Gratuities?

[housesitters]

Is there a list somewhere of cruise lines that have gratuities included in the price? I wish they would all do that

[GeezerCouple]

3 minutes ago, housesitters said:

Is there a list somewhere of cruise lines that have gratuities included in the price? I wish they would all do that

 

Isn't the "total price", once all expenses such as basic fare, gratuities/excursions/etc., and transportation are all included... isn't that what matters, not what categories are "broken down"?

 

GC

[LHT28]

33 minutes ago, housesitters said:

Is there a list somewhere of cruise lines that have gratuities included in the price? I wish they would all do that

 Some  Luxury lines  include gratuities

 I think Azamara does  as well

[donaldsc]

There aren't that many cruise lines out there in whatever type of cruise line you are looking for.  Just Google them and find out for yourself.  It would not take you all that long.   BTW - when you find out post if on CC so that other people can benefit from your research.

 

DON

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, housesitters said:

Is there a list somewhere of cruise lines that have gratuities included in the price? I wish they would all do that

 

I've never understood that desire.  It is easy to find out the amount of the gratuities and then effectively include them in the price by simply prepaying them.

[John Bull]

Our experience 

8 hours ago, housesitters said:

Is there a list somewhere of cruise lines that have gratuities included in the price? I wish they would all do that

 

Elsewhere you've mentioned Ambassador and the now-defunct C&M - can I hazard a guess that you're Brits?

Adding gratuities to on-board accounts is very much an American thing - to some extent it mimics the norm. on US soil so many un-travelled Americans will be bemused why you ask the question.

 

Our experience is that if there are no added gratuities (or tips or service charges or whatever) that's something which is writ large in adverts - Marella and P&O for instance.

Conversely, if there are such charges they're notable for their absence in adverts.

It's complicated by many US and Italian lines which, for sailings from the UK or Aus, will build the charges into the fares because  they know that we're irked by the automatic adding of gratuities - again, that'll be highlighted in adverts. 

 

When it comes to listings (by cruise lines & Brit cruise agents), it's often not so clear.

But you'll have an idea of where & when you want to cruise & a broad idea of your budget, so that will significantly shorten the list.

Then check out each in the knowledge that P&O and Marella don't add these charges, and the likelihood that for US or Italian ships sailings from the US, mainland Europe, and most of the rest of the world there'll be daily charges per person and 15 to 18% added to drinks prices.

 

But don't dismiss cruises which add the charges - simply calculate them and add them to the fare before comparing value-for-money.

 

JB 🙂 

 

[Heidi13]

On 9/2/2023 at 6:55 PM, housesitters said:

Is there a list somewhere of cruise lines that have gratuities included in the price? I wish they would all do that

 

Not aware of any list, but you can generally go by the target market and in addition luxury/premium cruise lines often include gratuities in the base fare.

 

In the UK and Australian/NZ markets, included gratuities is the norm on ships based in those markets. Some of the American based cruise lines have tried to change the UK market to the US model, such as Carnival adding gratuities with P&O. It was a spectacular failure, so they had to revert to the British model of including in the base fare.

 

If you are a Brit or Aussie/NZ, most of the British based cruise lines have them included (exception being Fred Olsen), but the US based ships repositioning to Europe will not. In Australia/NZ, P&O Australia and the Princess ships that operate year-round will have them included. 

[housesitters]

Thank you for the helpful advice re some countries including gratuities, while others do not.

My concern is with some cruise lines having fixed amounts for gratuities re. the cabin but listing that amount separately. In that case it makes no sense to me to have it as a separate cost. Yes, I can go to different cruise lines and calculate the total fare (excluding extra gratuities that I might wish to add later) but when I am considering several different cruise lines and itineraries it begins to irritate. Not a big thing, admittedly, but other than trying to hook a customer with a fare lower than it actually is I can see no rationale for it

[dsrdsrdsr]

1 hour ago, housesitters said:

Thank you for the helpful advice re some countries including gratuities, while others do not.

My concern is with some cruise lines having fixed amounts for gratuities re. the cabin but listing that amount separately. In that case it makes no sense to me to have it as a separate cost. Yes, I can go to different cruise lines and calculate the total fare (excluding extra gratuities that I might wish to add later) but when I am considering several different cruise lines and itineraries it begins to irritate. Not a big thing, admittedly, but other than trying to hook a customer with a fare lower than it actually is I can see no rationale for it

It saves VAT (or its American equivalent, I dare say) for the customer, and almost certainly saves tax for the crew.

 

If it was a non-optional charge it would be subject to VAT at point of sale, certainly; and I suspect it would be taxable on the crew at home port rates rather than home country rates, though I'm not certain about that.

Edited September 10, 2023 by dsrdsrdsr

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, housesitters said:

Thank you for the helpful advice re some countries including gratuities, while others do not.

My concern is with some cruise lines having fixed amounts for gratuities re. the cabin but listing that amount separately.

