Are Celebrity cost cutting and penny pinching there faithful customers off the ship?

[tfred]

1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

 

How many customers would you have had long-term if you started changing what they were getting, if you unilaterally changed refundable deposits to non-refundable, and if your idea of customer service was to require any inquiries to be made on a system that regularly required 1 to 2 hr wait times? Or if you eliminated discounts for repeat customers to enter new contracts, then raised prices, and then kept telling them what a great new deal they were getting? How about if you did all this with nary a peep to your most loyal customers? 

 

I don't disageee that Celebrity has the right under the contract to do many many things. But when they exercise that right in a fashion that inconveniences or disappoints people who have cruised with them as many as 50 to 100 times before, they can expect blowback. As many have explained, it is no individual thing--it is the number of changes without any notice to or accommodation to cruisers affected who have already paid for stuff that used to be available, and was proudly advertised, and then reduced or eliminated.

 

I suspect you paid a heckuva lot more attention to your loyal customers than Celebrity is doing.

the backdrop is that cruising has been an exceptional value especially when based against land resorts. All cruise line management says that day is over and that there should be parity.  It will happen as the X experience is pretty good

 

the NCL CEO stated the other day they are revising their occupancy slightly down (from 105% to 103.5%) since they are looking for "higher quality customers" .  Everyone will define that quote in their own way but that would be avoiding pax that don't cruise unless they have unnecessary discounts, free drinks and finding ways to finesse cruise fares.  

 

I spent the weekend at the Marriott Key Largo last weekend - 2 nights.  This property is a resort and is very similar to a cruise ship in every way.  Multiple restaurants (no prime rib!), pools, activities.  The rate for a standard room was close to $700 a night- and I am the highest lifetime tier with Marriott so if they would take care of anyone its me .  Food/booze for the two of us was probably $250. Total was pretty close to $1900 for 2 nights. Extend that a few days and you would be in Retreat area prices - and there were people staying for the whole week.  The people there were exactly who X wants to attract. 40-60 years old, looking for good food and service and will pay for it .  The menus at the hotel were very close to what you would get now on an E class ship and no one was mumbling.

 

Why would cruise lines continue with older business plans when resort hotels are raking in cash ?  If they are going to do it the time is now 

[zitsky]

8 minutes ago, tfred said:

the backdrop is that cruising has been an exceptional value especially when based against land resorts. All cruise line management says that day is over and that there should be parity.  It will happen as the X experience is pretty good

 

the NCL CEO stated the other day they are revising their occupancy slightly down (from 105% to 103.5%) since they are looking for "higher quality customers" .  Everyone will define that quote in their own way but that would be avoiding pax that don't cruise unless they have unnecessary discounts, free drinks and finding ways to finesse cruise fares.  

 

I spent the weekend at the Marriott Key Largo last weekend - 2 nights.  This property is a resort and is very similar to a cruise ship in every way.  Multiple restaurants (no prime rib!), pools, activities.  The rate for a standard room was close to $700 a night- and I am the highest lifetime tier with Marriott so if they would take care of anyone its me .  Food/booze for the two of us was probably $250. Total was pretty close to $1900 for 2 nights. Extend that a few days and you would be in Retreat area prices - and there were people staying for the whole week.  The people there were exactly who X wants to attract. 40-60 years old, looking for good food and service and will pay for it .  The menus at the hotel were very close to what you would get now on an E class ship and no one was mumbling.

 

Why would cruise lines continue with older business plans when resort hotels are raking in cash ?  If they are going to do it the time is now 

I don’t spend that much on resorts.  Cruising is still a luxury.  I can afford it but I can do without it.  I got myself into a Sky Suite right before these changes.  I’m committed to another one.  Not sure if there will be another after that or if it will be on a different cruise line.  I came from Viking.  It’s ridiculous that any company can change the conditions of travel over and over.

[Ken the cruiser]

15 minutes ago, BlackLion 213 said:

We had hoped that our cruise on Eclipse would remind us why we liked Celebrity so much, and would make us feel more comfortable with them again.

 

It did anything but. So this once-faithful Elite+ Celebrity cheerleader is looking elsewhere to spend his vacation time & money.

 

Sorry to hear that. Which recent Eclipse cruise were you on? We were on a 33-day B3B cruise in April/May of this year that included a 3-day cruise to nowhere out of Sydney followed by a transpacific cruise from Sydney to Vancouver by way of Hawaii and had a fantastic time in an Aqua cabin. But I have to say CD Eddy Jenkins had a lot to do with that regarding a fantastic entertainment schedule along with the food being pretty tasty in Blu.

