Dogs

[HappyInVan]

2 hours ago, Destiny0315 said:

Here's an interesting video about the dogs(and chickens!)that stayed onboard the historic Queen Mary in the past...

https://youtu.be/iEswhQWmuu4?si=KsVauK5ziAdXBHQq

 

 She's First Class back in the day. Maybe she's a duchess? Who can say no to her?

 

Or, she's billionaire. Don't know why she's not on her own ship or plane with her pets.🙂

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, Destiny0315 said:

Here's an interesting video about the dogs(and chickens!)that stayed onboard the historic Queen Mary in the past...

https://youtu.be/iEswhQWmuu4?si=KsVauK5ziAdXBHQq

 

You can arrange for dogs on Cunard transatlantic today. They just cannot leave the kennel.

[House_Atreides]

3 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

And it is really unfortunate that those that abuse the rules cause legitimate service animals to come into (unfair) question.  Particularly the less obvious one such as diabetes dogs.  And I think I read that a dog can be trained to tell when an epileptic is about to go into a seizure.

Hi!

Ive trained SDs for many years.  As far as seizures go, yes, a seizure alert dog is possible however not very reliable in detection.  Dogs are trained in service to take care of the person afterwards, for instance getting help for the person, or providing a place for the person to put their head rather than hitting it on the floor.

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

They have kennels.  Try getting one of those kennels. 

 

Yes, usually the first accommodation to sell out for a TA.

[House_Atreides]

4 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

I say you're lucky and fortunate you've not encountered a non-service dog on a cruise. Just because you haven't, does not mean it's not happening. This thread is an indication this is not a unique one time incident - it's a real issue. A simple search here on CC will result in multiple threads of multiple incidents. 

The holiday K'dam cruise as well as the one after are 2 recent examples. Unfortunate reality of cruising today.

Just simply not service animals.

I was on this cruise.

The ladies with the dogs were total frauds.

When I asked questions, because I am a service dog trainer, over two days, I got 2 different answers from the lady pictured on what service does/do the dog(s) perform.  How do the dg(s) alert to your condition?  Totally made up answers were given, on the fly.

Staff was alerted, although not by myself, and later in the cruise, the dogs were not seen anymore.  

[Haljo1935]

6 minutes ago, House_Atreides said:

I was on this cruise.

The ladies with the dogs were total frauds.

When I asked questions, because I am a service dog trainer, over two days, I got 2 different answers from the lady pictured on what service does/do the dog(s) perform.  How do the dg(s) alert to your condition?  Totally made up answers were given, on the fly.

Staff was alerted, although not by myself, and later in the cruise, the dogs were not seen anymore.  

I personally had multiple conversations w/senior crew regarding the dogs. I provided pictures and videos which included barking, eating food off dishes in the hallway, being off leash and running into my cabin. I saw the dogs up to and including debarkation. That picture was taken about 2/3 into the cruise.

I also notified both HAL Seattle and CCL Miami.

For anyone (not you, @House_Atreides) who may be wondering,  I don't consider any of those behaviors something a service animal would do.

[Kay S]

4 hours ago, cccole said:

It really is a simple yes or no.  If you have a service animal it is o.k.  "Depends" on what...lying?  Non legitimate service animals should not be onboard.  If you lie and bring your family pet on board, well...unless HAL cares there is not a problem.  I think our dog would be a great cruiser.  Cherie  

I believe the question was does the ADA have authority on cruise ships.  The question was not does the ADA allow for non-service dogs on cruise ships.  Two different issues.  