Depends on the line

 it is  suggested amount  but you can  have them removed from the auto gratuity

Then pay the staff  what ever amount you want 

[cruisemom42]

4 hours ago, housesitters said:

My concern is with some cruise lines having fixed amounts for gratuities re. the cabin but listing that amount separately. In that case it makes no sense to me to have it as a separate cost.

 

There are apparently tax implications involved in doing it that way, both for the crew and for the cruise line. I don't want to get into the semantics but it's been the topic of literally hundreds of discussions on these boards. The claim has been that cruise lines would make less (and thus presumably would have to charge passengers more in order to make the same profit) and that crew would make less (due to tax implications of the money being considered wages/salary versus tips/gratuities). 

 

I would prefer it to be different, but honestly it is not worthwhile to worry about it. Perhaps we in the US are just more used to all of these after costs, but it's really not that difficult to arrive at the total figure.

 

[John Bull]

9 hours ago, dsrdsrdsr said:

It saves VAT (or its American equivalent, I dare say) for the customer, and almost certainly saves tax for the crew.

 

If it was a non-optional charge it would be subject to VAT at point of sale, certainly; and I suspect it would be taxable on the crew at home port rates rather than home country rates, though I'm not certain about that.

 

In the UK & the EU there's no VAT on cruise tickets - cruises are classified as "transportation", which is zero-rated. Other things included in a cruise fare, like dining, entertainment, and service charges, are regarded as ancillary to the transportation so again, no VAT.

(VAT on other purchases on-board, including drinks and purchases from ships' shops, is complicated - the complications include whether in port or in international waters, where the next port is, and different EU countries' interpretation of EU law. Many cruises include a call at Gib., or Turkey, or the Canaries or the Channel Islands, and that avoids the potential for  cruise-long VAT on those things)

 

Tax on crews' wages is also complicated - many governments including the UK, the EU, and S E Asia, agree average annual tips incomes with their citizens or their citizens'  unions. Saving the crew from income tax has been mooted by many folk, but IMHO it isn't a factor.

 

Psychologically, something priced at $999 is way cheaper than $1,000 anywhere in the world.

But in America, the land of the add-on, that top line is much more important and that's one reason why many costs - like sensible wages for staff - aren't included in the top line.

No US cruise line is likely to unilaterally incorporate decent wages in the ticket price for US cruisers, because their top line would be say, $1200 compared to their competitors' $999.

I see that, as well as the US tipping culture generally, as the major reason why "gratuities" are an add-on rather than incorporated in the ticket price.

That's a great shame for cruisers, because those who always pay auto-tips wouldn't have to subsidise the cheapskates who remove the grammatically-incorrect "tips".

And it's a great shame for the crew, because non-Americans like yours truly don't see the sense in putting their hands in their pockets for another tip for good service when they've already had a daily charge added to their on-board account and more "tips" added to their drinks prices.

 

So like @cruisemom42 and @Toofarfromtheseasay, we all just have to do a little arithmetic to figure the bottom line. 

That's much like we - including Brits - have to do when buying low-cost air tickets.🙄

 

JB 🙂

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by John Bull

[Heidi13]

15 hours ago, dsrdsrdsr said:

I suspect it would be taxable on the crew at home port rates rather than home country rates, though I'm not certain about that.

 

Negative.

 

While I never worked FoC, only UK & Canadian Flag, our son has and still works on FoC mega yachts. He is paid in US $ or Euro, depending on his contract. and his salary is paid into his account of preference. Where the account resides has no bearing on his tax liabilities.

 

For taxation purposes, he selects his country of residency. Since UK is much more favourable for seafarers, he is an official resident of UK, having dual citizenship.

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

19 hours ago, housesitters said:

Thank you for the helpful advice re some countries including gratuities, while others do not.

My concern is with some cruise lines having fixed amounts for gratuities re. the cabin but listing that amount separately. In that case it makes no sense to me to have it as a separate cost. Yes, I can go to different cruise lines and calculate the total fare (excluding extra gratuities that I might wish to add later) but when I am considering several different cruise lines and itineraries it begins to irritate. Not a big thing, admittedly, but other than trying to hook a customer with a fare lower than it actually is I can see no rationale for it

 

One of the things I like about the Cruiseplum site (not a travel agency), which I recently learned of, is that they include both the amount of the gratuities and the port fees, making it very easy to compare costs regardless of whether the tips are included in the price or are an add-on.

[NoBoozeCruise]

There are a number of cruise lines that include tips. 

 

MSC as long as you don't book from America.

 

You can actually see the all inclusive price of American Nickle and Dime cruises too if you use a German website, just use Google web browser translate, top three dots on your phone browser. Makes comparison easier. 

[CPT Trips]

8 hours ago, John Bull said:

And it's a great shame for the crew, because non-Americans like yours truly don't see the sense in putting their hands in their pockets for another tip for good service when they've already had a daily charge added to their on-board account and more "tips" added to their drinks prices.

