Snobbery on cruise lines?

[K32682]

2 hours ago, clo said:

But if a cruise line said "formal" then I would assume they mean more than Dockers and a collared golf shirt.

 

The probably do mean that but most make it a "recommendation" instead of a "requirement" meaning fancy pants dress is entirely optional. Dockers and a collared shirt won't get you turned away at the door.

[CPT Trips]

6 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Met farmers on a few cruises too.

Do they grow classical music?🤦🏻‍♂️😎

[clo]

10 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

Do they grow classical music?🤦🏻‍♂️😎

That, IMO, smacks just a tad of snobbery!

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, clo said:

But if a cruise line said "formal" then I would assume they mean more than Dockers and a collared golf shirt.

 

I think you ask a very good question.  What would you assume it means?  A tuxedo?  Flowing gowns? 

 

As it has over the years, I guess what is accepted as "formal" has changed.  We have been on Princess a lot over the past few years.  The vast majority of folks are doing what you describe as country club casual on "formal night".   Times have changed it seems.   

Edited July 20 by ldubs

[CPT Trips]

12 minutes ago, clo said:

That, IMO, smacks just a tad of snobbery!

[Hlitner]

16 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

What would you assume it means?  A tuxedo?  Flowing gowns? 

 

As it has over the years, I guess what is accepted as "formal" has changed.  We have been on Princess a lot over the past few years.  The vast majority of folks are doing what you describe as country club casual on "formal night".   Times have changed it seems.   

 

 

 

 

I think what should be clear is that having a dress code and/or dressing to the nines is about "class" and not snobbery.  That being said, over the past 2-3 decades, true formal dress on many cruise lines, especially the mass market lines, has truly waned.  "Formal" on Princess is formal in name only.  But on lines like Cunard (especially in the Princess/Queens Grills) and Silversea, formal is close to real formal with Black Tie and dark suits the usual dress for men.  Seabourn also has formal nights, but while jacket or jacket/tie are normal, true formal has been declining.  On our last two Seabourn cruises, I did not bother taking along my real formal wear and just made do with a nice blazer.  

 

But I doubt if anyone aboard would equate dressing nice with being a snob.  Nothing wrong with folks wanting to look their best.  Even on Seabourn, one could ignore the formal dress code and just wear smart-casual.  However, on the formal nights they would not be able to dine in the Restaurant.

 

Hank

[ldubs]

20 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

 

 

 

I think what should be clear is that having a dress code and/or dressing to the nines is about "class" and not snobbery.  

 

Hank

 

I agree if by class we mean style or elegance.   A classy person isn't snobbish.  A snobbish person isn't classy.  When it comes to fashion, those who make a point of looking down their nose with contempt at what others wear are not being about class.  

 

  

Edited July 20 by ldubs

[jsn55]

3 hours ago, Lois R said:

Have no fear....I love sailing on the smaller ships and am just a regular person.....snobbery is not for me either.

Love this, Lois!  Made my evening.  You sound like someone I'd love to cruise with!!

[jsn55]

4 hours ago, kochleffel said:

 

I have an Emily Post etiquette book from about 1922 in which she explains painstakingly that black tie (tuxedo) is informal. Then, formal meant white tie and tails.

OMG, that's RIGHT!  So happy to never have had to deal with any of that.  Thanks for the chuckle.

[clo]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

What would you assume it means?  A tuxedo?  Flowing gowns? 

 

As it has over the years, I guess what is accepted as "formal" has changed.  We have been on Princess a lot over the past few years.  The vast majority of folks are doing what you describe as country club casual on "formal night".   Times have changed it seems.   

Then why call it "formal" or if they're going to call it "formal" then they should notify passengers in advance .

[clo]

3 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

Who? Me?

[ldubs]

15 minutes ago, clo said:

Then why call it "formal" or if they're going to call it "formal" then they should notify passengers in advance .

 

Clo, To answer your question, Princess does define it as tux/suit, gown/cocktail dress.  It clearly is not popular with the majority of customers as most do not follow the guideline. That should make it obvious why they don't try to enforce the guideline.  It is not quite as clear why they haven't updated it to reflect current more casual trends.   

[MBP&O2/O]

52 minutes ago, ldubs said:

It is not quite as clear why they haven't updated it to reflect current more casual trends.   

Possibly because whatever 'code' they request, some people will try to 'push it to the limits' and dress below that standard? 

Personally, I will go 'formal' on Formal nights ... we both enjoy the chance to step up and it's no skin off my nose and a Tux weighs less than a suit 😄 

Equally, I will never wear a jacket without a tie .... I am an old fashioned sort of guy ... well old at least😏

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, kochleffel said:

 

I have an Emily Post etiquette book from about 1922 in which she explains painstakingly that black tie (tuxedo) is informal. Then, formal meant white tie and tails.