[Kay S]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, it is a question of "law or not law".  Your state has a law about getting a doctor's letter for a handicap placard.  That is the law.  The law that governs service animals, the ADA, a federal law, specifically states that establishment owners can only ask two questions regarding service dogs;  one, "is that a service animal", and two "what service is the dog trained to provide for the owner".  That's it.  That is the law, and asking any other questions is against the law.  Now, SCOTUS has ruled, in Spector v NCL, that foreign flag cruise ships do not fall entirely under the ADA.  Specifically, the cruise ship's "internal policies and procedures" are not subject to the ADA.  So, while the ADA requires the cruise line to have accessible cabins, and to not charge more for accessible cabins, the policy of requiring documentation to obtain an accessible cabin is up to the cruise line.  Their determination as to whether or not to allow you to book an accessible cabin (their internal policy) is different than their ability to not allow you onboard due to your disability (ADA requirement).  Asking whether or not a person needs a service animal onboard is to question and possibly deny that person accommodation on the ship (illegal under the ADA, and not an "internal policy")

For my friend who asks about the ADA and cruise ships, I refer you to this post which I have gone back to find for you.  (Emphasis is mine.)  So as I see it, the answer is not strictly yes or strictly no but it "depends" on whether the issue is the ship's "internal policies and procedures" or not.

 

Thanks you chenkpg75 for the clear explanation.

[Wehwalt]

10 hours ago, House_Atreides said:

I was on this cruise.

The ladies with the dogs were total frauds.

When I asked questions, because I am a service dog trainer, over two days, I got 2 different answers from the lady pictured on what service does/do the dog(s) perform.  How do the dg(s) alert to your condition?  Totally made up answers were given, on the fly.

Staff was alerted, although not by myself, and later in the cruise, the dogs were not seen anymore.  

I think those are very reasonable actions by all concerned except the pet owner. The ADA does not prevent private parties who are not providing the accommodations from asking questions, recording information such as photographs, or making reports. I believe Florida and other states have made falsely representing an animal to be a service animal an offense, and while I am sure Florida has no jurisdiction over ships at sea, it does over cruise terminals.

[AKJonesy]

I think people are just sick and tired of people bringing their emotional support dogs everywhere and then on top of it, they want to make sure you notice them.  I sat down in ANC concourse a couple of weeks ago next to a young woman who had a dog in a carrier.  The dog was completely quiet.  Then, after a few seconds after I sat down, the girl stared talking to the silent dog asking it questions.  🙂  (Are you doing ok?)  Now, if that dog had responded and said something like, "'Im ok", then I would've been impressed.  Seriously asking the dog if it's doing ok? It was completely silent. I moved away.  As I said, I give them a wide berth.  Another situation, I get on a plane and this guy has a lapdog out of it's carrier on my seat.  I just stood there and finally said, this is my seat.  Last summer, a flight attendant asked me if someone could put their dog under my bigger middle seat opening.  I asked where the person was sitting and they were in the aisle.  I said I would sit in the aisle seat, but no, I would not have the dog under my seat opening.  I think we are tired of people bringing their dogs everywhere...in the carts at the grocery store, etc.  What's the deal?  They can't leave them at home while they shop?  Bologna.  You can spot the fake service dogs everywhere because the owner generally wants you to fawn all over them.  My advice, give these people a wide berth.  

Edited April 10 by AKJonesy

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, AKJonesy said:

I think people are just sick and tired of people bringing their emotional support dogs everywhere and then on top of it, they want to make sure you notice them.  I sat down in ANC concourse a couple of weeks ago next to a young woman who had a dog in a carrier.  The dog was completely quiet.  Then, after a few seconds after I sat down, the girl stared talking to the silent dog asking it questions.  🙂  (Are you doing ok?)  Now, if that dog had responded and said something like, "'Im ok", then I would've been impressed.  Seriously asking the dog if it's doing ok? It was completely silent. I moved away.  As I said, I give them a wide berth.  Another situation, I get on a plane and this guy has a lapdog out of it's carrier on my seat.  I just stood there and finally said, this is my seat.  Last summer, a flight attendant asked me if someone could put their dog under my bigger middle seat opening.  I asked where the person was sitting and they were in the aisle.  I said I would sit in the aisle seat, but no, I would not have the dog under my seat opening.  I think we are tired of people bringing their dogs everywhere...in the carts at the grocery store, etc.  What's the deal?  They can't leave them at home while they shop?  Bologna.  You can spot the fake service dogs everywhere because the owner generally wants you to fawn all over them.  My advice, give these people a wide berth.  

