Container Ship Struck Key Bridge in Baltimore, Bridge has Collapsed

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, Scottdalfonso said:

I work at the port in Philly, we just had the biggest container ship to visit the East cost come by. We are directly under the Walt whitman bridge, now it's a much bigger bridge than the Key bridge, but the supports for the bridge are both on land. I wonder if a rebuild of the Key bridge will ensure that the main supports are on land, if possible. 

The Patapsco river at the point where the Key bridge is, is 1.6 miles wide, whereas the Whitman bridge's longest span is 2000 feet. Since the Key bridge's longest span (what collapsed) is only 1200 feet, that means there are 1.4 miles of pilings in the river supporting the bridge spans between the shipping channel and shore.  And, in fact, the clearance below the main span of the Key bridge is 185 feet, while the clearance under the Whitman bridge is only 150 feet.

 

While the Whitman bridges total length of 2.2 miles is longer than the Key bridge, as noted, all but 2000 feet is over land, while all of the Key bridges 1.6 miles is over water.  While there are suspension bridges that have spans much greater than either the Key or Whitman bridges, the problem comes with whether the land under where you want to place the support piers can withstand the weight and suspension forces of the bridge.  Chesapeake Bay is alluvial, and I'm not sure how far down bedrock is, that would be needed to support a bridge with over a mile of span.

Edited March 27 by chengkp75

[Ocean Boy]

11 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

I do not need to call Royal about what they might do.

 

Just throw it out on CC and I have all of the possibilities.

 

Just have to wait for Royal's official decisions.

 

Patience is a virtue which I have been forced to learn.

Maybe RCI is also reading the thread to see what their options are.

[Engineroom Snipe]

9 hours ago, OBX-Cruisers said:

Excellent point ignored by others it seems.  Norfolk has been underused for many years now and it is a logical choice if the Baltimore port is out of service for months vs weeks.

 

If you read through all of the posts, parking in Bayonne has been discussed many times by many posters to include myself.

 

We are not sticking our heads in the sand about the limited amount of immediate parking in Bayonne.

 

At least for the month of April, 2024, the only ship that uses the Bayonne cruise port is Anthem of the Seas with docking on Sundays.

 

For the Vision cruises occurring in April, 2024, there would be plenty of parking.

 

Vision then goes into dry dock and needs no ports until May 30, 2024.

 

This gives about two months from now to discuss another port or find a way to enhance parking when Bayonne is hosting more ships.

 

If people want to cruise, they will have to find some flexibility around the solution.

 

The only alternative will be canceling your cruise and getting a refund and hopefully some future cruise credit.

[Ocean Boy]

10 hours ago, toad455 said:

The lone issue with going to Norfolk is getting staff there. Norfolk hasn't been used since last summer.

You think that is the lone issue with moving the turn around port of a cruise ship?

[Ocean Boy]

10 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

The only other alternative is to take a full refund and "Go Your Own Way" (Rumours , Fleetwood Mac, 1977).

I do share your taste in music, both Cat Stevens and Fleetwood Mac.

[Ocean Boy]

10 hours ago, Jimbo said:

You can always take an Amtrak Train from Norfolk, Va to Baltimore Penn Station, it's about a 5  and half hour train ride, then 5 mile Uber ride to the Port in Baltimore. 

 

On our last cruise we took an 8 hour train Ride from Roanoke, Va. to Newark Penn Station,NJ.  It was a fun way to get to a cruise without dealing with freaking airports.

I like riding trains. If I were to cruise out of NJ I'd probably take Amtrak from RI to Newark.

[Ocean Boy]

10 hours ago, dmwnc1959 said:

They could easily drop Port Canaveral, spend a little extra time at sea getting to the Bahamas. 
 

 

It depends where they provision the ship. It is my understanding, and I could be wrong, that PC is used for provisioning during some port calls.

[A&L_Ont]

14 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Maybe RCI is also reading the thread to see what their options are.

Isn’t that how they formulated their plan for Labadee?😉

[Engineroom Snipe]

11 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I like riding trains. If I were to cruise out of NJ I'd probably take Amtrak from RI to Newark.

@Ocean Boy

 

Until this extraordinary situation resolves itself, everyone has got to be flexible if they have reserved a cabin on the Vision of the Seas.

 

Now people realize how nice the Baltimore Port Terminal is for cruising.

 

"Don't it always seem to go.

That you don't know what you've  got 'til it's gone..."

 

(Big Yellow Taxi, Joni Mitchell, 1970)

Edited March 27 by Engineroom Snipe
Wrong century

[toad455]

I know they technically can't, but Carnival didn't give a timetable of how long they sail out of Norfolk. Just seems like it'll be a "one cruise at a time situation". Royal just has two future Vision cruises to deal with now and then it has some breathing room to figure it out. When is the Vision scheduled to return from its drydock?

[Ocean Boy]

5 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

@Ocean Boy

 

 

"Don't it always seem to go.

That you don't know what you've  got 'til it's gone..."

 

(Big Yellow Taxi, Joni Mitchell, 1970)

These days it is very important to look at things from "Both Sides Now"... another Joni hit possibly better know from the Judy Collins version.

[Engineroom Snipe]

16 minutes ago, toad455 said:

I know they technically can't, but Carnival didn't give a timetable of how long they sail out of Norfolk. Just seems like it'll be a "one cruise at a time situation". Royal just has two future Vision cruises to deal with now and then it has some breathing room to figure it out. When is the Vision scheduled to return from its drydock?