I daresay that I’m not the only American that agrees with your sentiment and considers added “service charges” to be the same as a tip. 

[ldubs]

18 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

There are apparently tax implications involved in doing it that way, both for the crew and for the cruise line. I don't want to get into the semantics but it's been the topic of literally hundreds of discussions on these boards. The claim has been that cruise lines would make less (and thus presumably would have to charge passengers more in order to make the same profit) and that crew would make less (due to tax implications of the money being considered wages/salary versus tips/gratuities). 

 

I would prefer it to be different, but honestly it is not worthwhile to worry about it. Perhaps we in the US are just more used to all of these after costs, but it's really not that difficult to arrive at the total figure.

 

 

Good points.  I wonder if tips/gratuities are taxed in most countries that have an income tax (like they are in the U.S.).  Whether they are reported of course is another question.   

 

Corporate accounting and tax issues aside, advertising a low, albeit somewhat fictional, price gets a potential customer to take the next step.  Kind of like "resort fees" used by hotels so their pricing looks competitive during searches.   

[sanger727]

This actually seems to be moving in the other direction. Celebrity offers and "all included" fare that used to include gratuities and now doesn't. This is my general fear with cruise lines including the gratuities in the price - the price will increase to include gratuities and then over time the pricing will evolve to expect additional tips on top of that. 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

This actually seems to be moving in the other direction. Celebrity offers and "all included" fare that used to include gratuities and now doesn't. This is my general fear with cruise lines including the gratuities in the price - the price will increase to include gratuities and then over time the pricing will evolve to expect additional tips on top of that. 

 

If the grat is included then nothing more need be given.  Don't care about "expectations".  Giving anything beyond that is entirely up to me. 

[sanger727]

28 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

If the grat is included then nothing more need be given.  Don't care about "expectations".  Giving anything beyond that is entirely up to me. 

 

Well yes, but in Celebrity's case they essentially rolled it into the package price. Then they removed it from the package without lowering the prices. I can see everything repeating itself. First they add it to the package price - then they leave envelopes for extra cash tipping - then they offer an auto gratuity to replace the cash tips. This happens at all inclusives now. Gratuities are usually considered covered in the hotel price. But then everyone still expects cash tips. 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

Well yes, but in Celebrity's case they essentially rolled it into the package price. Then they removed it from the package without lowering the prices. I can see everything repeating itself. First they add it to the package price - then they leave envelopes for extra cash tipping - then they offer an auto gratuity to replace the cash tips. This happens at all inclusives now. Gratuities are usually considered covered in the hotel price. But then everyone still expects cash tips. 

 

Aww, yeah.  Kind of like they are double dipping the customer.  I can see that happening.   I actually can't remember the last time I felt pressured for an extra tip on a cruise ship.  But elsewhere, I'm sure getting tired of someone wanting an extra tip every time I turn around.  

[thinfool]

At some point in the not too distant past, Princess tried pricing their US offerings with gratuities included.  It didn't last long.  Because it didn't, I can only conclude that it was not successful, or worse, disastrous.  The US (biggest market) is so totally used to the tipping structure, that to see a price of say, $2200. pp for a balcony, and then mentally add the gratuities, when a competing line had no fare modification....it's easy to see why Princess reverted to their original practice.

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, thinfool said:

At some point in the not too distant past, Princess tried pricing their US offerings with gratuities included.  It didn't last long.  Because it didn't, I can only conclude that it was not successful, or worse, disastrous.  The US (biggest market) is so totally used to the tipping structure, that to see a price of say, $2200. pp for a balcony, and then mentally add the gratuities, when a competing line had no fare modification....it's easy to see why Princess reverted to their original practice.

 

Americans are used to tipping and also used to added fees/costs to advertised prices. At the minimum, tax is added to merchandise or services; tickets and many online purchases carry service fees; hotels add on taxes/fees/resort fees. American's don't demand an all inclusive price so lines that are primarily booked by Americans play the same game everyone else does of showing the lowest advertised price possible. 

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

Americans are used to tipping and also used to added fees/costs to advertised prices. At the minimum, tax is added to merchandise or services; tickets and many online purchases carry service fees; hotels add on taxes/fees/resort fees. American's don't demand an all inclusive price so lines that are primarily booked by Americans play the same game everyone else does of showing the lowest advertised price possible. 

 

Looks like we might be seeing some legislation that will at least be a start towards all-in pricing.   

[ovccruiser]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:50 PM, sanger727 said:

 

Americans are used to tipping and also used to added fees/costs to advertised prices. At the minimum, tax is added to merchandise or services; tickets and many online purchases carry service fees; hotels add on taxes/fees/resort fees. American's don't demand an all inclusive price so lines that are primarily booked by Americans play the same game everyone else does of showing the lowest advertised price possible. 

Strangest thing I have witnessed on a Cunard cruise was an American ordering a drink and tipping the wait staff. So he will pay for the drink plus the 15% charge(gratuity) and gave a tip on top. It looked almost like a habit to give the tip.