Panama Canal partial transit itinerary change

[Turtles06]

1 hour ago, ChinaShrek said:

How many extra days will it take a cruise ship to go around Cape Horn versus taking the Panama Canal? (assume no port days)

Google is your friend. Many estimates out there; depends on speed, etc.  Plus, you don’t just “go around Cape Horn.”   There can be weather and sea challenges.  
 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Panama-Canal

 

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-amount-of-time-saved-when-a-vessel-utilizes-the-Panama-Canal-instead-of-sailing-around-Cape-Horn

https://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA03/holmgren/ppie/pc.html

 

 

 

 

[rafinmd]

Sea-distances.org suggests about 29 days nonstop at 18Kt Fort Lauderdale to San Diego vs about a 14-day cruise through the canal.  I don't think food and fuel storage would permit that so it would probably be about 40 days.  If the worst happens I would expect some ships to swap routes and I will guess Oosterdam might embark in San Diego rather than Fort Lauderdale.  This will disrupt a LOT of cruises.

 

Roy

[Mosaic]

LOL, very nice work!!!

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 hours ago, rafinmd said:

I would hope that it will take a LOT to cancel a major repo transit like a World Cruise, but Zaandam has a pair of full transits January 4 to February 3, and it will be interesting to see what happens with them.  I do know that Crystal Serenity just had a pair of December transits cancelled so it bears watching.

 

Roy

 

Oh, bleep!!! I forgot about that. Those aren't "essential" transits like the repo transits. 

 

I was on the 3-week Zaandam Caribbean cruise that got cancelled when HAL wanted to make the next cruise longer. I booked the 2-week Caribbean because it still had some good ports. Now, with the full transits in jeopardy, I worry that my winter cruise will have yet another change. They're each 15 days, with only 4 on the Atlantic side. I see changes coming, maybe to my cruise as well as the two before it. 

[Turtles06]

3 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

Now, with the full transits in jeopardy,

I think you may be overreacting there …

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Turtles06 said:

I think you may be overreacting there …

 

HAL doesn't need to do those. They go through the Canal, do some Pacific ports and retrace their steps. It isn't like they need the transits to get the ship to a whole new season.

[Boatdrill]

On 8/25/2023 at 3:28 PM, BLH613 said:

We are booked on the 3/17/24 departure. The itinerary hasn’t changed yet on the website booking but the email states the call to Gatun Lake on 3/24 has been canceled.  

I just checked the HAL website, and there are no cruises listed for the Caribbean in March 2024.

The results for Departure Date start with October 2024.   

This is very odd....or am I missing something on the cruise search ?   

[KAKcruiser]

They seem to be there now.  Maybe you had a filter on that excluded March.

[Boatdrill]

I tried it again. The only filter is Caribbean. Here's a screenshot 

 

[boze9999]

We are all reading about the water concern and the canal - however why would HAL cancel one random canal crossing when they have so many fall / winter / spring ones both through the canal and in/out of the canal Lake Gate? (we're on one that is not the already cancelled 3/24/24 - so yes - all of us want to and need to know if it's across the panama fleet.

[KAKcruiser]

Are you pushing "explore cruises" at the top of the screen where it is advertising 60% off?  That puts a filter on.  Instead go down a little further.

[regnig]

On 8/25/2023 at 6:28 PM, BLH613 said:

We are booked on the 3/17/24 departure. The itinerary hasn’t changed yet on the website booking but the email states the call to Gatun Lake on 3/24 has been canceled.  I’m still waiting to see what the replacement might be and if there is a significant price adjustment. 

We are also on the 3/17 sailing. We had booked excursions in Cartagena and Costa Rica. Received two emails about an "itinerary change" and cancelation of those excursions. Looking at my itinerary on-line there is no change. Even started a dummy booking and it let me book the same cruise with the same itinerary.  Both of my emails said excursions were available on-line to book replacements. Went to HAL's site and was able to book the same excursions again, same dates same times. 

Leaves me wondering just where the Rotterdam is going and when HAL is going to tell us. And yes, if she is no longer doing the canal there should be a reduction in price. 

[terrydtx]

On 8/25/2023 at 5:42 PM, aliaschief said:

There was a news feature on the Weather Channel this morning discussing the current drought in Panama and how it’s affecting the Panama Canal. Fresh water levels are down and they have to cut back on allowed shipping transits. I believe they stated 30%.
Executives of the Canal discussed their concerns that it could worsen if drought continues.

We are transiting the Canal in January and that could affect our World Cruise itinerary.

No idea if drought is why Koningsdam itinerary change but it would make sense to cut back on partial transits before shipping that requires full passage.

 

I read this morning that currently the commercial traffic in backed up 21 days in the Canal which will even make more supply chain issues for the world. The article said they see no improvements for the next 6 to 8 months to maybe a year unless the watershed area gets significant rain. I would think pleasure craft like cruise ships will be the lowest priority for canal access. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if they are temporarily banned.

[Haljo1935]

7 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I read this morning that currently the commercial traffic in backed up 21 days in the Canal which will even make more supply chain issues for the world. The article said they see no improvements for the next 6 to 8 months to maybe a year unless the watershed area gets significant rain. I would think pleasure craft like cruise ships will be the lowest priority for canal access. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if they are temporarily banned.

I read that, too. Also said vessels are required to reduce their weight by 40% to pass through.

So there's yet another impact to the supply chain. And, of course, cruise ships.

My ability to leisurely enjoy watching the amazing workings of the Canal locks system, should not be a priority on par with shipping cargo deliveries, IMO. Disappointing to wait a year or two? Sure, but supplies need to get to their destinations.

[terrydtx]

23 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said:

I read that, too. Also said vessels are required to reduce their weight by 40% to pass through.

So there's yet another impact to the supply chain. And, of course, cruise ships.

