Container Ship Struck Key Bridge in Baltimore, Bridge has Collapsed

[leaveitallbehind]

And I believe Vision is on a southern Caribbean cruise from Baltimore at present.  Clearly that ship will be diverted to another port for its return as the waterway into the harbor is likely going to be closed for quite some time.  Perhaps Cape Liberty?  I would have to believe immediate future sailings will be affected as well as all marine traffic will be interrupted to and from the port and inner harbor having to pass through the bridge area for access.

 

But of singular importance is the concern for anyone on the bridge at the time and any others affected by this tragedy. 

Edited March 26 by leaveitallbehind

[BND]

26 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Delaware Memorial Bridge has a clearance of 174 feet.  Vision class ships are 165-170 feet (not quite sure), and they won't let a ship under unless there is a minimum clearance of 10-12 feet.  And, this will vary with tides.

Tell that to all those people who think that Vision class only has a couple of feet of clearance, sigh.  

[jimbo5544]

Just now, temple1 said:

They will probably have to take 695 around the west of Baltimore. Longer route but not tunnels.

Agreed, traveled the 94 rout many times.  When we had our motorhomes had to go 695.  Key bridge was way shorter route than the west route.

[toad455]

Any chance the navel pier in Atlantic City, NJ could work in an emergency situation like this? No bridges to clear. 

[Kellie in Texas]

1 hour ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

different angle and commentary

 

@Cru1s1ng2009 do you know who this person is describing the video? It's very informative and sad to see that bridge fall. 

[Engineroom Snipe]

4 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

I think more likely they'd just run the shuttle buses from Bayonne to Baltimore. Amtrak's already busy this time of year so you'd probably be asking hundreds of people to stand and control their baggage. 

Like the airlines, I forgot about rail holiday travel. I wonder how many buses they could find in such a short time. That is a more limiting factor in my mind.

 

Keep thinking because Royal has got to pull a rabbit out of its hat.

 

I agree that Bayonne is becoming the logical choice for debarkation of the existing passengers.

 

How do we efficiently get 2,400 passengers from the Port of Bayonne to the Port of Baltimore?

 

Million dollar question.

 

Since Bayonne does have parking capacity and has had Vision sized vessels dock during weekdays, they could salvage the last two cruises from there.

[Cru1s1ng2009]

4 minutes ago, Kellie in Texas said:

@Cru1s1ng2009 do you know who this person is describing the video? It's very informative and sad to see that bridge fall. 

 

4 minutes ago, Kellie in Texas said:

@Cru1s1ng2009 do you know who this person is describing the video? It's very informative and sad to see that bridge fall. 

I dont, sorry. will see if i can get info. 

[Charles4515]

17 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

I think more likely they'd just run the shuttle buses from Bayonne to Baltimore. Amtrak's already busy this time of year so you'd probably be asking hundreds of people to stand and control their baggage. 

Buses seem most likely if they debark at Bayonne because it would be direct but Amtrak could easily handle the people and baggage. They could also add extra trains. There is also Newark Airport. 

Edited March 26 by Charles4515

[BillB48]

3 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

 

I dont, sorry. will see if i can get info. 

His name is Sal Mercagliano (may misspelled last name).  He is a former licensed merchant mariner now a college prof.  He has a YT channel What's Going on with Shipping.

[mo&fran]

2 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

 

I dont, sorry. will see if i can get info. 

Click on the upper left hand corner of the video and it takes you to his youtube account. I think it is like a chengkp75 type person on youtube.

[Wehwalt]

16 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Buses seem most likely if they debark at Bayonne because it would be direct but Amtrak could easily handle the people and baggage. They could also add extra trains. There is also Newark Airport. 

Yeah, I considered the airport but really you'll get to Baltimore quicker with a direct bus than with a bus to a plane (or a train) to a bus.

 

There are large numbers of buses in the NY/NJ area. I think the limiting factor would be the number of properly-licensed drivers.

Edited March 26 by Wehwalt

[chengkp75]

48 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Thanks for sharing. This is a detailed and clear explanation.

 

9 minutes ago, Kellie in Texas said:

@Cru1s1ng2009 do you know who this person is describing the video? It's very informative and sad to see that bridge fall. 

I don't know who this blogger is, or what his maritime experience is, but it has some errors in his analysis.

 

The most glaring error is when he says that the black smoke coming from the ship indicates an "engine problem".  This is not correct.  The type of diesel engines used on ships like this, are connected directly to the propeller, and are required to stop whenever the propeller is needed to be stopped, or reversed.  Therefore, the engine needs to stop and restart when going from ahead to astern, and this always results in a cloud of black smoke when the engine starts.  Also, if the engine is immediately placed to a "full astern" bell, the black smoke will continue until the turbocharger catches up with the air needed by the engine at that high load.  And, the engine that drives the propeller is not the engine that provides electricity to the ship, so when the generator engine failed, causing the black out, the "main engine" that drives the propeller stops as well, so when power comes back on, it restarts, causing the black smoke again.

 

He also claims that by backing down (going stern to stop the ship), the ship will veer to one side or another (and this is correct), but that if they continued to allow the ship to glide forward without propulsion, that they would have had "some control".  This is also not correct.  A traditional rudder loses effectiveness when the speed of the ship through the water is less than 5 knots (that's why ships use thrusters to swing ships at the dock, and tugs to push the ship when operating at low speed along the dock).  So, there would have been almost no benefit from the rudder when coasting forward.

