NCL’s legal obligation?

[ChiefMateJRK]

3 hours ago, sailingships said:

Yes In May we were going by train from Bari, Italy to Venice. That morning we found all the trips north were cancelled because of the rain and flooded rails. Right there at the station we were immediately given back all our funds we paid for the trips. Money in Euros. (Luckily, we were able to fly to Venice that same day for just a bit more than the train cost.)

A refund for a service paid for but not provided is not "compensation" for your inconvenience.

[Yesimapirate]

3 hours ago, OctoP said:

Please stop portraying us as unreasonable. We’re well past “immediately”. Those of us on the Nov 1 sailing are about to get on planes to fly half way around the world, with no idea of what awaits us on the other end. We’re seeing all of the other sailings get their new itineraries, but not us. Of course we’re worried.

I don't know you so I won't say you're unreasonable.   You're obviously emotionally invested, this is a big trip you've been looking forward to for a long time and nothing is more frustrating than the unknown.

 

However,  you also need to keep in mind the overwhelming logistics in a change like this.  You say you're about to get on a plane yet the time from now until your cruise is the same time from when war broke out until now.  

 

I know it's difficult for anyone but you need to give them more time.  No one has been abandoned yet. 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, OctoP said:

Please stop portraying us as unreasonable. We’re well past “immediately”. Those of us on the Nov 1 sailing are about to get on planes to fly half way around the world, with no idea of what awaits us on the other end. We’re seeing all of the other sailings get their new itineraries, but not us. Of course we’re worried.

1. As you have noticed, they are changing itineraries. It is not as easy as you seem to think it is. If they have not got to yours yet, I am sure it is not for lack of trying.

 

2. Yes, November 1st is getting closer, but you did not just start complaining. In fact, do you have a single post that is not a complaint that you have not been told yet what your options are for your cruise?

 

3. Somehow, I think your woe is me pales before the concerns of hostages and their families and those who may be trapped in Gaza.

[ontheweb]

23 minutes ago, IAcruising said:

 

I find it interesting that if they lose their money by not going on the cruise it will cause financial ruin, but going on the cruise and spending even more money will be just fine.

 

Weird how that works.

 

Yes, exactly right. It's money spent already, and if it is enough to cause financial ruin, it never should have been spent in the first place.

[dobiemom]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:39 PM, OctoP said:

Could they legally just shift everything to days at sea?

 

On 10/19/2023 at 12:58 PM, schmoopie17 said:

They could do a cruise to nowhere, man. (Cue the Beatles...)

Cruises to nowhere were outlawed several years ago. 😕

[BirdTravels]

3 minutes ago, dobiemom said:

 

Cruises to nowhere were outlawed several years ago. 😕

In the United States. But obviously, this entire thread deals with places other than the United States. 

[ontheweb]

25 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

In the United States. But obviously, this entire thread deals with places other than the United States. 

And actually, they were not outlawed in the USA. As has been explained buy @chengkp75, the crew would need a different type of work visa and that would cost the cruise lines more than the normal visa. So, they are not willing to do that.

[ontheweb]

32 minutes ago, dobiemom said:

 

Cruises to nowhere were outlawed several years ago. 😕

Wrong, see my previous post.

[IAcruising]

1 hour ago, dobiemom said:

Cruises to nowhere were outlawed several years ago. 😕

 

In the US, yes, "several", like 137.

 

[hallux]

1 hour ago, dobiemom said:

 

Cruises to nowhere were outlawed several years ago. 😕

This was established on the first page, in posts subsequent to the one you clicked to quote in a knee-jerk reaction rather than continuing to read the thread.

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And actually, they were not outlawed in the USA. As has been explained buy @chengkp75, the crew would need a different type of work visa and that would cost the cruise lines more than the normal visa. So, they are not willing to do that.

No, it would have to be a US Flagged ship. And a US flagged ship has requirements on the nationalities of the crew (e.g., US citizenship for a large majority). 

[njhorseman]

7 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

No, it would have to be a US Flagged ship. And a US flagged ship has requirements on the nationalities of the crew (e.g., US citizenship for a large majority). 

 No, it does not have to be a US flagged ship. The PVSA rules specifically permit "cruises to nowhere" on foreign flagged ships.

As @ontheweb has stated the issue is one of crew having the proper work visas. 

[njhorseman]

8 hours ago, IAcruising said:

 

In the US, yes, "several", like 137.

 

No, they never have been outlawed.  A few years ago the government ruled that crew would need a different type of visa for them to work on a cruise to nowhere.

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

No, they never have been outlawed.  A few years ago the government ruled that crew would need a different type of visa for them to work on a cruise to nowhere.

