Cruise Ship Priest Program

[iflyrc5]

7 minutes ago, dockman said:

I don't know the current mix of hal crew but I believe many of them are muslim as they are from Indonesia..

 

Indonesia is considered a Muslim nation because of its large Muslim population, with 87% of Indonesians identifying as Muslim in 2022.

The Philippines proudly boasts to be the only Christian nation in Asia. More than 86 percent of the population is Roman Catholic.  Therefore, this policy change impacts many HAL crew members.

[epanchenko]

I am disappointed by this decision as well.  I was in Cozumel a month ago on another cruise line, and I essentially wasted my port day (couldn't really plan any excursions) just to go to Mass.  In Nassau years ago I was worried about getting back to my ship when I went to Mass (there was a medical emergency that made it a port day instead of a ship day, I already had a dispensation from a priest).  I enjoyed going to Mass when I took a HAL cruise in Alaska.  I book my cruises around having a port day available on Sunday.

[kacurl]

This is one of the main reasons we sail with Hal😔

[Himself]

2 hours ago, dockman said:

I don't know the current mix of hal crew but I believe many of them are muslim as they are from Indonesia..

 

Indonesia is considered a Muslim nation because of its large Muslim population, with 87% of Indonesians identifying as Muslim in 2022.

However, the bartenders are Phillapino are many of the cooks and girls in the office.

[TiogaCruiser]

Not being Catholic, I feel for those of you who are and have benefited from having mass available onboard. I’ve appreciated it when the priest has lead the non- denominational meeting (not all were willing to), and I’ve attended Mass a couple of times when there wasn’t another service. 
 

One cruise the priest was quite visible and jumped right in helping staff get passengers off and excursions organized. He was also a very calming influence when we were the fourth ship into Cabo, running 2 hours late and waiting to clear and tender. Some pax weren’t being very nice to staff and he really helped de-escalate many. 

[dockman]

3 hours ago, iflyrc5 said:

The Philippines proudly boasts to be the only Christian nation in Asia. More than 86 percent of the population is Roman Catholic.  Therefore, this policy change impacts many HAL crew members.

So do the muslim crews get someone to "minister" to  them if they want it?  What about the Buddhists, Hindus and others?

 

It may have changed but at one time i would venture to guess there were as many indonesians or maybe more than Fillipino crew. I would think that HAL would need to take that into account and maybe they do?  

[cruiser man 60]

I assume a lot of passengers and crew are not catholic and maybe requests made by Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Shinto etc wanting similar treatment 

[iflyrc5]

Below is the response I received from HAL Ship Services.

 

Thank you for contacting the Holland America Line. 

 

Beginning in 2025, we will no longer provide a priest on every cruise, instead prioritizing pastoral care by providing daily Catholic mass on ocean crossings and cruises to Hawaii, the Panama Canal, Asia, South America, Australia, and New Zealand where guests are further from home. 

 

We will also begin providing a Catholic Priest and Protestant Minister to lead services over Christmas and Easter, as well as a Jewish Rabbi or Cantor for our holiday sailings over Hannukah. In addition, we will continue to have a priest, rabbi and Protestant minister on every Legendary and Grand Voyage.

 

 With Warm Regards,

 

Ship Services

 

450 Third Avenue West, Seattle, WA 98119

www.hollandamerica.com 

 

[iflyrc5]

Here is the message I received from the HAL office of the President.

 

Thank you for contacting Mr. Brett Swofford Mr. Swofford has reviewed your feedback and asked me to respond on his behalf.

 

We appreciate your outreach about religious services and chaplains on our ships and for sharing your concerns. We have recently reviewed our programming and made the decision to

prioritize spiritual care for our longer cruises, for cruises where guests are further away from home, and for cruises over religious holidays.

 

We will continue to have a priest on board to provide daily mass for all trans-ocean crossings, and cruises to Hawaii, the Panama Canal, Asia, South America, Australia, and New Zealand.

On Grand and Legendary Voyages, services will be held by a Catholic Priest, Protestant Minister, and Jewish Rabbi. On Christmas and Easter, both a Catholic Priest and Protestant Minister will lead services on all ships, and on Holiday Cruises over Hannukah, a Jewish Rabbi or Cantor will lead services on our cruises. For all other cruises, to serve the spiritual needs of our guests, we provide congregation-led interdenominational services on Sunday mornings and congregation-led Jewish Shabatt services on Friday evenings. Your comments are welcome, and we will certainly incorporate them into our planning processes. We do appreciate your input regarding this important aspect of our shipboard schedule, and again, we sincerely apologize for your dissatisfaction.

