New Specialty Restaurant Pricing

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, friendswithdave said:

 

No, I see her precise point, and I think it is lost on most. We (like everyone else) pay gratuities daily. These gratuities (presumably) cover all service staff including those who serve us in restaurants. If we choose to eat in restaurant B instead of MDR A, why would we pay two gratuities? We have already paid once in our daily payment. By paying a second time, we are essentially paying a gratuity for a meal we didn't attend in the MDR and one we did attend in restaurant B.

 

Keep in mind they didn't used to charge gratuities for the specialty restaurants. They understood my point above. Do we think the specialty restaurant service staff didn't receive gratuities before? Of course they did. This is just the cruise lines charging new fees they didn't used to charge. I would wager these additional funds aren't going to service staff. 

 

And there in lies the problem.  Those gratuities you and she are referring to cover most staff, but not all.  As I previously stated, the staff in specialty dining were not included in the crew incentive program.  Not everyone uses them or goes to specialty dining.  Before this came into effect, we did tip when we ate there as we were aware that they were not included.   We were not alone doing so.

 

It’s the same thing when you order a drink - a gratuity is added to the cost of the drink as the bar servers have their own pool which is tip based.  

 

And I would wager the extra funds do go to the service staff.  The bar staff certainly receive theirs.  

[terrydtx]

We cruise with HAL and add the HIA option with an included specialty restaurant credit, that we generally use for the Pinnacle grill. I would assume the new pricing will have no effect on those HIA credits.

[friendswithdave]

36 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

And there in lies the problem.  Those gratuities you and she are referring to cover most staff, but not all.  As I previously stated, the staff in specialty dining were not included in the crew incentive program.  Not everyone uses them or goes to specialty dining.  Before this came into effect, we did tip when we ate there as we were aware that they were not included.   We were not alone doing so.

 

It’s the same thing when you order a drink - a gratuity is added to the cost of the drink as the bar servers have their own pool which is tip based.  

 

And I would wager the extra funds do go to the service staff.  The bar staff certainly receive theirs.  

With this logic, it would then be appropriate for me to reduce the daily gratuity by a similar amount when I attend a specialty restaurant. Why would I pay a gratuity for a restaurant I didn't attend?

[cruisemom42]

I'm curious -- for those Mariners (4/5 stars) that receive a 50% discount on specialty dining, do you get charged the full 18% gratuity?  And what about those who receive "free" meals -- are you still charged the 18%?  

[terrydtx]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

I'm curious -- for those Mariners (4/5 stars) that receive a 50% discount on specialty dining, do you get charged the full 18% gratuity?  And what about those who receive "free" meals -- are you still charged the 18%?  

By Free do you mean the SR credit included in HIA? In that case there is not a charge up front for the 18% gratuity. We used the HIA credit last year on the Oosterdam in the Pinnacle Grill and I do not believe we were charged the 18% the night we used it either. 

[cruisemom42]

Just now, terrydtx said:

By Free do you mean the SR credit included in HIA? In that case there is not a charge up front for the 18% gratuity. We used the HIA credit last year on the Oosterdam in the Pinnacle Grill and I do not believe we were charged the 18% the night we used it either. 

 

No, I was specifically asking about the Mariner Benefit. The HIA literature makes it clear that the gratuities for those benefits offered (such as the beverage package and the dining) are also included.

[cbr663]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

....

 

The tipping culture really HAS run amuck, IMO.....

 

 

 

I don't wish to derail this thread into a tipping thread - just wanted to agree with your comment that the tipping culture has run amuck.  I'm Canadian and right now we pay an additional 32% premium (exchange rate) and there are times it really has me pause.

 

Take a dinner for 2 in Ruddi's.  $55 pp x 2 + 18% + 32% exchange = $171.34 CDN.  I'm glad we tried it on our recent cruise.  We won't be going back though as the value wasn't there for us.