[Ken the cruiser]

21 minutes ago, tfred said:

the NCL CEO stated the other day they are revising their occupancy slightly down (from 105% to 103.5%) since they are looking for "higher quality customers" .  Everyone will define that quote in their own way but that would be avoiding pax that don't cruise unless they have unnecessary discounts, free drinks and finding ways to finesse cruise fares.  

 

I don't know, I always considered us "higher quality customers", at least in my own mind. 😂 We have 5 cruises booked with NCL, all with their new 10% military discount applied, and just recently upgraded them to include their new FAS Plus promotion for an additional $49 pp/day. But then we're in our 70s, so maybe we're the new "target". 😉

 

[Bo1953]

51 minutes ago, BlackLion 213 said:

 

I regularly enjoy your posts. However, you’re missing the mark on this one.

 

I have no desire to read, decipher or debate what the contract says they are entitled to get away with once we have paid. It is always appreciated to have an alternate opinion shared here. But pointing out that our contracts essentially say that we are “sadly” out of luck, is anything but comforting.

 

The point is that many long time Celebrity loyalists book and pay in good faith expecting to receive what the website & advertising describes, and in all reality, what we have become accustomed to. It’s called expectations. And while Celebrity can apparently do whatever they want to those expectations, contract-wise, those same loyal customers are upset that Celebrity is not upholding their part of the bargain that we believe we are due. And they are doing so at the expense of said loyal passengers.

 

While I’d like to say I’ll be sharing a table with @zitsky, I likely won’t be anywhere near a Celebrity ship anytime soon.

 

[hcat]

18 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sorry to hear that. Which recent Eclipse cruise were you on? We were on a 33-day B3B cruise in April/May of this year that included a 3-day cruise to nowhere out of Sydney followed by a transpacific cruise from Sydney to Vancouver by way of Hawaii and had a fantastic time in an Aqua cabin. But I have to say CD Eddy Jenkins had a lot to do with that regarding a fantastic entertainment schedule along with the food being pretty tasty in Blu.

Eddy Jenkins is outstanding!

[Bo1953]

54 minutes ago, BlackLion 213 said:

 

I regularly enjoy your posts. However, you’re missing the mark on this one.

 

I have no desire to read, decipher or debate what the contract says they are entitled to get away with once we have paid. It is always appreciated to have an alternate opinion shared here. But pointing out that our contracts essentially say that we are “sadly” out of luck, is anything but comforting.

 

The point is that many long time Celebrity loyalists book and pay in good faith expecting to receive what the website & advertising describes, and in all reality, what we have become accustomed to. It’s called expectations. And while Celebrity can apparently do whatever they want to those expectations, contract-wise, those same loyal customers are upset that Celebrity is not upholding their part of the bargain that we believe we are due. And they are doing so at the expense of said loyal passengers.

 

While I’d like to say I’ll be sharing a table with @zitsky, I likely won’t be anywhere near a Celebrity ship anytime soon.

 

bl2 - I understand your position and know the challenges we all face with the changes afoot, good, bad or indifferent.

 

Good faith is the key factor that many of us look to for on-going commitments to those companies we trust...

 

Once broken, all bets are off until things are done to really prove trust can be given again... a reason many of us move on to other companies, for sure.

 

Thank you for your thoughts...

 

bon voyage

[MamaFej]

One of the awesome things about cruising is that it can be so many things to so many people. It appeals to the big budget luxury seekers in the Penthouse or Royal Suites. It appeals to the bargain seekers in the lowest passenger deck inside cabin, and everything in between. It appeals to the "The ship is the destination" cruiser. It appeals to the "Take me to wonderful new places I've never seen" cruiser. It appeals to foodies, oenephiles, those who want to grab something quick at the buffet, early risers, late risers, trivia lovers, quiet readers, pool game afficianados, smokers, vapers, those who need clean air, art auction lovers, board game playes, solos, families, couples, and so many more. I think you get my drift. 

 

I have noticed, over the last several months, and especially the last several weeks, that Celebrity and other lines seem to have found ways to alienate most, if not nearly all, different types of cruisers. 

[bigbenboys]

Well, I did something I have not done in 12 years. I talked to our TA about booking Princess. I'm booking a PH3 with Princess Premier on the Discovery (2022). I know there have been changes over at Princess. I'm sure a lot has changed in 12 years.

With over 30 cruises with X from Balcony to CS. We mostly book sky suites. The butler change for us is not a big deal. But, many other changes by X has made me look elsewhere. We do have 3 cruise booked with X. I'm going to cancel one more. 

 

 

[cruisestitch]

Hard to reconcile the flash sale with the complaints about nickel and diming….

[numnums]

6 hours ago, zitsky said:

So how would / do you react if you went out at night to the hot tub or pool but you find out that Celebrity had changed the hours and it was closed?

 

Don’t start drinking.  It’s an expensive habit.  First you think Pabst Blue Ribbon and Iron City are perfectly fine.  Then you start drinking IPAs that cost you $6 everywhere you go.