 

Thank you once more for contacting Mr. Swofford. Feedback from our Mariners is vital in our mission to create once-in-a-lifetime experiences, every time, and we hope to share many more voyages with you.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bella Smith

Special Advisor
Office of the President

 

[whogo]

Holland America Line may lose a few cruisers, but will probably make more money from an additional Tanzanite or insole salesperson. I would bet that Roman Catholic passengers and crew will adapt to survive on Holland America as they do on Royal Caribbean, Seabourn, Silversea, Viking, Windstar, Azamara, Carnival, Viking, Celebrity, Disney, Norwegian, Ponant, Regent, Princess, Cunard and Hurtigruten.

[jlawrence01]

10 minutes ago, whogo said:

Holland America Line may lose a few cruisers, but will probably make more money from an additional Tanzanite or insole salesperson. I would bet that Roman Catholic passengers and crew will adapt to survive on Holland America as they do on Royal Caribbean, Seabourn, Silversea, Viking, Windstar, Azamara, Carnival, Viking, Celebrity, Disney, Norwegian, Ponant, Regent, Princess, Cunard and Hurtigruten.

 

That is a point that needs to be made.  HAL has been the only major cruise line that has offered religious services long after they have been discontinued on other lines.

 

Nothing was said when Royal Caribbean eliminated chapels when they modernize their ships 

[KAKcruiser]

Maybe HAL will find out that many people booked with them because of the Catholic Priest being available.  Now they might not have a reason to stick with them and can book with those other cruise lines.

[Khlela]

I truly think this will have zero impact on their ability to fill ships. I feels for the Catholics upset about this. But keep in mind there is a significant amount of faiths that have ZERO representation or support. Those that no longer want to be with HAL, that's ok but my understanding is that most other cruise lines don't offer it as well. So essentially it's, find a way to accept that mass won't be offered or just not cruise anymore. 

The ships get sold out and people wait and hope for openings. Any Catholics who know longer go will just have those rooms filled with others. So I wouldn't hold my breathe on these emails or any kind of sales impact changing their mind here. If they do, fantastic and more power to you, but I won't expect it. 

[Himself]

Catholics are bound under pain of Mortal sin to assist at Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of obligation.  The Catholic religion is the hardest religion to live in but th\e easist to die in.  We all die.  

[whogo]

17 minutes ago, Himself said:

Catholics are bound under pain of Mortal sin to assist at Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of obligation.  The Catholic religion is the hardest religion to live in but th\e easist to die in.  We all die.  

It's much easier to be a lapsed Unitarian. I will have no trouble dying at all.

[Khlela]

2 hours ago, Himself said:

Catholics are bound under pain of Mortal sin to assist at Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of obligation.  The Catholic religion is the hardest religion to live in but th\e easist to die in.  We all die.  

Isn’t that the truth!

 

You are exempt if no priest is available so this shouldn’t be that much of a concern. I fully agree though. I was raised in the Catholic Church. However I left once I became an adult. It didn’t align with my morals and beliefs. So I do sympathize but feel people are kidding themselves if they think there is any way HAL would lose enough passengers from this decision to undo it. I feel like they are significantly overestimating the number of devout Catholic passengers that cruise with HAL. 

[Sea42]

4 minutes ago, Khlela said:

Isn’t that the truth!

 

You are exempt if no priest is available so this shouldn’t be that much of a concern. I fully agree though. I was raised in the Catholic Church. However I left once I became an adult. It didn’t align with my morals and beliefs. So I do sympathize but feel people are kidding themselves if they think there is any way HAL would lose enough passengers from this decision to undo it. I feel like they are significantly overestimating the number of devout Catholic passengers that cruise with HAL. 

I agree. I received a survey from HAL quite awhile ago that had religious services as a part of a ranking type question. Perhaps this is partly in response to that kind of feedback. 

[RuthC]

4 hours ago, KAKcruiser said:

Maybe HAL will find out that many people booked with them because of the Catholic Priest being available.  Now they might not have a reason to stick with them and can book with those other cruise lines.

Some definitely will at minimum cut back on HAL and look at other lines. Others will be willing to miss a week or two, but cut out the longer cruises that HAL is now focusing on. 

Friends who just disembarked the entire World Cruise (not their first), and are embarking another long cruise shortly, just canceled a 70-day cruise for the sole reason that HAL has cut priests from the entertainment staff (that always cracked me up that the priests are entertainment) except for longer cruises. 
I expect 70 days would be considered a 'long' cruise so would have a priest, but this sure looks like a protest. 

[oakridger]

What other cruise lines currently have a Catholic Priest onboard for all cruises?

 

 

~Nancy

[CruiserBruce]

37 minutes ago, RuthC said:

Some definitely will at minimum cut back on HAL and look at other lines. Others will be willing to miss a week or two, but cut out the longer cruises that HAL is now focusing on. 