[terrydtx]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

No, I was specifically asking about the Mariner Benefit. The HIA literature makes it clear that the gratuities for those benefits offered (such as the beverage package and the dining) are also included.

Thanks, that is what I thought.

[VMax1700]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I'm curious -- for those Mariners (4/5 stars) that receive a 50% discount on specialty dining, do you get charged the full 18% gratuity?  And what about those who receive "free" meals -- are you still charged the 18%?  

For free meals (ie Have It All promo etc) the gratuity is included in the package, so no additional charge.

If a 4/5 star 'buys' a speciality restaurant meal then the gratuity is based on the full price.

e.g. ($YY - 50%)+ ($YY x 0.18) = price charged to account.

[cbr663]

I think that these increases may be simply a pre-curser for an increase in the HIA charge.  My guess is that most dinners at Tamarind, PG and Cannalito are discounted purchases either via Marnier Status or Promotional purchases so these increases actually have a minimal impact in overall cover charge.  The success of the HIA though is the perception of value and what better way to increase the cost of the HIA than to increase the perceived value by increasing the prices of the items included in the HIA.

[ChinaShrek]

9 hours ago, Crew News said:

On the Nieuw Amsterdam, go to the Deck 9 Spa entrance at the end of the indoor pool and there will be a podium nearby for making Specialty Restaurant reservations.  The podium is there only on Embarkation Day until 2:00 PM. 

 

I have found this podium to be present on Embarkation Day on my last six cruise ships and never a waiting line.

Just use the app as soon as you get on the ship to make Pinnacle Grill reservations. No need to line up or interact with people.

[FlorenceItaly]

Just now, ChinaShrek said:

Just use the app as soon as you get on the ship to make Pinnacle Grill reservations. No need to line up or interact with people.

Does the app give you capability to book lunches at the Pinnacle?

[ChinaShrek]

Just now, FlorenceItaly said:

Does the app give you capability to book lunches at the Pinnacle?

It did for me!

[FlorenceItaly]

Just now, ChinaShrek said:

It did for me!

Thank you!!

[terrydtx]

Just for comparison, we also sail on Celebrity and their Fine Cut Steak House is about the equivalent to PG has a $65 + 18% cover charge. HAL is still a better deal.

[Heidi13]

16 hours ago, scooter6139 said:

The Surf and Turf in the Crown Grill costs an additional $10 or so on top of the cover charge, but that was last year.  I don't know if it has changed since then.

 

These are new charges since we dumped Princess.

 

You could order 2 steaks or steak and halibut and it was included in the cover charge, which was $20/$25, with no additional gratuities added. When our son was off-shift and joined us for dinner, he routinely had 2 filets, no extra charge.

[POA1]

1 hour ago, VMax1700 said:

For free meals (ie Have It All promo etc) the gratuity is included in the package, so no additional charge.

If a 4/5 star 'buys' a speciality restaurant meal then the gratuity is based on the full price.

e.g. ($YY - 50%)+ ($YY x 0.18) = price charged to account.

 

Yes, indeed. Your gratuity / tip / service charge / crew appreciation / other euphemism not listed is on the undiscounted amount.

 

If $X is the cost of the Pinnacle Grill, Tamarind, or Canaletto, then we pay $X/2 + (0.18 x $X)

$YY is the Irish spelling of $X.

[Heidi13]

16 hours ago, kazu said:

 

The daily service charge is for the MDR/Lido waiters, you cabin steward and all the many people behind the scenes that clean your hallways, laundry, etc.

 

Specialty dining staff are not included in it.  Never have been as far as I know and very few of us tipped.

You don’t have to go to specialty dining if you don’t want.  But bottom line - no the daily service charge does not cover specialty - not everyone goes there so it’s not the same philosophy.

 

We haven't yet sailed with HAL and I didn't know any shoreside staff until the previous Carnival re-org created the Holland America Group with Princess. Based on my many years with Princess, when specialty dining and the daily discretionary service charges were introduced, they did not charge additional tips in the specialty/alternative restaurants. Even as recently as our last Princess in 2015, I don't recall seeing any additional charges for the Steak House, other than the $20 or $25 cover charge.

