Container Ship Struck Key Bridge in Baltimore, Bridge has Collapsed

[Another_Critic]

1 hour ago, alfaeric said:

But those are considered Eastern Caribbean cruises, not Southern.  We were just on both of those islands on the Vision, so I'm well aware that they are out of Baltimore.  Again, those islands are reachable from NJ on the Anthem- so they are far from unique to Baltimore.

 

Royal markets the ABC's as Southern Caribbean.  I've gotten there mostly from San Juan, but recently out of FLL on Harmony.

 

If you want to insist that Eastern Caribbean cruises are Southern, that's fine, just not how they are marketed.  And it's confusing when people mix terminology.

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BWI|nights:gte12&country=USA

 

Complain to RCI, not ME.

 

 

Cape Liberty:  With Barbados and St. Lucia = Southern  Without = Eastern

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BYE|nights:9~11,gte12|ship:AN,OY&country=USA

 

Edited April 6 by Another_Critic

[Tatka]

Nope, they are Southern

 

Royal even markets cruises with Antigua and St Kitts (Anthem) as Southern 

 

 

[Another_Critic]

Back on topic ...

 

Body of third construction worker recovered from Key Bridge wreckage in Baltimore (msn.com)

[smokeybandit]

They're starting to remove the damaged containers on the bow of the ship today.

[LB_NJ]

21 hours ago, alfaeric said:

They can adjust the number of 11/12 nighters out of NJ.  The time it takes to sail to destinations south is almost exactly the same, anyway.

 

Really, the only thing special about Baltimore is the small, old, ships which generally means lower priced itineraries.  We would have chosen the Anthem had the prices been anywhere near the Vision for the B2Bs we just took.

Personally we prefer the older smaller ships (hate Anthem, will never sail on her again) which is why we have a cruise booked out of Baltimore.

 

Different ships for different tastes.

[HBE4]

15 hours ago, Another_Critic said:

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BWI|nights:gte12&country=USA

 

Complain to RCI, not ME.

 

 

Cape Liberty:  With Barbados and St. Lucia = Southern  Without = Eastern

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises?search=departurePort:BYE|nights:9~11,gte12|ship:AN,OY&country=USA

 

 

15 hours ago, Tatka said:

Nope, they are Southern

 

Royal even markets cruises with Antigua and St Kitts (Anthem) as Southern 

 

 

 

 

Looks like St, Martin & Antigua identify with both  Eastern and Southern. Does that make them itinerary-fluid? 😁

 

Hope that joke isn't to edgy🤪

 

[smokeybandit]

It seems like Puerto Rico tends to be the "border" between eastern and southern.

[Charles4515]

14 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

 

 

Looks like St, Martin & Antigua identify with both  Eastern and Southern. Does that make them itinerary-fluid? 😁

 

Hope that joke isn't to edgy🤪

 

What they call it depends on how the cruise line wants to market it. 

[Ocean Boy]

22 minutes ago, LB_NJ said:

Personally we prefer the older smaller ships (hate Anthem, will never sail on her again) which is why we have a cruise booked out of Baltimore.

 

Different ships for different tastes.

What did you not like about Anthem? I've never been aboard.

[LB_NJ]

41 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

What did you not like about Anthem? I've never been aboard.

I didn't like the food.  I thought it was too big.  It didn't have an outside promenade.

 

The only good thing was the entertainment.

 

 

[Charles4515]

There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year  by keeping what is left in place, the approaches,  and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would  not rebuild it like it was built. . 

[not-enough-cruising]

23 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year  by keeping what is left in place, the approaches,  and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would  not rebuild it like it was built. . 

Bridge design and construction had little to do with the collapse. 
The lack of adequate barricades around the support structures was the downfall. 

[Pratique]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year  by keeping what is left in place, the approaches,  and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would  not rebuild it like it was built. . 

They have already said the new bridge will be built to current standards, so replicating the original truss probably won't cut it. Also, truss bridges are heavier and more expensive than cable stayed bridges, which is the most likely way they will go with it.

[alfaeric]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

There is an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal by a civil engineer who proposes rebulding the bridge before the end of the year  by keeping what is left in place, the approaches,  and just replacing the 1200 foot span, truss design and all. I hope not. The design is outdated and I would hope that lessons would be learned from the catastrophe and that they would  not rebuild it like it was built. . 

Everyone can have an opinion.  Mine is to use a design that puts the main structure far enough in from the channel to add a large grounding buffer to the bridge structure.  May be cheaper than adding a bunch of dolphins, and pretty effective since a ship can go aground only so much.

[death_star]

44 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Everyone can have an opinion.  Mine is to use a design that puts the main structure far enough in from the channel to add a large grounding buffer to the bridge structure.  May be cheaper than adding a bunch of dolphins, and pretty effective since a ship can go aground only so much.

