Life at Sea Three Year World Cruise Cancelled

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, tscoffey said:

Did this AIDA ship they were going to buy also come with a fully staffed and trained crew?

A crew? You mean just having a ship is not enough? 🤦‍♂️

[Heidi13]

23 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Oh, so you mean the now promised refunds aren't in the mail???  😧

 

Negative, the rubber cheques are in the post and should be bouncing through mail boxes soon.😁

 

I do feel sorry for everyone involved, but as with all aspects of life, when making significant financial decisions you need to complete a detailed risk analysis. No way this venture from day 1 should have passed at anything but moderate/high risk, with risk increasing the entire time.

 

Had I taken this to my TA and/or financial advisor they would have laughed, advising I needed a new agent/advisor.

[VL1]

Sad, but predictable.

[GeezerCouple]

49 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Most, if not all policies we have purchased included Bankruptcy or Default as one of the exclusions.

 

Don't believe it is available in the USA, but a number of countries do have Consumer Protection Laws that include a Travel Fund. Must purchase from a licenced agent and a few other requirements, but these are generally available as a last resort. 

 

There are some "consumer protection laws" in the USA, but many (most?) of them are state-specific.  Among other things, this would probably not work to enforce action or collect refunds or penalties for a company not only out of state, but in another country entirely.

 

I'm not sure whether 3rd-party USA-based travel insurance would even be available for this.  There are several reasons I can think of, although there may indeed be some policies I've never looked into, etc.  Usually, the coverage is from when you leave home until you return.  So... what is "home" with a cruise like this?  And in the USA, insurance is regulated by each state...  Also, there are usually time limits, such as trips no longer than, say, 90 days.  I know there have been concerns voiced here on CC about getting travel insurance that would work for some of the longer ATW (Around The World) cruises, and those always seem to be less than a year long, usually not even close to a year... and yet some passengers reported having trouble getting 3rd-party coverage.

 

But mostly, what were the paid passengers really told that got them to actually sell homes and actually fly to Istanbul, given no ship was actually purchased yet!? *

 

Presumably that would have been something a bit (a lot!?) more encouraging than "We're still trying to buy a ship..."

 

😡

 

* Or... Were those reports of people who sold homes and who were faithfully waiting in Istanbul... while the ship was going to sail from Amsterdam.... maybe, just maybe, not quite accurate?  (I have no idea, but is this a possibility?)

 

GC

 

[mrgabriel]

I’ve been fascinated by this debacle for the past couple of months so have been reading the reports along the way.  The company continually told people that possession of the ship was imminent. The whole thing was a shell game and it sounds like the COO is the only one who has seen the light and is willing to say THERE IS AND WILL BE NO CRUISE. 

 

A bit reminiscent of the guy who set up the fake luxury party weekend in the Bahamas.  He’s now out of prison & is planning another one so you can bet this group will be promoting another cruise any day now. 

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

But mostly, what were the paid passengers really told that got them to actually sell homes and actually fly to Istanbul, given no ship was actually purchased yet!? *

I am guessing they sold their homes because they expected to be cruising for three years. I have friends that bought an RV and sold their home as they planned to tour the US for 2 or 3 years. Keeping the home was not practical for them. They have been on the road 2 years now. 
 

Given that no ship had been purchased I find it bizarre that they signed on but there are probably other promises in the scam we don’t know about. 

[GeezerCouple]

20 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Given that no ship had been purchased I find it bizarre that they signed on but there are probably other promises in the scam we don’t know about.

[emphasis added]

 

Yup, that's the question.

Is there any indication of "how many" passengers are/were really waiting for that ship to arrive?

(Or whether they were still really in Istanbul or in Amsterdam?)

 

I find it very hard to believe that many (more than one or two, if that!) would really leave home, bags packed (and SELL homes!?), when there was zero indication there would be an actual ship to meet them at the dock.

 

It's all very, very odd, and just doesn't sound right.

 

GC

 

[mrgabriel]

1 hour ago, GeezerCouple said:

[emphasis added]

 

Yup, that's the question.

