Why restructured loyalty program?

[39august]

Does anyone have a clue why X restructured the cross-over loyalty status recently? This seems nothing but a give away program for Pinnacles to Zenith. We were so happy to see a huge difference in perks! This makes our future cruises much less expensive. And gives some added perks as well, like anytime boarding time and waived room service charge. Just FYI, we have not sailed RCI since our first X cruise on Silhoutte Dec. 2016.

[leaveitallbehind]

@39august, one of the reasons I can think of is to offer more symmetry in the reciprocity.  Perhaps those with higher tiers felt as though they were giving up some perk benefits when cruising on the other since prior to the change, the tier reciprocity for each was capped at Diamond and Elite, regardless of actual higher tier status achieved with their primary line.

 

I realize the benefits are different with each line, but perhaps being able to share in the comparable level was seen as beneficial by the cruise lines to remain more attractive to each other's clientele.

 

In other words, maybe also it will provide more of an incentive for cruisers with each to cruise with the other.  A way to keep it all in the "family".  I also know this has been in the works between the two lines for some time.

 

From a personal standpoint, we primarily cruise Celebrity in recent years, but our tier level was earned through RCCL. (Although we will be Elite on our own merit after our June cruise). Providing for us to now enjoy the Elite+ benefits when on Celebrity is seen by us as an improvement.  We still cruise RCCL occasionally, but it is nice to have equal reciprocity when cruising Celebrity.  I think those who are Elite+ will also enjoy what is at that level, the better perks as Diamond + should they cruise with RCCL.

Edited June 17 by leaveitallbehind

[cruisestitch]

28 minutes ago, 39august said:

Does anyone have a clue why X restructured the cross-over loyalty status recently?  Long time passenger request

 

[39august]

If in response to pax requests, that is a big plus for listening to your base. . I also have given some thought to encouraging cross over bookings. But the ships sail full now...

[leaveitallbehind]

34 minutes ago, 39august said:

I also have given some thought to encouraging cross over bookings. But the ships sail full now...

Sailing full wouldn't make a difference. Not all cruisers only cruise on one line - many cruisers cruise multiple lines.  Unless you book late in the process there are always staterooms available and the stateroom you are not booking on one line would be available for someone else.  As mentioned we typically primarily cruise with Celebrity, but we still from time to time cruise RCCL.  We have never had any issue with stateroom availability with either line.

 

BTW with the exception of the interruption from the pandemic, ships typically have always sailed full. Its good to see what looks like a full industry recovery from that.

Edited June 17 by leaveitallbehind

[George C]

They always had a crossover feature, my first cruise on Celebrity I was elite because of my diamond status , now they just expanded to include the upper levels . 

[DaKahuna]

 I will go on record and say that I wish they had never changed it.  The old program worked just fine and cruisers had to earn the highest statuses by sailing on the cruise line.  

[c-leg5]

@39august Probably a realization that the tiers on both lines have evolved over the years since the initial tier matching, with many cruisers now attaining Pinnacle and a smaller number, Zenith due in part to the much smaller cruise line,with less opportunities regarding ships and itineraries.  
 

The disparity between the benefits offered previously on both lines due the previous cap was so large it presented little incentive for top tier cruisers to try the other cruise line. It was similar to choosing to sail on another cruise line which was not “in-house”. Now there is more incentive for those who may have looked elsewhere to stay within the group. You had already changed over regardless of the lack of reciprocal benefits so whilst you will benefit now I don’t think  you were the target audience.
 

Whilst the extra benefits are obviously welcome, I don’t share the enthusiasm with regards to “savings”, which are only attained IF you would have purchased those items anyway For the most part, we wouldn’t have purchased them so I just see them as a bonus.

 

Pinnacles seem to be particularly pleased with the new offerings “on paper”.  I don’t see the same enthusiasm amongst other Royal tiers, the Celebrity boards in general and certainly not the Silversea cruisers.

 

Glad you are happy with the changes. Who knows what the ulterior motive, or plans are down the road? This may just be a honeymoon phase - no one really knows and perhaps best to just enjoy it while it lasts.