This is correct.  If you read the language of 46 USC 55103 (which is the PVSA), it specifically allows for "cruises to nowhere" and calls them out by that name.

 

What has changed is that in order to do a "cruise to nowhere", the crew need H1-B "specialty occupations" work visa, not a C-1/D crew visa.  The work visa is more difficult to obtain, and more costly for the cruise line (including the fact that the jobs need to be advertised in the US for US workers, and the wage paid needs to be commensurate with what a US worker would get in the same position), so the cruise lines have voluntarily stopped offering "cruises to nowhere"

[ontheweb]

47 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is correct.  If you read the language of 46 USC 55103 (which is the PVSA), it specifically allows for "cruises to nowhere" and calls them out by that name.

 

What has changed is that in order to do a "cruise to nowhere", the crew need H1-B "specialty occupations" work visa, not a C-1/D crew visa.  The work visa is more difficult to obtain, and more costly for the cruise line (including the fact that the jobs need to be advertised in the US for US workers, and the wage paid needs to be commensurate with what a US worker would get in the same position), so the cruise lines have voluntarily stopped offering "cruises to nowhere"

Yes, as I posted yesterday, I had previously learned that from reading posts by you. Thnk you for the extra detail and for sharing with all of us your expertise on many cruising topics due to your long experience in the industry.

[Barb Nahoumi]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:39 PM, OctoP said:

This may be in the fine print somewhere but I can’t find it.

 

I know NCL can and should be able to cancel ports where there is danger, whether it be war, weather, zombies, or whatever. Safety is always the first priority.
 

When this occurs, are they legally obligated to replace a certain percentage of those ports with substitute ports? Or provide any kind of compensation if other ports aren’t available for whatever reason? Could they legally just shift everything to days at sea?

They will try do find an open port, or else just do a sea day.  Sea days are fine with me.

[realaud]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:39 PM, OctoP said:

This may be in the fine print somewhere but I can’t find it.

 

I know NCL can and should be able to cancel ports where there is danger, whether it be war, weather, zombies, or whatever. Safety is always the first priority.
 

When this occurs, are they legally obligated to replace a certain percentage of those ports with substitute ports? Or provide any kind of compensation if other ports aren’t available for whatever reason? Could they legally just shift everything to days at sea?

Usually they will just give you a credit for the port taxes if they don't give you a diversion port - they are not allowed to keep taxes, but they will not charge you more if they dock at a replacement port, even if the port tax is higher.  Technically, you are paying for accommodations on a ship and your ship is not cut short if they have to skip a port (you just get an extra day at sea), so you are still lodging, eating and being entertained.  You may get some credit if they have to cut your sailing short for some emergency, but that's about it. Normally, if there is no emergency that requires a shortened sailing, you get the paid for number of days, even if it turns into a cruise to nowhere.

 

[complawyer]

hey schmoopie 17. yes, you are correct, if they cancel ports, they in fact could do a cruise to nowhere, man, but that would be 1000xs better that sittin on the dock of the bay or having mechanical problems, and changing the ship  to the sloop john b

 

sorry, couldnt resist ! LMAO!!!

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, complawyer said:

hey schmoopie 17. yes, you are correct, if they cancel ports, they in fact could do a cruise to nowhere, man, but that would be 1000xs better that sittin on the dock of the bay or having mechanical problems, and changing the ship  to the sloop john b

 

sorry, couldnt resist ! LMAO!!!

Hey, Sittin n the Dock of the Bay is one of the finest songs ever!

 

sitting on the dock of the bay - Google Search

[cruiseny4life]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Hey, Sittin n the Dock of the Bay is one of the finest songs ever!

 

sitting on the dock of the bay - Google Search

yea it is!! Good ole Otis!

[complawyer]

it may be the greatest song ever, but you would rather be sitting on the dock of the bay ,or on a cruise to no where man

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

yea it is!! Good ole Otis!

Did you know he wrote the song RESPECT that became a breakthrough hit for Aretha Franklin?

 

What a tragedy that he died in a plane crash. 😢

[cruiser2015]

2 hours ago, complawyer said:

it may be the greatest song ever, but you would rather be sitting on the dock of the bay ,or on a cruise to no where man

Nowhere Man - that's a different song.

[complawyer]

read schmoopies original post. it indicated a cruise to no where, man, so i commented on not complaining about a cruise to nowhere, man as opposed to sittin on the dock of they bay.

 

apparently you missed the humor and sarcasm

[cruiser2015]

7 hours ago, complawyer said:

read schmoopies original post. it indicated a cruise to no where, man, so i commented on not complaining about a cruise to nowhere, man as opposed to sittin on the dock of they bay.

 

apparently you missed the humor and sarcasm

Quite the contrary!

 

Apparently you missed MY humor and sarcasm.