Is there any indication of "how many" passengers are/were really waiting for that ship to arrive?

(Or whether they were still really in Istanbul or in Amsterdam?)

 

I find it very hard to believe that many (more than one or two, if that!) would really leave home, bags packed (and SELL homes!?), when there was zero indication there would be an actual ship to meet them at the dock.

 

It's all very, very odd, and just doesn't sound right.

 

GC

 

The report I read said there were something like 110 pax waiting. Don’t know if that’s factual but there was also a sentence that led me to believe that bookings were well below what they anticipated. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

This is a warning to all those putting money on Residence ships that haven't sailed yet.

[MacMadame]

5 hours ago, Omax4 said:

I read an article about this on CNN today. They interviewed people who sold their homes  and were stuck in Istanbul waiting for the cruise to start. I feel sorry for them but I don’t understand why you would sell you homes and travel when the company doesn’t have a ship yet and the company has no prior history of making this work yet. Makes no sense.

I think it is the sunk cost fallacy. Or maybe it's the frog boiling scenario. Or both! LOL

 

I have friends who were to take this cruise and when they signed up, the company had a ship. It was months later that Life at Sea said that they couldn't use that ship and were buying a bigger one. At this point, you've put in months planning, maybe sold some stuff. Plus, Miray is an experienced cruise line who has bought ships before, so why wouldn't you trust them? My friends were a bit nervous but willing to continue at that point.

 

I think, if it was me, I might have pulled out when most of the Life and Sea staff including the founders left to start another company. But my friends could afford to lose some money, weren't selling their house, and weren't quitting jobs to do this. So they stayed the course. And went to Turkey anyway when the delay was announced because they had non-refundable tickets. Honestly, if I had stayed in up to that point, I would have done the same.

 

Anyway, my friends are planning a trip to another part of the world and will probably travel around on their own. After all, they set their life up to be gone for three years so that is probably what they will do just not on a cruise or at least not on this one. They are having an adventure, just not the one they planned and I'm happy for them.

 

The ones I feel sorry for are the people who seriously disrupted their lives for this and are in a pickle. Yes, no one made them sell their businesses, quit their jobs, sell their homes at a loss, etc. But they still got screwed over IMO and it seems clear that the Miray people were feeding them some lines and not being straightforward with them.

[GeezerCouple]

2 minutes ago, mrgabriel said:

The report I read said there were something like 110 pax waiting. Don’t know if that’s factual but there was also a sentence that led me to believe that bookings were well below what they anticipated. 

 

If that information is from the link at the beginning of this thread, here is a key sentence from it:

"...Some of the passengers who booked the 111 cabins sold are still in Istanbul, having made their way there ahead of the original departure date..."

 

I'm not at all sure how many of the 111 were EVER actually in Istanbul such that they could "still" be there.  That is, how many really "made their way there ahead of the original departure date"?

 

There are a few other bits like:

"...Would-be cruisers – who wanted to remain anonymous until their refunds come through – have told CNN of their shock and dismay that the trip has been canceled. Some had sold their homes or wound up businesses to join the cruise..."

And then there seem to be quotes from a variety of stranded passengers, making it seem like maybe it is ~100, or at least, "many".

But then... "...A third, speaking just before the cruise was confirmed as canceled, said they were feeling “let down, deceived and betrayed”..."

So are there just three poor souls (or maybe couples), rather than perhaps scores or even more than 100?

 

The CNN writer, Julia Buckley... is she just hyping this to get good click and reading numbers?  (Wouldn't be the first time someone has done that, eh?)

 

If I've missed this type of information, I'd love a pointer.

It would be reassuring to find out that there were *not* approximately 100 people who had bags packed, waiting in Istanbul for a non-existent ship.

 

It seems outrageous how "Miray Cruises" has handled this, PER THE REPORTING.

And it seems very likely that much of it is reasonably accurate.

But the parts about people selling homes, shipping things to Istanbul, and... apparently never heading to Amsterdam?  That's not really clear.

I hope it is very few.