 

2 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

@39august, one of the reasons I can think of is to offer more symmetry in the reciprocity.  Perhaps those with higher tiers felt as though they were giving up some perk benefits when cruising on the other since prior to the change, the tier reciprocity for each was capped at Diamond and Elite, regardless of actual higher tier status achieved with their primary line.

 

 

.

+1

 

 

[leaveitallbehind]

18 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

The old program worked just fine and cruisers had to earn the highest statuses by sailing on the cruise line.  

You still do.  In order to share, as example, Diamond+ with Elite+ benefits, you need to have reached at least one of them on your own cruise point merits.  I share Celebrity Elite+ benefits because I earned Diamond+ on RCCL. 

 

Not sure I see what difference it makes from before when with the same RCCL tier level I could only share Elite benefits.  I still earned that right based on my RCCL earned tier of Diamond+.  The only difference is now there is tier parity. 

Edited June 17 by leaveitallbehind

[leaveitallbehind]

10 minutes ago, c-leg5 said:

Pinnacles seem to be particularly pleased with the new offerings “on paper”.  I don’t see the same enthusiasm amongst other Royal tiers, the Celebrity boards in general and certainly not the Silversea cruisers.

 

Glad you are happy with the changes.

I am happy in the sense that since I now prefer Celebrity, I can enjoy improved Celebrity benefits that, although not as robust as RCCL at that level, are more in line based on the parity between my earned tier and the reciprocal tier.  Prior to the change, the reciprocity was at a lower level.  That's all.

 

I think, specifically at the Elite and Elite+ tiers, Celebrity cruisers who sail with RCCL will enjoy the stronger tier level benefits offered by RCCL.

 

But clearly those who are Pinnacle with RCCL will benefit greater with the Zenith tier reciprocity than visa versa.

Edited June 17 by leaveitallbehind

[TommyD3]

I have been Zenith since before they created the program. The Zeniths are NOT happy with the new reciprocity program. Royal has exempted most of the benefits when a Zenith sails on Royal. Every benefit that mid level Diamond Plus get (340+ points) has been exempted for Celebrity crossovers. This includes the upgraded bath products and officer lunch. Pinnacles make out like bandits on Celebrity. Unlimited drinks, WiFi and laundry. They are also included in the Zenith lunch. At the lunch just a few days after the changes took affect there were 6 Pinnacles and 7 Zeniths at the lunch. I am sure that on Celebrity TA cruises this fall there will be maybe 30 Zeniths and 100+ Pinnacles. Will be interesting if they include reserved seats for the Pinnacles (like they do for the Zeniths) at the Captain's Club Celebration. On Edge class ships they would have to reserve EVERY seat in Eden !!!

[mahasamatman]

It's funny how people in each of the programs are overreacting that their favourite cruise line is giving away the crown jewels and will be totally destroyed by the status match program. It's especially bad over in the Silversea forum.

[phoenix_dream]

15 minutes ago, mahasamatman said:

It's funny how people in each of the programs are overreacting that their favourite cruise line is giving away the crown jewels and will be totally destroyed by the status match program. It's especially bad over in the Silversea forum.

It's your opinion that many of us are overreacting.  The reality is that giving Pinnacles the same benefits we earned through a lot more $$ spend in Zenith (in most cases) will ultimately definitely impact us in negative ways like ruining the Zenith lunch on many cruises. It will also very likely adversely impact the enjoyment of the Retreat lounge due to overcrowding (which has already been reported) and very likely,  over time, result in mgmt reducing the benefits as the costs will not be sustainable.  If our upset with this is overreacting by your definition let's just say we can agree to disagree. 

[tfred]

1 hour ago, phoenix_dream said:

It's your opinion that many of us are overreacting.  The reality is that giving Pinnacles the same benefits we earned through a lot more $$ spend in Zenith (in most cases) will ultimately definitely impact us in negative ways like ruining the Zenith lunch on many cruises. It will also very likely adversely impact the enjoyment of the Retreat lounge due to overcrowding (which has already been reported) and very likely,  over time, result in mgmt reducing the benefits as the costs will not be sustainable.  If our upset with this is overreacting by your definition let's just say we can agree to disagree. 