The same entitled people use the wheelchair service at airlines.  Once they figure out they can do it on cruise ships they will do it there too. Many times while escorting my elderly mom I have seen whole gaggles of people from a single van get out and jump into attendant chairs - often it looks like a bunch of young women going on holiday.  Taking selfies and prancing about. 

[Spiffy]

11 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

I personally had multiple conversations w/senior crew regarding the dogs. I provided pictures and videos which included barking, eating food off dishes in the hallway, being off leash and running into my cabin. I saw the dogs up to and including debarkation. That picture was taken about 2/3 into the cruise.

I also notified both HAL Seattle and CCL Miami.

For anyone (not you, @House_Atreides) who may be wondering,  I don't consider any of those behaviors something a service animal would do.

I think that people need to report inappropriate behavior by the dog or person with the dog to the cruiseline so there can be documentation by the cruiseline to deny boarding the next time.  The ADA will not change soon but with documentation a business can have some legal documentation to prevent the same people from disrupting other people in the future. 

It does not matter what tasks a service dog provides if they cannot maintain a standard of good behavior.

 

Mary

[cruiser man 60]

Is it just American cruise lines that don’t check properly that they’re service dogs, I have never seen a dog on a European cruise line other than guide dogs.

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, cruiser man 60 said:

Is it just American cruise lines that don’t check properly that they’re service dogs, I have never seen a dog on a European cruise line other than guide dogs.

The laws in the UK and EU require training and documentation as a service animal, but that is not required by law, nor can it be requested by a business owner in the US.

[Mary229]

17 minutes ago, cruiser man 60 said:

Is it just American cruise lines that don’t check properly that they’re service dogs, I have never seen a dog on a European cruise line other than guide dogs.

Our laws are very restrictive.  It is difficult to ask appropriate questions without being on the wrong side of the law.  

[Kay S]

How about an emotional support cat? 🙂  When cats can be trained to do service functions for people, will the ADA revise the rules to include them?  The anti-dog sentiment is strong here.  (I know, you can't train a cat to do squat.)  The evidence for this rampant problem is mostly anecdotal.  Have there been any studies to determine if there is widespread abuse of service animal policies?  I don't understand how the occasional sighting of a suspect service dog translates into an epidemic of doggie scofflaws.

Edited April 10 by Kay S
nm

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, Kay S said:

How about an emotional support cat? 🙂  When cats can be trained to do service functions for people, will the ADA revise the rules to include them?  The anti-dog sentiment is strong here. 🙂

You are singing my DH’s song.  Cats have been shown to be very calming and are often used in nursing homes and other group homes.  The “vet cat” we often see is meant to be a calming influence to kenneled animals 

[Bostonjetset]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

You are singing my DH’s song.  Cats have been shown to be very calming and are often used in nursing homes and other group homes.  The “vet cat” we often see is meant to be a calming influence to kenneled animals 

Historically cats had a place on ships. And I would much prefer to see them on ships today than dogs; they are far cleaner, much quieter, and will keep the rats out of the food hold lol. 

[Wehwalt]

3 hours ago, Kay S said:

How about an emotional support cat? 🙂  When cats can be trained to do service functions for people, will the ADA revise the rules to include them?  The anti-dog sentiment is strong here. 🙂

Well, that brings up the emotional support boa constrictor, Squeeze, again: all he wants to do is hug. But seriously, if the regulations under the ADA that deal with this issue are reconsidered, I'm sure that the views of the 33 states that the internet tells me have banned fraudulently presenting pets as service animals will be taken into account.

[Kay S]

2 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

Well, that brings up the emotional support boa constrictor, Squeeze, again: all he wants to do is hug. 

Squeeze is already out of the running since the ADA specifies dogs.