Then it's really mainly barge traffic to put up a dolphin or something against vs a container ship. Maybe they'll take down some of the approaches too since those piers where the alternate channels are now would be the weakest link so to speak. 

[smokeybandit]

The Key Bridge was a fine design for 1970s needs.

 

Things have changed, obviously, since then, and I'd expect a very different bridge to replace it.

[jean87510]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:28 AM, Another_Critic said:

Which cruises out of Cape Liberty have gone to Aruba?

Explorer 2014 Reposition cruise from Bayonne to Port Canaveral.  Had 8 ports which included ABCs.  

[jean87510]

I will add I prefer the Baltimore port as it's closer to us and parking is cheaper than Bayonne.  I just don't like the itineraries because most of them have CocoCay and Nassau or other Bahamas which I despise.  If I missed an itinerary without these, and have the Southern Caribbean, let me know.

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, jean87510 said:

I will add I prefer the Baltimore port as it's closer to us and parking is cheaper than Bayonne.  I just don't like the itineraries because most of them have CocoCay and Nassau or other Bahamas which I despise.  If I missed an itinerary without these, and have the Southern Caribbean, let me know.

Typically, over the winter Baltimore ships include 11/12/13 day sailings to Eastern/Southern Caribbean which don’t include any stops in the Bahamas. 

[shipgeeks]

I'm just happy that Baltimore never has 3- and 4-night cruises!  Apart from that, I'm very pleased with the variety of itineraries, most of which are 9 and 12-ish nights.

[TPKeller]

On 4/6/2024 at 5:48 PM, not-enough-cruising said:

Bridge design and construction had little to do with the collapse. 
The lack of adequate barricades around the support structures was the downfall. 

 

Go back and watch the first NTSB press conference after the collapse.  The Chair of the NTSB described the design of the bridge as fracture critical.  That literally means that if even one load-bearing component of the bridge fails, the entire bridge will fail.

This weakness was knowingly and intentionally designed into the bridge from the drawing board.  The Chair went on to say that modern bridges are built with redundancy.

Design played a huge role in the collapse.  Obviously, if the ship had not hit it, it would still be standing, but it's simply incorrect to say that the design had "little to do" with it.

 

I doubt we will ever know if a more robust design would have survived the allision, although I suspect the engineers will certainly play those simulations with the designs they propose to replace the bridge.  I suspect that as reporters start covering the news of whatever new bridge is to come, that will be a very often asked question, "Will this bridge survive a similar impact?"  If the interviewees consistently redirect those questions to talk about increased protection against future impacts, then I guess we will be able to assume the answer is "no!"

 

Theron

[alfaeric]

Reviving this thread as there's going to be a limited access channel opening on Thursday.  

 

 

So it's quite possible the channel will be totally back open when the Vision returns to service.

[shipgeeks]

Anyone else besides Mr. Shipgeeks watching the recovery process for hours at a time?

[Engineroom Snipe]

2 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Reviving this thread as there's going to be a limited access channel opening on Thursday.  

 

 

So it's quite possible the channel will be totally back open when the Vision returns to service.

@alfaeric,

 

This post is in reference, tongue-in-cheek (and maybe biting it!) to an earlier post where I would I bet my house on this being impossible

 

Thanks, just when I thought this thread would disappear.

 

On the advice of the shadiest lawyer I could find, who just happens to list on his resume that he worked in Casino Bankruptcies in Atlantic City, NJ, in the early 1990s with some famous clients:

 

I have used my house as collateral against a loan. My house is only valued at $500,000 but I believe that they do not have any appreciation for the unique value my name brings to the property and will value it at about 10, maybe 20 times what they say it is worth.

 

There could be about $100,000 equity left (of $10,000,000) but after the lawyers, taxmen, and real estate people get finished chewing on the carcass, I believe that the posters who have challenged me will get at least $17.00 each to buy you one drink with gratuities included on your next cruise.

 

You may now dance on my grave.

 

I am going to be so happy I was wrong and have to eat crow.

 

I still have a great vacation home in the Cayman Islands.

 

🤣

 

 

[Pratique]

30 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Reviving this thread as there's going to be a limited access channel opening on Thursday.

Caveat is that this temporary channel is only for essential vessels (whatever that means) and will only be open until Monday or Tuesday. The Baltimore Sun reports the channel will then remain closed until May 10.

 

"The Captain of the Port (COTP) plans to establish the Fort McHenry Limited Access Channel for commercially essential vessels on Thursday, April 25th until 6 a.m. Monday, April 29th or Tuesday, April 30th if weather adversely impacts vessel transits." https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/DispForm.aspx?ID=89633&Source=/Lists/Content/DispForm.aspx?ID=89633