Hmm, I don't think we would be impacted that much since we did not use it a lot, but it would still be a terrible shame. I think unless it was a kid-free ship, and the hygiene in the pools were spotless, we might use it more. The covid, and the illnesses that can spread easily make us very wary in general.

 

Besides virgin voyages(Which we haven't tried yet) Celebrity is probably the only cruise that sort of fits our preferences - A little higher end(Hygiene seems to be better, bathrooms were really nice and didn't need to use your hands to open the doors, etc), A more calming atmosphere(less kids)... We might try princess for their better all inclusive package deals, but I heard it was more catered to families, and we typically want to stay away from families. We have the worst experience with them as passengers.

 

I agree! I'm glad I'm at least a lightweight, and the drinks were way too bitter for us, at least it really only takes one drink to get me there so i'm having tons of fun! 🤣 Our expensive habit is constantly wanting to eat at the specialty diners and the Ala Carte menus.

[Gracie115]

57 minutes ago, bigbenboys said:

Well, I did something I have not done in 12 years. I talked to our TA about booking Princess. I'm booking a PH3 with Princess Premier on the Discovery (2022). I know there have been changes over at Princess. I'm sure a lot has changed in 12 years.

With over 30 cruises with X from Balcony to CS. We mostly book sky suites. The butler change for us is not a big deal. But, many other changes by X has made me look elsewhere. We do have 3 cruise booked with X. I'm going to cancel one more. 

 

 

 

The PH3 is a wonderful suite, especially the corner aft ones, the balconies are enormous!  It is very roomy, the bathroom is very large with separate large tub and standing shower.  As a comparison we think it falls somewhere between a CS & an RS on Celebrity.  No butler, of course, but they have never had them.  We are booked on the Sky in a PH3 with the Premier package in 2024.🙂

[deliver42]

Wait till you check Princess with their new changes. What used to be free, is no more.

[Gracie115]

57 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

Wait till you check Princess with their new changes. What used to be free, is no more.

 

If you get the Princess Plus or Premier package they are included and still the totals are much less than what X is charging for similar staterooms/suites.

[bigbenboys]

1 hour ago, deliver42 said:

Wait till you check Princess with their new changes. What used to be free, is no more.

I'm sure things have changed in 12 years since we were on Princess.

Booking Princess PS 3 with Premier package is $7200. Canceling Celebrity CS $12,400. Both are 7 nights.

[bigbenboys]

2 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

The PH3 is a wonderful suite, especially the corner aft ones, the balconies are enormous!  It is very roomy, the bathroom is very large with separate large tub and standing shower.  As a comparison we think it falls somewhere between a CS & an RS on Celebrity.  No butler, of course, but they have never had them.  We are booked on the Sky in a PH3 with the Premier package in 2024.🙂

Yes we got a aft corner PH 3 on deck 12 Feb 2024 . I saw a video online looks great. The suite does seem to be between CS & RS. Premier package gives us 2 nights specialty restaurants and a Invitation to 360 dining. 

[Gracie115]

7 hours ago, bigbenboys said:

I'm sure things have changed in 12 years since we were on Princess.

Booking Princess PS 3 with Premier package is $7200. Canceling Celebrity CS $12,400. Both are 7 nights.

 

And our Sky Princess 17 night TA with Premier Package is $7500 in a  PH3 versus $12000+ for a CS on the Apex TA next spring which is also 4 nights less than the Sky sailing.  We worked too hard for our $$ to throw it away out of some perverse sense of loyalty to Celebrity.  The PH3 suite on Princess is a far superior suite to the CS on any Celebrity ship. 

  

[cruisefam38]

12 hours ago, bigbenboys said:

We mostly book sky suites.

We were sorely disappointed by a Princess cruise in 2013, which caused us to shift our business over to Celebrity.  We have tried different types of state rooms, and like you, have cruised primarily in Sky Suites.  Although not exclusively, X has been our go-to cruise line, because we have left each and every cruise satisfied and happy.  

 

However, prices have gone up steeply since the pandemic.   After a  decade long cooling off period, we cruised with Princess a couple of months ago, in our case on the Regal.  The itinerary suited us and the price was more attractive than what X offered.  We booked a corner aft and really enjoyed the whole experience, now we are much more likely to cruise with Princess again.  As others have noted on the Celebrity boards, there are plenty of customer complaints on the Princess Board, and furthermore, across the mass market cruise lines.  Cruising is changing, and we aren't pleased with some of those changes.  I hope you enjoy your future cruise, and hope your experience will be equal to or even better than ours.