 

Since Princess was Carnivalised in 2003, I suspect Princess & HAL had many similarities, so I will be very surprised if additional service charges were added when specialty restaurants were first re-introduced back in the 1990's (again not sure when HAL introduced them).

 

With respect to specialty restaurant staff not being included in the tip pool, this is probably something the cruise line would like you to believe, but few, especially pax, fully know how the tip pool works and exactly who is included. As a Senior Bridge Watchkeeping Officer for a number of years, even our son was not privy to that information.

 

The Hotel crew generally work about 11-12 hrs per day to a maximum of 14 hrs, with MLC requiring a minimum of 10 hrs off per 24 hrs and 77 hrs off per 7 days. Daily rest can be split in 2 periods, provided 1 of them is at least 6 hrs. The specialty restaurants are not open for sufficient hours to provide crew members with their required daily hours, so normal practice is for split shifts, with the additional daily hours worked in other dining venues.

 

If the specialty restaurant staff are not included in the tip pool, how do they resolve their additional hours of work, when working in other dining areas that are included in the tip pool. I'll suggest few onboard fully know how the system works, and even less pax know exactly who is included, whether it is paid by individual cruise, averaged fleet wide, percentage provided to individual crew, how it is paid, etc. Therefore, we have no way of knowing that specialty dining staff are NOT included in the daily service charge pool.

 

All information I have ever seen regarding the discretionary service charges provided by cruise lines is highly generic. I freely admit to not knowing how it works, but at least with Princess, do know that it has changed considerably since the inception and I expect HAL is similar.

[albingirl]

46 minutes ago, POA1 said:

 

Yes, indeed. Your gratuity / tip / service charge / crew appreciation / other euphemism not listed is on the undiscounted amount.

 

If $X is the cost of the Pinnacle Grill, Tamarind, or Canaletto, then we pay $X/2 + (0.18 x $X)

$YY is the Irish spelling of $X.

Haha, now I'm totally confused.  Not that it's unusual for me lol.

[Haljo1935]

I know it's been covered ad nauseum, but a quick search didn't land me on the answer, so here we go.

Non-HIA: If I book specialty dining now in advance (thus pre pay) and am eligible for 50% discount based on Mariner status, will it automatically be adjusted on board after we dine, or will I have to take it up w/GS?

BTW - Price showing today to book includes the 18%.

[Crew News]

After an exhaustive review of my last five onboard statements for my 5* Mariner discounts for Specialty Restaurants (except Rudi's), I have determined that for every prepaid reservation (full price plus 18% surcharge), I was refunded exactly half of the prepaid amount on my onboard account.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Crew News

[SilvertoGold]

12 minutes ago, albingirl said:

Haha, now I'm totally confused.  Not that it's unusual for me lol.

Our last cruise Pinnacle lunch was accounted for this way: 

$15 pp

$15 + 18% = $17.70

minus 50% off the $15 ($7.50) = $10.20 pp charged. 

[kazu]

4 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said:

I know it's been covered ad nauseum, but a quick search didn't land me on the answer, so here we go.

Non-HIA: If I book specialty dining now in advance (thus pre pay) and am eligible for 50% discount based on Mariner status, will it automatically be adjusted on board after we dine, or will I have to take it up w/GS?

BTW - Price showing today to book includes the 18%.

 

You will receive an on board credit for 50% of the basic cost of the specialty dining (not including the gratuity).  HAL’s been pretty good at doing that for a number of years.  You shouldn’t have to go to the guest services but, if you do prepay, a good idea to take a print out of your confirming email “in case”.  That will pretty much guarantee that it will be applied with no worry 😉 

[kazu]

23 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

We haven't yet sailed with HAL and I didn't know any shoreside staff until the previous Carnival re-org created the Holland America Group with Princess. Based on my many years with Princess, when specialty dining and the daily discretionary service charges were introduced, they did not charge additional tips in the specialty/alternative restaurants. Even as recently as our last Princess in 2015, I don't recall seeing any additional charges for the Steak House, other than the $20 or $25 cover charge.