 

GC

 

[Charles4515]

37 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

I'm not at all sure how many of the 111 were EVER actually in Istanbul such that they could "still" be there.  That is, how many really "made their way there ahead of the original departure date"?

Googling around I can believe a few were in Istanbul but they should have been skeptical as there was a news article in October that the cruise line didn’t have a ship. Also found one article from months ago about a lady who sold her house. There are a couple of local interest articles about people who booked the three year cruise. Apparently they were sold on the idea of having an adventure.  

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Googling around I can believe a few were in Istanbul but they should have been skeptical as there was a news article in October that the cruise line didn’t have a ship. Also found one article from months ago about a lady who sold her house. There are a couple of local interest articles about people who booked the three year cruise. Apparently they were sold on the idea of having an adventure.  

Well. they did get an adventure, just not anything near what they expeected.

[jsn55]

In today's climate of 'bargain, discount, cheapest' travel mentality, these sleazeball scammers probably didn't need to do much other than keep shoring up the dreams of great adventure and deep discounts 'if you act fast'. 

 

I spent 7 years on a travel advocate forum; people today are so easily blinded by the 'cheapest' ... difficult to grasp the things travellers will do to buy a trip that checks all their boxes.  Like they take temporary leave of their senses in the excitement of 'a big score' of a wonderful, perfect, cheap adventure.  Something they can brag about at cocktail parties and family gatherings.  For example, it was obvious last summer that 'Vantage Luxury Travel' was going down, but people still post occasionally wondering if 'their cruise' will sail next month or next year.  

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, jsn55 said:

In today's climate of 'bargain, discount, cheapest' travel mentality, these sleazeball scammers probably didn't need to do much other than keep shoring up the dreams of great adventure and deep discounts 'if you act fast'. 

 

I spent 7 years on a travel advocate forum; people today are so easily blinded by the 'cheapest' ... difficult to grasp the things travellers will do to buy a trip that checks all their boxes.  Like they take temporary leave of their senses in the excitement of 'a big score' of a wonderful, perfect, cheap adventure.  Something they can brag about at cocktail parties and family gatherings.  For example, it was obvious last summer that 'Vantage Luxury Travel' was going down, but people still post occasionally wondering if 'their cruise' will sail next month or next year.  

I am sure the allure was “you are so special” more than cheapness. It gets them every time. Bernie Madoff used it, Enron used it, it is tried and true 

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

I am sure the allure was “you are so special” more than cheapness. It gets them every time. Bernie Madoff used it, Enron used it, it is tried and true 

Reading back through Google results they managed to hype it really well. They got a lot of press including all the major cruise industry publications like Cruise Industry News and Seatrade Insider.  USA Today and local press hyped it. No wonder some didn’t see through it as not realistic. The initial ship was deemed unseaworthy so Life at Sea told everyone they were going to buy another ship. A bunch of passengers bailed at that point. When the replacement ship fell through, the Turkish cruise company they partnered with in response to queries said no way they could afford to buy the supposed replacement ship. Yet there were still some passengers who had faith and went to Istanbul. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Charles4515

[Mary229]

11 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Reading back through Google results they managed to hype it really well. They got a lot of press including all the major cruise industry publications like Cruise Industry News and Seatrade Insider.  USA Today and local press hyped it. No wonder some didn’t see through it as not realistic. The initial ship was deemed unseaworthy so Life at Sea told everyone they were going to buy another ship. A bunch of passengers bailed at that point. When the replacement ship fell through, the Turkish cruise company they partnered with in response to queries said no way they could afford to buy the supposed replacement ship. Yet there were still some passengers who had faith and went to Istanbul. 

Of course, the promoters are the ones who write those press releases.  It is not like they send out a cub reporter to “investigate”.  Even if the press shows up they are wined and dined. The PR is well managed.  The only legal question is did they commit fraud or stupidity. 

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, jsn55 said:

In today's climate of 'bargain, discount, cheapest' travel mentality, these sleazeball scammers probably didn't need to do much other than keep shoring up the dreams of great adventure and deep discounts 'if you act fast'. 