How would they be ruining the Z lunch with just more people?

 

retreat lounge is technically off limits to crossovers but that has to be enforced 

 

the cost of the program has to be measured against the cost of existing pax drifting to non RCG lines. Time will tell. 
 

my concern (as in airline clubs) is over crowding with the DYKWIA crowd bulldozing their way into a small venue. 

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, phoenix_dream said:

...The reality is that giving Pinnacles the same benefits we earned through a lot more $$ spend in Zenith (in most cases) will ultimately definitely impact us in negative ways like ruining the Zenith lunch on many cruises. It will also very likely adversely impact the enjoyment of the Retreat lounge due to overcrowding...

I am not criticizing your view, as it is as valid as anyone's.  But I don't think that suddenly because of this change that hordes of Pinnacles are going to start swarming Celebrity ships in droves simply to take advantage of the drink package, or wifi, or the lunch, or any other benefit you fear is now in jeopardy. They will likely cruise Celebrity for the experience.  And more than likely they have been doing so already for years prior to this change.  Speaking for ourselves, although we're not Pinnacle, we certainly have.

 

First of all, Pinnacles, just as yourself, are people. They, just as yourselves, are avid cruisers who have invested a lot of time and money enjoying cruising and who, as a result, have earned the same loyalty tier level with RCCL as those cruisers who, with Celebrity, have earned Zenith in the same manner.  Just because they did so with a different cruise line than yours doesn't mean they are of a different caliber of cruising individual that is somehow going to lessen the quality of cruising for others by joining them on the same ships.  Chances are you won't even know who they are unless you ask.  They certainly won't look any different and I doubt they will act any different.

 

As mentioned on other similar threads, we have been cruising for 32 years, with 50+ cruises in a mix of both RCCL and Celebrity. Although our D+ tier level was earned through RCCL, we also have a earned Elite on Celebrity. Frankly, we're underwhelmed with the loyalty benefits provided by Celebrity for us.  I guess now with our parity to Elite+ that will improve somewhat.  But the reciprocal benefits have nothing to do with our choice to cruise with Celebrity. Maybe if we ever reach Pinnacle we will celebrate quietly on Celebrity with a drink from our included drink package. Who knows? But we promise not to ruin the Zenith lunch.

Edited June 18 by leaveitallbehind

[verizon]

9 hours ago, TommyD3 said:

I have been Zenith since before they created the program. The Zeniths are NOT happy with the new reciprocity program. Royal has exempted most of the benefits when a Zenith sails on Royal. Every benefit that mid level Diamond Plus get (340+ points) has been exempted for Celebrity crossovers. This includes the upgraded bath products and officer lunch. Pinnacles make out like bandits on Celebrity. Unlimited drinks, WiFi and laundry. They are also included in the Zenith lunch. At the lunch just a few days after the changes took affect there were 6 Pinnacles and 7 Zeniths at the lunch. I am sure that on Celebrity TA cruises this fall there will be maybe 30 Zeniths and 100+ Pinnacles. Will be interesting if they include reserved seats for the Pinnacles (like they do for the Zeniths) at the Captain's Club Celebration. On Edge class ships they would have to reserve EVERY seat in Eden !!!

Hi Tom,It is time for us to move on if Celebrity don't get our feeling.This matching is ONE SIDED

Stop the nonsense, even a three year old knows it is way far of a fair deal.

Not only the Pinnacles are coming,In the near future there will be more Diamond+ becomes Pinnacles are coming too.

Its won't make Zeniths unhappy with the crowded Retreat Lounge.What really make guests unhappy are those high paying suite guests with the crowded lounge.

What are they thinking ?

Edited June 18 by verizon

[verizon]

For Diamond + they just easily walk to the entrances of Zeniths door but for Elite + there are still a lot ot stairs to climb to Zenith.

[the penguins]

12 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

@39august, one of the reasons I can think of is to offer more symmetry in the reciprocity.  Perhaps those with higher tiers felt as though they were giving up some perk benefits when cruising on the other since prior to the change, the tier reciprocity for each was capped at Diamond and Elite, regardless of actual higher tier status achieved with their primary line.