 

Steering would also not be lost when the power went out.  One of the two electro-hydraulic steering systems is powered by the emergency generator (which comes on automatically when the ship loses power), and when in confined waters (under a pilot's orders), this is the steering system that would have been in use, just because this could have happened.

 

I can't remember other things he said, but it may come to me later.

[chengkp75]

And, slightly of a lower priority (sarcasm), is the fact that Baltimore is the 9th largest port in the US, and the largest port for importation of cars on the East Coast.  Then there is the container traffic, which is going to affect the US economy for a few months.

[SRF]

24 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Buses seem most likely if they debark at Bayonne because it would be direct but Amtrak could easily handle the people and baggage. They could also add extra trains. There is also Newark Airport. 

Have you ridden Amtrak?  Trains are close to full. Not going to absorb 3000 people plus luggage. 
 

[Cru1s1ng2009]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

I don't know who this blogger is, or what his maritime experience is, but it has some errors in his analysis.

 

The most glaring error is when he says that the black smoke coming from the ship indicates an "engine problem".  This is not correct.  The type of diesel engines used on ships like this, are connected directly to the propeller, and are required to stop whenever the propeller is needed to be stopped, or reversed.  Therefore, the engine needs to stop and restart when going from ahead to astern, and this always results in a cloud of black smoke when the engine starts.  Also, if the engine is immediately placed to a "full astern" bell, the black smoke will continue until the turbocharger catches up with the air needed by the engine at that high load.  And, the engine that drives the propeller is not the engine that provides electricity to the ship, so when the generator engine failed, causing the black out, the "main engine" that drives the propeller stops as well, so when power comes back on, it restarts, causing the black smoke again.

 

He also claims that by backing down (going stern to stop the ship), the ship will veer to one side or another (and this is correct), but that if they continued to allow the ship to glide forward without propulsion, that they would have had "some control".  This is also not correct.  A traditional rudder loses effectiveness when the speed of the ship through the water is less than 5 knots (that's why ships use thrusters to swing ships at the dock, and tugs to push the ship when operating at low speed along the dock).  So, there would have been almost no benefit from the rudder when coasting forward.

 

Steering would also not be lost when the power went out.  One of the two electro-hydraulic steering systems is powered by the emergency generator (which comes on automatically when the ship loses power), and when in confined waters (under a pilot's orders), this is the steering system that would have been in use, just because this could have happened.

 

I can't remember other things he said, but it may come to me later.

Thank you! We all trust your knowledge and skills. 

 

[Cru1s1ng2009]

26 minutes ago, BillB48 said:

His name is Sal Mercagliano (may misspelled last name).  He is a former licensed merchant mariner now a college prof.  He has a YT channel What's Going on with Shipping.

thank you

 

Here is another TY vid. 

 

 

[Defender1158]

40 minutes ago, Kellie in Texas said:

@Cru1s1ng2009 do you know who this person is describing the video? It's very informative and sad to see that bridge fall. 

I have been watching this gentleman for a while.  He is a licensed merchant mariner and volunteer fire department captain.  He does a very good job of explaining maritime issues and his background qualifies him to discuss serious incidents.  

[jerseyjjs]

3 hours ago, rrraydon said:

Maybe they can dock at Norfolk, Va port. 

 

 

Bayonne, NJ is a closer bus ride.

[grandgeezer]

5 hours ago, Scottdalfonso said:

Not gonna lie, first thing I thought was, maybe they'll build the new bridge higher, at least. 

It sounds like a mechanical issue on the container ship, height wouldn’t make a difference. They have had ships going in and out of the port for years.

[Cruising Auntie]

I think the vehicles they see on sonar are that of the eight workers that were on the bridge filling potholes. Two have been found one critical condition. One walked away with no injuries. Six workers are still missing. If you watch the video, it looks like it’s the workers trucks with the lights flashing that went into the water. 
thank goodness the ship sent the Mayday out and they were able to stop the flow of traffic in both directions fairly quickly. 

[Another_Critic]

1 minute ago, grandgeezer said:

It sounds like a mechanical issue on the container ship, height wouldn’t make a difference. They have had ships going in and out of the port for years.

The poster meant higher to allow larger cruise ships (which need more clearance).

[PATRLR]

49 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

Like the airlines, I forgot about rail holiday travel. I wonder how many buses they could find in such a short time. That is a more limiting factor in my mind.

Seems they'd have a better chance of finding enough busses for NY/NJ seeing as they can pull busses from all the northeast population centers north, south and west of there.

[toad455]

The Carnival Legend will be first to return. If she ends up going to Manhattan, then it should be assumed the Vision will dock in Bayonne.

[Cruising Auntie]

The cargo ship hit the bridge directly. Nothing to do with height 

[PATRLR]

24 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, the engine that drives the propeller is not the engine that provides electricity to the ship, so when the generator engine failed, causing the black out, the "main engine" that drives the propeller stops as well,

I'm struggling to parse this. The blue highlighted text seems to contradict the yellow.  The yellow says the drive engine and the electricity are not the same source, but the blue seems to say they are connected.  What am I misunderstanding here?