My ability to leisurely enjoy watching the amazing workings of the Canal locks system, should not be a priority on par with shipping cargo deliveries, IMO. Disappointing to wait a year or two? Sure, but supplies need to get to their destinations.

Also many cargo ships from the Far east and Australia are rerouting to the Suez Canal to get to western Europe and the US east coast. This will add 40% more in transportation costs and the increased Suez traffic could end up causing more delays there too.

[ChinaShrek]

I am thinking outside the box here. If HAL has cruise ships in Seattle and Vancouver and needs to get them to the Caribbean, is it possible to sail around Alaska and through the Arctic Ocean and then go through the pass between Greenland and Canada? I have been reading a lot about the North Pole melting and the Arctic Ocean becoming navigable year round. I think that would be shorter than going through the Strait of Magellan. 

[Turtles06]

24 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

I am thinking outside the box here. If HAL has cruise ships in Seattle and Vancouver and needs to get them to the Caribbean, is it possible to sail around Alaska and through the Arctic Ocean and then go through the pass between Greenland and Canada? I have been reading a lot about the North Pole melting and the Arctic Ocean becoming navigable year round. I think that would be shorter than going through the Strait of Magellan. 

“What about the Northwest Passage, a sea route through the Arctic north of North America? Because of climate change, ice coverage there is now getting so low during the summer that ships can sometimes pass through relatively safely. However, Rodrigue baulks at the idea of the container shipping industry adopting this route to any great extent.

"You have services and you run them all the time, year-round," he says. "With the Arctic routes, the Northwest Passage in particular, it's only open for a couple of months, if you're lucky." Environmental concerns abound here too, and the attractiveness of the route may also depend on whether the Canadian government chooses to charge a fee for transit through its waters.”

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230825-the-rival-to-the-panama-canal-that-was-never-built

[KAKcruiser]

I wonder why they would eliminate the port calls at Cartagena and Costa Rica unless they are thinking of a totally different itinerary.

[terrydtx]

18 minutes ago, KAKcruiser said:

I wonder why they would eliminate the port calls at Cartagena and Costa Rica unless they are thinking of a totally different itinerary.

That is a possible scenario too.

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, regnig said:

We are also on the 3/17 sailing. We had booked excursions in Cartagena and Costa Rica. Received two emails about an "itinerary change" and cancelation of those excursions. Looking at my itinerary on-line there is no change. Even started a dummy booking and it let me book the same cruise with the same itinerary.  Both of my emails said excursions were available on-line to book replacements. Went to HAL's site and was able to book the same excursions again, same dates same times. 

Leaves me wondering just where the Rotterdam is going and when HAL is going to tell us. And yes, if she is no longer doing the canal there should be a reduction in price. 

 

HAL is not good at timing announcements/updates. They cancelled my 3-week cruise on Zaandam next winter, and I found out on my roll call because others got emails about the cancellation and posted about it. I NEVER got the email or the rebooking offers. The booking stayed in "my account" for weeks after the cruise fell off the website, and still I received no email. 

 

30 minutes ago, KAKcruiser said:

I wonder why they would eliminate the port calls at Cartagena and Costa Rica unless they are thinking of a totally different itinerary.

 

They're probably scrambling for ports to assemble a new itinerary. it's possible that one or both of those could end up being part of the itinerary, maybe on different days. Or not.

 

There's no point in calling HAL for information at this point because they probably don't know what they're going to do about replacement ports. 

[wdw1972]

5 hours ago, regnig said:

We are also on the 3/17 sailing. We had booked excursions in Cartagena and Costa Rica. Received two emails about an "itinerary change" and cancelation of those excursions. Looking at my itinerary on-line there is no change. Even started a dummy booking and it let me book the same cruise with the same itinerary.  Both of my emails said excursions were available on-line to book replacements. Went to HAL's site and was able to book the same excursions again, same dates same times. 

Leaves me wondering just where the Rotterdam is going and when HAL is going to tell us. And yes, if she is no longer doing the canal there should be a reduction in price. 

On facebook someone currently on a HAL ship but also booked on the 3/17/24 Rotterdam PC sailing checked with the future cruise consultant and learned the itinerary has completely changed (sounded like the 11-night southern/eastern caribbean but with an extra day).  Supposedly the FCC could see a note about when passengers would begin being notified.  I don't remember exactly when that was, but I think it was "in a few days".

 

Sue/WDW1972

[terrydtx]

Oue first HAL cruise was the partial Panama Canal cruise in 2007 on the Volendam. I agree the main reason we booked it was for the partial canal transit.  It is not HAL's fault that they have canceled since it looks like passenger vessel Canal transits may be on hold for some time by the canal operators. I could see the ship stopping at Colon and doing some private excursions to see the canal in operation and to see more of the history of the canal. 

[KAKcruiser]

I wonder why we have heard about the March 17 sailing but not any of the others.  Will all the fall 2023 and spring 2024 Panama Canal cruises be affected?

[seekatz]

The sooner the cruise lines notify the passengers the better. If the line has a strong doubt they will not be able to do a full, or partial they need to say so prior to final payment. As others have stated, this is for some a reason for booking the cruise. Many people fly long distances for the lifetime chance of a canal cruise.

[shipshape sam]

On 8/26/2023 at 12:33 PM, Haljo1935 said:

Haven't been able to pin down that number, but did find something that said cargo companies that are rerouting through Suez Canal are adding approx 14 days to their trips.

And ships that are able to pass through PC have to reduce total weight by 40%. That's quite a lot and results in another ship to pick up the offload, so there's a domino effect...

Some where I read that some vessels were waiting up to 21 days or more to get a slot for Panama Canal.

In addition to the time issue for going around the horn you have the added fuel and other costs when ship is traveling.