Friends who just disembarked the entire World Cruise (not their first), and are embarking another long cruise shortly, just canceled a 70-day cruise for the sole reason that HAL has cut priests from the entertainment staff (that always cracked me up that the priests are entertainment) except for longer cruises. 
I expect 70 days would be considered a 'long' cruise so would have a priest, but this sure looks like a protest. 

Seems like cutting off one's nose to spite their face. I mean, it's not like there are many other cruise lines that meet that particular demand. 

 

Definitely a protest...one with little leverage. 

[RuthC]

58 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Seems like cutting off one's nose to spite their face. I mean, it's not like there are many other cruise lines that meet that particular demand. 

 

Definitely a protest...one with little leverage. 

Well, it does cost more to recruit a new passenger than it does to retain an existing one. 
That has to be figured in the cost of the program, too. 

That particular couple sails a lot of days per year, so will cost a lot to be replaced. 

[TiogaCruiser]

24 minutes ago, RuthC said:

Well, it does cost more to recruit a new passenger than it does to retain an existing one. 
That has to be figured in the cost of the program, too. 

That particular couple sails a lot of days per year, so will cost a lot to be replaced. 

Yet aren’t we hearing that it’s the newer cruisers who are buying the add ons: photo packages, excursions, jewelry and other “deal du jour” items that more experienced cruisers don’t as much?

[Petronillus]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:53 AM, VMax1700 said:

Probably another supply chain problem! 

I know the local diocese has had to drastically reduce the availablility of masses and I am sure it is a world wide problem with the fall in vocations.

This policy change is news to me, after a brief hiatus from CC. 

Granted, the number of priests in service in many/most regions of the world is declining precipitously. But for retired priests, who are relieved of the day-to-day responsibilities of ministering to a parish, I would think serving on a cruise ship would be an attractive opportunity. I think the far more likely explanation is that, as with the LCS musicians, the bean counters have downgraded the value of providing free room and board to a single-occupancy (and single-purpose) passenger.

I am confident that stories abound of how the pastoral care of onboard chaplains has consisted of more than just spending a half-hour per day saying Mass. Does management know these stories or care?

I have always considered the presence of a Catholic priest onboard to be a competitive advantage of which HAL deserved to be proud. Maybe it's time for DW & me to try X.

[Petronillus]

On 6/4/2024 at 9:39 AM, whogo said:

Holland America Line may lose a few cruisers, but will probably make more money from an additional Tanzanite or insole salesperson. I would bet that Roman Catholic passengers and crew will adapt to survive on Holland America as they do on Royal Caribbean, Seabourn, Silversea, Viking, Windstar, Azamara, Carnival, Viking, Celebrity, Disney, Norwegian, Ponant, Regent, Princess, Cunard and Hurtigruten.

Nonetheless, precisely because the other cruise lines don't do it, up to now providing a Catholic priest onboard gave HAL a competitive edge, which a segment of the pax population appreciated. It figured large in our loyalty and its removal will have consequences.

[no1talks]

There are options for observant Catholics who are cruise enthusiasts. The question is: How motivated are those Catholics when the easiest option, that of having a priest always provided by the cruise line, is taken off the table?
 

• Use the regular cruise lines only for cruises when a priest is still being brought on board.
• Sail with Catholic travel groups on religious tourism cruises, which have a priest or deacon.
• Choose 7-day cruises that begin and end in ports where you can attend Mass by arriving a day early or staying a day late.
• Choose longer cruises with Sunday ports wherein Mass attendance is a viable option. (US military bases may be a way to go, but arraignments in advance are in order.)
• If there will be an opportunity for Mass in port, but there will also be a good reason it won't work out, see your priest about a dispensation. From the Code of Canon Law: "Without prejudice to the right of diocesan bishops in canon 87, a parish priest, in individual cases, for a just reason and in accordance with the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop (my emphasis), can give a dispensation from the obligation of observing a holy day or day of penance, or commute the obligation into some other pious works (can. 1245)."
• If, for some good reason, you have still chosen a cruise that doesn't even have one Sunday in a port where you could make a good-faith attempt at Mass attendance, the Code of Canon Law speaks to this as well: "If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the liturgy of the word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families (can. 1248.2)." My personal observation: It should not be overlooked that the use of the phrase, "grave cause," may imply that the cruiser(s) should have actually made an effort to plan for Mass and not just "hand-wave" themselves out of their obligation.
  
  Individuals will have to decide for themselves how much due diligence they wish to put into remaining an observant Catholic while cruising. Pax vobiscum!

Edited June 14 by no1talks