May 30, 2024 is the first date of cruising after dry dock.

[Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

May 30, 2024 is the first date of cruising after dry dock.

On this dry dock for Vision,are they actually changing/adding things or is this just adding lip stick to a pig dry dock? Does anyone know?

[Engineroom Snipe]

7 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

On this dry dock for Vision,are they actually changing/adding things or is this just adding lip stick to a pig dry dock? Does anyone know?

The cruise ship dry dock schedules do not mention any type of major changes. Typical maintenance for under water gear and structure.  Mandatory inspections for insurance and registry purposes.

[Engineroom Snipe]

12 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

On this dry dock for Vision,are they actually changing/adding things or is this just adding lip stick to a pig dry dock? Does anyone know?

 

@Jimbo,

 

While you only see a pig with lipstick, I see a magic animal full of bacon, chops, ribs, loins, belly, butt, fillet, spare ribs, ham, baby back ribs, and hock.

 

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

😉

[BND]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

I like riding trains. If I were to cruise out of NJ I'd probably take Amtrak from RI to Newark.

We always do.  We just did this past Oct/Nov for our Jewel cruise out of Bayonne. We also use the Auto Train for FL trips.  We have an Amtrak MasterCard that earns us points.  We haven't paid for a full train trip in a while.

[death_star]

There is a marine terminal at Sparrows Point outside the bridge that's run by Tradepoint Atlantic. It's used mainly for RoRo at the moment but there really isn't anything that would prevent a cruise ship docking there with the normal port ramp style gangway. Process the passengers at the cruise terminal then bus them over for embarking. I remember we used to have to take a bus at Bayonne to the ship so it would be similar. Would be fine for the next few cruises before dry dock. 

 

Provisioning just means the trucks drive to the other terminal. 

[Ourusualbeach]

51 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

On this dry dock for Vision,are they actually changing/adding things or is this just adding lip stick to a pig dry dock? Does anyone know?

They won't be doing any major upgrades to Vision or Radiance class ships.  mechanical as well as some cosmetic stuff to keep them presentable enough to sail for the next few years

[Jimbo]

39 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

@Jimbo,

 

While you only see a pig with lipstick, I see a magic animal full of bacon, chops, ribs, loins, belly, butt, fillet, spare ribs, ham, baby back ribs, and hock.

 

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

😉

I think most people like whatever ship is in Baltimore for the convenience of just driving to the port.....There isn't alot of people flying to Baltimore to jump on Vision is there,when  there is so many other options to fly to in Florida.

[Engineroom Snipe]

14 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

I think most people like whatever ship is in Baltimore for the convenience of just driving to the port.....There isn't alot of people flying to Baltimore to jump on Vision is there,when  there is so many other options to fly to in Florida.

I agree with your statement. In my case, my wife does not get many annual leave days so until her retirement, we drive same day to Baltimore and Bayonne.

 

Avoids the extra day of flying and motel on both sides of the cruise.

 

We would fly to Florida except for time consumption.

 

Edited March 27 by Engineroom Snipe
typo

[KmomChicago]

2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Maybe RCI is also reading the thread to see what their options are.

They are lucky to get all this free advice, aren’t they? 😂🚢🎓

[SRF]

15 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

I think most people like whatever ship is in Baltimore for the convenience of just driving to the port.....There isn't alot of people flying to Baltimore to jump on Vision is there,when  there is so many other options to fly to in Florida.

Actually I have met a lot of people on board that flew into Baltimore just to cruise.

 

Mainly from upper mid-west.  Not much difference flying to Baltimore or other ports.

[KmomChicago]

18 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

I think most people like whatever ship is in Baltimore for the convenience of just driving to the port.....There isn't alot of people flying to Baltimore to jump on Vision is there,when  there is so many other options to fly to in Florida.

Well I thought the same, and over on the Carnival thread someone from Colorado pointed out they are flying to Baltimore for an upcoming voyage.
 

I still think that’s a small % of Baltimore cruisers for most sailings. Carnival has a transatlantic in mid April which I of course realize is a unique situation that could and no doubt did attract a different clientele than typical including far flung passengers. For the routine 7 day routes it’s gotta be largely semi locals choosing it specifically to avoid the hassle and expense of flights.

[KmomChicago]

16 minutes ago, SRF said:

Actually I have met a lot of people on board that flew into Baltimore just to cruise.

 

Mainly from upper mid-west.  Not much difference flying to Baltimore or other ports.

Difference is, massively better selection of brands and ships and itineraries from Florida. Baltimore to Nassau is fine once and it’s also fine if I can get to port cheaply and easily. Which I can NOT. I tested it and won’t do it again. Of course there will always be some flyers. 
 

I would guess if we could see the stats, Baltimore would have one of the highest drive to flight ratios of any US port.

Edited March 27 by KmomChicago

[toad455]

3 minutes ago, KmomChicago said:

Difference is, massively better selection of brands and ships and itineraries from Florida. Baltimore to Nassau is fine once and it’s also fine if I can get to port cheaply and easily. Of course there will always be some flyers. 
 

I would guess if we could see the stats, Baltimore would have one of the highest drive to flight ratios of any US port.

 

Both Baltimore and Bayonne offer different itineraries for longer cruises. But the 7-day cruises will usually be Bahamas. On a rare occasion, they'll have one to Bermuda.