early date there will be 5 other ships (and more then 10,000 passengers at that island.  We like to point out the the cable car up to Fira can only move 900 per hour (one-way_.

 

But Santorini is only one out of many with overtourism.  This year, because of many cruise line itinerary changes (to avoid the Red Sea, Turkey, etc) things are worse then usual.  And it will continue to get worse as cruise lines continue to build huge mega-ships (some carry over 6000).  When we plan long independent driving trips in Europe, we generally make sure to avoid cruise ports or places that are within range of cruise excursions.  In fact, DW and I have started looking at it like a game, trying to avoid the crush of fellow cruisers when we are not on a ship.

 

Even when we go to crowded ports, we tend to go off on our own and will often go to places not visited by cruise ship excursions.  The downside is that cruise ships in both Europe and Asia do go to many of the best places.

 

Hank

[thebsinmiss]

2 hours ago, clo said:

I'm curious, what kinds of calculations does the spreadsheets do for you?

No calculations - simple way to lay out all the information and plan options for each port. More a calendar and one page visual summary.

[clo]

19 minutes ago, thebsinmiss said:

No calculations - simple way to lay out all the information and plan options for each port. More a calendar and one page visual summary.

Thanks. Mystery solved 🙂