 

Since Princess was Carnivalised in 2003, I suspect Princess & HAL had many similarities, so I will be very surprised if additional service charges were added when specialty restaurants were first re-introduced back in the 1990's (again not sure when HAL introduced them).

 

With respect to specialty restaurant staff not being included in the tip pool, this is probably something the cruise line would like you to believe, but few, especially pax, fully know how the tip pool works and exactly who is included. As a Senior Bridge Watchkeeping Officer for a number of years, even our son was not privy to that information.

 

The Hotel crew generally work about 11-12 hrs per day to a maximum of 14 hrs, with MLC requiring a minimum of 10 hrs off per 24 hrs and 77 hrs off per 7 days. Daily rest can be split in 2 periods, provided 1 of them is at least 6 hrs. The specialty restaurants are not open for sufficient hours to provide crew members with their required daily hours, so normal practice is for split shifts, with the additional daily hours worked in other dining venues.

 

If the specialty restaurant staff are not included in the tip pool, how do they resolve their additional hours of work, when working in other dining areas that are included in the tip pool. I'll suggest few onboard fully know how the system works, and even less pax know exactly who is included, whether it is paid by individual cruise, averaged fleet wide, percentage provided to individual crew, how it is paid, etc. Therefore, we have no way of knowing that specialty dining staff are NOT included in the daily service charge pool.

 

All information I have ever seen regarding the discretionary service charges provided by cruise lines is highly generic. I freely admit to not knowing how it works, but at least with Princess, do know that it has changed considerably since the inception and I expect HAL is similar.

 

To answer part of your question - the service charge was added to specialty dining, surcharge items, etc as of Feb. 1, 2023 I believe.  It is relatively new.  Pre-covid it was not in effect.  It was in effect for the bar staff, of course.

 

My comments stem from many sailings on HAL and conversations with officers & the PG manager on some of my longer cruises pre-covid.  Since we were dining in the PG for breakfast, I thought it appropriate to leave a tip and asked how to do it appropriately since we had different waiters for different parts of the breakfasts.

I was advised to just give the envelope to the PG Manager and it would be pooled among them all and that it would be most appreciated as they were not part of the HSC (it was called hotel service charge at the time.). I didn’t pry & ask for details on their compensation package but the message was quite clear.  I have no further knowledge other than what I was told.  

 

 

[Heidi13]

14 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Forgive me if I am wrong -- I've sailed a lot of different cruise lines in my time....

 

But wasn't it HAL who, when specialty dining was first introduced, rolled out the concept of the "charge" as actually being for the SERVICE not for the food?  (In those days, specialty restaurants were mainly charging in the $10 range; I'm talking waaaay back.)

 

It amuses me all the justifications about the extra service charges for specialty dining (and now specialty dining items). Up until recently, when the 18% surcharge started being added, there was never any clear language about tipping for specialty dining at all. If I hadn't read these boards, I would continue to think that the extra charge I was paying covered the "extra" food, service and venue. 

 

The tipping culture really HAS run amuck, IMO.....

 

 

 

So true.

 

I expect only a few of have experienced cruising before the days of discretionary service charges and specialty restaurants. At least you can still experience cruising without DSC in the UK & Australia markets.

 

Charging additional service charges in specialty restaurants, which I assume are non-discretionary, when crew members are part of the hotel tip pool, is the ultimate Carnival nickle & diming. Provided the pax continue to accept the practice, it will continue.

 

I recall Carnival introduced the North american tip model to the UK market with P&O and Carnival had to back down and revert it back. The crew still received their contracted wages, as stipulated by MLC, just not from the additional charges Carnival tried to levy.