 

I realize the benefits are different with each line, but perhaps being able to share in the comparable level was seen as beneficial by the cruise lines to remain more attractive to each other's clientele.

 

In other words, maybe also it will provide more of an incentive for cruisers with each to cruise with the other.  A way to keep it all in the "family".  I also know this has been in the works between the two lines for some time.

 

From a personal standpoint, we primarily cruise Celebrity in recent years, but our tier level was earned through RCCL. (Although we will be Elite on our own merit after our June cruise). Providing for us to now enjoy the Elite+ benefits when on Celebrity is seen by us as an improvement.  We still cruise RCCL occasionally, but it is nice to have equal reciprocity when cruising Celebrity.  I think those who are Elite+ will also enjoy what is at that level, the better perks as Diamond + should they cruise with RCCL.

Diamond+ perks better than Elite+?

That depends on your drinking habits and WIFI usage/cruise length.

drinks: We don't drink any alcohol and the Elite+ benefit of unlimited speciality coffees (Hot and Iced), speciality teas and hot chocolate is way above the 5 drinks I would get on Royal. Plus on Royal any Sodas/water would come out of my 5 drink allowance whereas on X I can get enough of these free to last the next 24 hours. Celebrity Wins

WIFI: we cruise for a minimum of 12 days. Royal gives us 4 days wifi leaving us for 8 days with zero. X's 240 minutes each can easily be spread over a 12 or 14 night cruise - prepare off line, log on and send, log out, read messages off line. If that doesn't work share the first lot of 240 minutes then decide if the other 240 will last for the balance of the cruise if not use it as a discount on a full package for the rest of the trip. Celebrity Wins

[ChucktownSteve]

I see this program as a way to move the RCL pax to Celebrity and the Celebrity cruiser to Silversea.  The up sell not only fills the higher priced ships but opens up the entry level ships at RCL.

 

It's a lot easier to achieve Elite and Elite+ by sailing a few suites B2B with the points multiplier for upper level suites equivalent to Silversea prices. Compound that with the non cruising power up points added during and since the pandemic without sailing.

 

Now consider how much the SS pax actually spent reaching the 350 DAY Venetian Society level which is equivalent to Elite+ at lower pp/pn rates. Taking a plucked from air pp/pn rate of only $500 for the 350 days would equate to $175,000. At double occupancy it's $350,000.

 

That's quite attractive for the Celebrity cruiser to move up to the Luxury Silversea ships. However those ships are substantially smaller and thus will fill faster.  Guess what that does to the suite pricing?  The same will begin occurring on Celebrity when the RCL pax moves up.

 

This really is about raising rates not the minimal perks they dole out which are already built into the price of the cruise.

 

 

 

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, verizon said:

For Diamond + they just easily walk to the entrances of Zeniths door but for Elite + there are still a lot ot stairs to climb to Zenith.

Huh? Not so. Diamond+ can't become Zenith unless they earn all the points on Celebrity from ground zero to become Zenith. They can only become Pinnacle, and can only do so by earning the points to Pinnacle with RCCL. And there are still a lot of stairs to climb from D+ to Pinnacle. (525 nights at sea in a standard stateroom, or 75 - 7 night cruises to be exact, between D+ and Pinnacle)  Then they share the reciprocal benefits of Zenith when sailing on Celebrity. 

Edited June 18 by leaveitallbehind

[verizon]

If D+ to Pinnacle= 525 nights

for Elite+ to Zenith = 750 nights in regular cabins

Don't forget the cruise prices are higher  on Celebrity when you look at the prices  on the same regular cabins 

Edited June 18 by verizon

[Tom and Ingrid]

16 hours ago, 39august said:

Does anyone have a clue why X restructured the cross-over loyalty status recently?

My guess, as mentioned by others, is parity across their brands.

 

For us specifically, without a "good reason" to try a Royal or Silversea (or TUI, I guess), I'm just as likely to go away from X to try Cunard, Princess, MSC, Virgin or ..., well any line - especially if they have a match or I get a great deal or some other perk.  MSC and Virgin match X, so why wouldn't I give them a whirl all things equal?  