[TRLD]

6 hours ago, AKJonesy said:

I think people are just sick and tired of people bringing their emotional support dogs everywhere and then on top of it, they want to make sure you notice them.  I sat down in ANC concourse a couple of weeks ago next to a young woman who had a dog in a carrier.  The dog was completely quiet.  Then, after a few seconds after I sat down, the girl stared talking to the silent dog asking it questions.  🙂  (Are you doing ok?)  Now, if that dog had responded and said something like, "'Im ok", then I would've been impressed.  Seriously asking the dog if it's doing ok? It was completely silent. I moved away.  As I said, I give them a wide berth.  Another situation, I get on a plane and this guy has a lapdog out of it's carrier on my seat.  I just stood there and finally said, this is my seat.  Last summer, a flight attendant asked me if someone could put their dog under my bigger middle seat opening.  I asked where the person was sitting and they were in the aisle.  I said I would sit in the aisle seat, but no, I would not have the dog under my seat opening.  I think we are tired of people bringing their dogs everywhere...in the carts at the grocery store, etc.  What's the deal?  They can't leave them at home while they shop?  Bologna.  You can spot the fake service dogs everywhere because the owner generally wants you to fawn all over them.  My advice, give these people a wide berth.  

Most dogs on planes are neither emotional support or service. Anyone can bring any dog or cat as long as it's carrier can fit under the seat. Actually one can bring 2 if they buy the seat next to them. The only ones that can be in the cabin and outside a carrier are service animals.

 

Similarly in many places stores do allow pets on leash to be in the store.

 

So in those locations no need to fake service animal status since all are allowed.

 

Probably the most common places where service animal status is faked is hotels to avoid the pet charge and restaurants where local health laws might forbid pets inside.

Edited April 10 by TRLD

[HappyInVan]

17 minutes ago, Kay S said:

 The anti-dog sentiment is strong here.  (I know, you can't train a cat to do squat.) 

 

I believe that you are mistaken, The sentiment here isn't anti-dog. It's clear that we object to certain types of dog owners. I do not blame the dog for what it does naturally.

 

Should you be one of the said dog owners, please don't take it personally! 

Edited April 10 by HappyInVan

[kazu]

22 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

If you see what you think is a fake service dog, report it. But don't expect any explanation or answer from the ship. 

 

 

Definitely report it.  In the case of our cruise, the parties making the complaint did get an answer and the “service” dog (it was one but not properly trained) was no longer allowed in the Lido after several accidents (why I say it was not a fully trained service dog).

 

The passengers who complained were advised so they could report IF it showed up.  

 

 

41 minutes ago, cruiser man 60 said:

Is it just American cruise lines that don’t check properly that they’re service dogs, I have never seen a dog on a European cruise line other than guide dogs.

 

There were 3 service dogs on our European cruise - including the famous Joska who holds a platinum medallion.  Joska is ‘retired’ but accompanies the owners as their new dog is still in training.  Both dogs behaved beautifully and it was a delight to see them asked up at the Medallion ceremony for a special picture.  I had a couple of nice moments when they were ‘released’ so I could lather a bit of love on them.

 

The other dog was a service dog with an owner with a legitimate need but it was not properly trained and accounted for the issue I mentioned above.  She was a sweet dog and in most cases very good but it was obvious from her indiscretions she was not fully/properly trained.

[Kay S]

2 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I believe that you are mistaken, The sentiment here isn't anti-dog. It's clear that we object to certain types of dog owners. I do not blame the dog for what it does naturally.

 

Should you be one of the said dog owners, please don't take it personally! 

I don't know if I totally agree with you here.  I'm not currently a dog owner, but I love them and I'm happy to encounter them anywhere.  My last dog (RIP) was a Rottie, and he would not fit in a stroller, so he had to go bunk with his doggie cousins when we were on vacation.  I really miss my pets when I'm gone, but as people here keep saying, the law's the law.  

[highscar]

If my cat was allowed I would be the one wearing the support vest.  I support him grooming, feeding, stroking, etc etc etc.