 

I spent 7 years on a travel advocate forum; people today are so easily blinded by the 'cheapest' ... difficult to grasp the things travellers will do to buy a trip that checks all their boxes.  Like they take temporary leave of their senses in the excitement of 'a big score' of a wonderful, perfect, cheap adventure.  Something they can brag about at cocktail parties and family gatherings.  For example, it was obvious last summer that 'Vantage Luxury Travel' was going down, but people still post occasionally wondering if 'their cruise' will sail next month or next year.  

We cancelled our 2020 cruise with just a refundable deposit before final payment was due as I saw the writing on the wall with Covid. After all how were you going to do a Norwegian fjords cruise if Norway was closing their ports? When I went to our roll call to say we were bailing out on the cruise, I saw someone had just booked it! I wonder how much of a cheap bargain price they got.

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We cancelled our 2020 cruise with just a refundable deposit before final payment was due as I saw the writing on the wall with Covid. After all how were you going to do a Norwegian fjords cruise if Norway was closing their ports? When I went to our roll call to say we were bailing out on the cruise, I saw someone had just booked it! I wonder how much of a cheap bargain price they got.

I think there were some gaming the system at that point.  They were betting on a cancellation which would have yielded up to a 150% FCC.  I considered doing the same but my predatory urges were suppressed by my conscience 😉

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

I think there were some gaming the system at that point.  They were betting on a cancellation which would have yielded up to a 150% FCC.  I considered doing the same but my predatory urges were suppressed by my conscience 😉

Maybe, but IIRC they sounded excited to be going on the cruise according to their roll call post. Princess cancelled it a few weeks later, just "coincidentally" just a few days after final payment was due.

 

I am not even sure if those offers were out there yet as this was really the beginning of the massive Covid cruise cancellations.

[ldubs]

20 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I think there were some gaming the system at that point.  They were betting on a cancellation which would have yielded up to a 150% FCC.  I considered doing the same but my predatory urges were suppressed by my conscience 😉

 

That's interesting.  I wonder would the FCC have had any value?  An FCC for what I wonder? 

[Host Jazzbeau]

Definitely done now, according to CruiseIndustryNews:

Life at Sea 3 Year World Cruise Cancelled

 

The scariest part is this quote:  "Life at Sea CEO Kendra Holmes resigned from the company in November, according to CNN, which also reported that she is behind a new start-up world cruise under the HLC Cruises banner."

 

With a track record like this, what do you call people who put up money for her next venture?  Cue P.T. Barnum...

[luvtoride]

I'm sure some of you have heard about this story.  Life at Sea Cruises had promised passengers a 3-year cruise, sailing around the world.  Some passengers sold or rented their homes in anticipation of this lifetime cruise opportunity.  Just days before the cruise was to depart, it was "Delayed" and moved its departure date and site from Istanbul to Amsterdam, before finally being cancelled.  What a mess for those who booked this cruise!

 

The three-year cruise is canceled | CNN

[kiwicruiser48]

29 minutes ago, luvtoride said:

I'm sure some of you have heard about this story.  Life at Sea Cruises had promised passengers a 3-year cruise, sailing around the world.  Some passengers sold or rented their homes in anticipation of this lifetime cruise opportunity.  Just days before the cruise was to depart, it was "Delayed" and moved its departure date and site from Istanbul to Amsterdam, before finally being cancelled.  What a mess for those who booked this cruise!

 

The three-year cruise is canceled | CNN

I was almost one of them, lucky me that local property market was bad so hold off on letting go property and decided to book the next one....

Edited November 27, 2023 by kiwicruiser48

[sanger727]

On 11/24/2023 at 6:29 PM, mrgabriel said:

A bit reminiscent of the guy who set up the fake luxury party weekend in the Bahamas.  He’s now out of prison & is planning another one so you can bet this group will be promoting another cruise any day now. 

 

yep, this is Fyre festival at sea. and if you watch the documentary on Netflix, there were plenty of red flags leading up to the trip to cause a reasonable person to have doubts. And still thousands of people flew down to the Bahamas with no festival to go to and nowhere to stay. Somehow common sense goes out the window when someone wants badly enough for it to be true.