 

Loyalty programs are a bit broken these days across all travel industries (and even non-travel).  It's a bit of a hustle staying on top and also noticing "erosion" of benefits.  I've been burning some airplane mileage points as those devalue fast these days, and while I'm happy with X overall, I don't know how they keep pace with a burgeoning elite, elite+, & zenith class on-board without cutting benefits or adding another tier above zenith or adding other levels into the mix.

[leaveitallbehind]

18 hours ago, 39august said:

Does anyone have a clue why X restructured the cross-over loyalty status recently? 

I don't think it was exclusively Celebrity that did this. Keep in mind the parity also is with, and affected similarly with, RCCL  It was a joint adjustment between RCCL and Celebrity, most likely driven by a decision from the parent company of both lines, Royal Caribbean Group, as it also touches Silversea.

Edited June 18 by leaveitallbehind

[BP99]

4 hours ago, the penguins said:

Diamond+ perks better than Elite+?

That depends on your drinking habits and WIFI usage/cruise length.

drinks: We don't drink any alcohol and the Elite+ benefit of unlimited speciality coffees (Hot and Iced), speciality teas and hot chocolate is way above the 5 drinks I would get on Royal. Plus on Royal any Sodas/water would come out of my 5 drink allowance whereas on X I can get enough of these free to last the next 24 hours. Celebrity Wins

WIFI: we cruise for a minimum of 12 days. Royal gives us 4 days wifi leaving us for 8 days with zero. X's 240 minutes each can easily be spread over a 12 or 14 night cruise - prepare off line, log on and send, log out, read messages off line. If that doesn't work share the first lot of 240 minutes then decide if the other 240 will last for the balance of the cruise if not use it as a discount on a full package for the rest of the trip. Celebrity Wins

Hi,

I think I mentioned this many times.

As for Diamond plus drink perks:

We can have these anytime (not restricted to 5-7pm on Celebrity) and anywhere (ie pool, supper etc) unlike Celebrity (only a bar or during HH).

RCL WINS!

As for HH. Royal has OUTSTANDING food with multiple

tablea of hot and cold YUMMIES! in the Diamond Club

AS for Celebrity HH a very few waiters serving stale cheese

on stale crackers- Usually your lucky when they get to

you in the HH venue.

RCL. Wins!

I'll agree with you on free WIFI. Celebrity wins!

 

[leaveitallbehind]

4 hours ago, verizon said:

If D+ to Pinnacle= 525 nights

for Elite+ to Zenith = 750 nights in regular cabins

Don't forget the cruise prices are higher  on Celebrity when you look at the prices  on the same regular cabins 

I was mainly reacting you what I interpreted as your comment indicating that D+ can reach Zenith - which they can't unless they earn those points independently - and that they "easily walk to the entrances of Zenith's door".  I don't think having to complete at least 75 cruises with RCCL to reach Pinnacle from D+ is an "easy walk". 

 

I realize that the point systems are different and that it may take longer for an E+ to reach Zenith.  And depending on category, such as Concierge or Aqua, it can take significantly less cruises. But both tier levels are quite hard to reach by way of non-suite staterooms.  And BTW, RCCL also scales their non-suite staterooms with different pricing levels but does not scale the points with the categories.  All non-suite staterooms are at the same point level, regardless of category.  (As are all suite categories at the same point level).  

 

I also think the amount paid per category is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about parity in tier level reciprocity with the recent realignment.  Not about how much it cost to get there.

 

Lastly, I don't understand the "we versus they" mentality of much of the discussion.  We are not "loyalty tiers", but rather are all cruising people who have invested a lot of time and money with the different cruise lines, many of us who have sailed both extensively over the years. 

 

IMO opinion having parity in tier reciprocity is rather benign and similar to both lines and should not define who we are a cruisers. It also is certainly not what drives me to Celebrity. Many of us cruise just for the enjoyment of both lines for different reasons at different times, and have done so for many years.  I am, and have been, as much a Celebrity person as I am an RCCL person. JMO.

Edited June 18 by leaveitallbehind