Below is a link to my CC review:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=702200

[QuestionEverything]

21 hours ago, hankandteri said:

We too thought Oceania was “our” line, but what we experienced on our first post pandemic cruise with them in June has sent us packing. Some of it could be attributed to a lot of new crew and a very full ship, but the deal breaker was obvious evidence of corporate greed and an utter lack of concern for their guests’ best interests. That’s not the way to treat a very well heeled and very loyal passenger base who are willing to pay a bit more in return for a premium vacation experience. 
 

I can honestly say that our last cruise with Oceania was the worst we’ve ever taken out of dozens of prior cruises, even though we had a penthouse suite on that cruise with butler service and the other perks. It’s also the first time I’ve ever walked off a ship feeling ripped off. 
 

My “worst cruise ever” evaluation includes a bunch of cruises on Carnival and other budget lines, so Oceania had to work at it to disappoint us that much. 

 

A huge percentage of the passengers on that cruise were repeaters like me, and a whole lot of those  told me they wouldn’t be coming back. 
 

Oceania’s parent company (NCL) just released their quarterly numbers and they were spectacular. Great. They delivered an awesome quarter, good for them, but the way they did it alienated many of their loyal customers. 
 

We have booked our next two cruises with Princess and Celebrity to see what they are all about. I know some of the same games will be afoot, but I’m going in with my eyes wide open, a different set of expectations, and at a far lower price point. 

Thanks for your excellent post. Your analysis is substantive and ominous for O. I am taking my 1st O cruise in a week and my eyes are wide open. I have friends who have cruised O and they are turning their backs on O due to the downgrading and they reject Simply More.

I have a list of questions from them, so I will be monitoring O to see how they deliver versus the standards by friends have enjoyed in the past.

The killer for me will be missed ports. 

Hoping your Princess and Celebrity cruises work well.

Also consider Cunard, I always have had good voyages with them.

[deliver42]

I can go to any cruise forum and hear the same thing about cost cutting and rising pricing. Not to mention, "I'll never go on this line again". Love all the complaining.

[zitsky]

24 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

I can go to any cruise forum and hear the same thing about cost cutting and rising pricing. Not to mention, "I'll never go on this line again". Love all the complaining.

THE HAND TOWELS IN THE BATHROOMS ARE TOO SOFT.

 

THE COFFEE IN THE RESTAURANTS IS TOO HOT.  AND THE COLD WATER IS TOO COLD.

 

THE STAFF IS ALWAYS SMILING.  IT’S CREEPY.

 

I’LL NEVER GO ON THIS LINE AGAIN!!!

 

Well you did say you love it.

[bigbenboys]

1 hour ago, deliver42 said:

I can go to any cruise forum and hear the same thing about cost cutting and rising pricing. Not to mention, "I'll never go on this line again". Love all the complaining.

I'm not done with X. We are in a CS next month. June 2024 we will be in a mid sky suite on Apex to Iceland. I do wish X would be more forward with their changes. I'm just cutting back on X, until things settle down. Who know what changes X will do next. There are 2 things that X did that made me look at Princess. When X stopped serving Prime Rib (yes it is back) and when X cut back on food at dinner time in the Oceanview café.

[Babr]

I have been reading this board long enough to remember that during the pandemic people groused about the cost of travel insurance and bristled at the idea of having to pay for it in order to protect themselves and their investment. They looked to Celebrity to do it.

 

And Celebrity did - medical care on board, private jets home, limos to the door, reimbursement for quarantine, reimbursement for hotels and meals, penalty-free cancellation. . . They did it for months for thousands of people at a time when bookings were slim.

 

Why is anybody surprised now that things have not gone back to just the way they were?

[RichYak]

6 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

And our Sky Princess 17 night TA with Premier Package is $7500 in a  PH3 versus $12000+ for a CS on the Apex TA next spring which is also 4 nights less than the Sky sailing.  We worked too hard for our $$ to throw it away out of some perverse sense of loyalty to Celebrity.  The PH3 suite on Princess is a far superior suite to the CS on any Celebrity ship. 

  

IMO this is the proper way to choose a cruise--a very unemotional and value-based approach. My cruising mindset has shifted from "where can Celebrity take me?" to "where do I want to go and who can provide me with the best value?" 

[zitsky]

16 minutes ago, Babr said:

I have been reading this board long enough to remember that during the pandemic people groused about the cost of travel insurance and bristled at the idea of having to pay for it in order to protect themselves and their investment. They looked to Celebrity to do it.

 

And Celebrity did - medical care on board, private jets home, limos to the door, reimbursement for quarantine, reimbursement for hotels and meals, penalty-free cancellation. . . They did it for months for thousands of people at a time when bookings were slim.

 

Why is anybody surprised now that things have not gone back to just the way they were?

We are surprised that Celebrity decides to change the conditions of our cruise contracts multiple times.  While legal, not a way to improve customer relations.