In other words, things change.

[K32682]

7 hours ago, clo said:

Then why call it "formal" or if they're going to call it "formal" then they should notify passengers in advance .

Princess and most other lines are quite specific about what is permitted in their dining rooms. Formal night however is a request not a requirement. Having formal nights but not enforcing the dress code satisfies both the people who want a "formal night" and those of us who can't be bothered. 

[Hlitner]

8 hours ago, clo said:

Then why call it "formal" or if they're going to call it "formal" then they should notify passengers in advance .

All the cruise lines, upon which we have cruised, do notify customers (pre-cruise) of the dress codes.  I think it is Princess, that has it in their pre-cruise info (e-mailed to customers) which does specify the number of "formal" nights.  In their FAQs they clearly delineate their dress code and the number of "Formal Evenings" for the various lengths of the cruise.  

 

The fact that various cruisers choose to ignore the published dress codes is not the fault of the cruise line.  As to enforcement, it does happen on some lines (Cunard, Seabourn, Silversea, etc) while other cruise lines seldom do any kind of enforcement.

 

Hank

[zqvol]

10 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Possibly because whatever 'code' they request, some people will try to 'push it to the limits' and dress below that standard? 

Personally, I will go 'formal' on Formal nights ... we both enjoy the chance to step up and it's no skin off my nose and a Tux weighs less than a suit 😄 

Equally, I will never wear a jacket without a tie .... I am an old fashioned sort of guy ... well old at least😏

It’s good we have choices. On formal night we choose to dine in the buffet, as we don’t want to fool with dressing up. 

[K32682]

6 minutes ago, zqvol said:

It’s good we have choices. On formal night we choose to dine in the buffet, as we don’t want to fool with dressing up. 

 

I dine in the MDR on fancy pants night. If the cruise line doesn't care enough about their "dress codes" to enforce them why should I? 

[ldubs]

12 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Possibly because whatever 'code' they request, some people will try to 'push it to the limits' and dress below that standard? 

Personally, I will go 'formal' on Formal nights ... we both enjoy the chance to step up and it's no skin off my nose and a Tux weighs less than a suit 😄 

Equally, I will never wear a jacket without a tie .... I am an old fashioned sort of guy ... well old at least😏

 

Enjoy! 

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

All the cruise lines, upon which we have cruised, do notify customers (pre-cruise) of the dress codes.  I think it is Princess, that has it in their pre-cruise info (e-mailed to customers) which does specify the number of "formal" nights.  In their FAQs they clearly delineate their dress code and the number of "Formal Evenings" for the various lengths of the cruise.  

 

The fact that various cruisers choose to ignore the published dress codes is not the fault of the cruise line.  As to enforcement, it does happen on some lines (Cunard, Seabourn, Silversea, etc) while other cruise lines seldom do any kind of enforcement.

 

Hank

 

Good points.  I do think it is the fault of the cruise lines that the published dress code is not updated to reflect the obvious preference of most customers.  Eight or 10 years ago Celebrity seemed to recognize this when they replaced formal night with the more trendy chic night.  And it was found that those who liked dressing in formal wear could co-exist peacefully with those dressed more casually.🙂  

 

I guess from my perspective, if the published dress code were wanted by paying customers the vast majority of them would be following it.  On many lines it is just the opposite.  It is a head scratcher to me.   

[Mary229]

Since the start up in 2022 I have the crew much less reticent about confrontation.  I attribute this to two factors 1. Many are novices and 2. Many more pax are much angrier and disgruntled 

Edited July 20 by Mary229

[clo]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Good points.  I do think it is the fault of the cruise lines that the published dress code is not updated to reflect the obvious preference of most customers.  Eight or 10 years ago Celebrity seemed to recognize this when they replaced formal night with the more trendy chic night.  And it was found that those who liked dressing in formal wear could co-exist peacefully with those dressed more casually.🙂  

 

I guess from my perspective, if the published dress code were wanted by paying customers the vast majority of them would be following it.  On many lines it is just the opposite.  It is a head scratcher to me.   

Well, I gotta say that if we ever again cruise on a line that has "formal nights," Bob will pull out his not-used-in-years tuxedo. (Our sons-in-laws wore light colored suits to their wedding so he couldn't out dress the grooms.) And I still have the long black skirt and tunic that I wore with vintage rhinestones that were my mother's. It would be fun. SO few occasions to get dolled up. And as someone wrote, a tux weighs less than a suit.

[Hlitner]

41 minutes ago, clo said:

Well, I gotta say that if we ever again cruise on a line that has "formal nights," Bob will pull out his not-used-in-years tuxedo. (Our sons-in-laws wore light colored suits to their wedding so he couldn't out dress the grooms.) And I still have the long black skirt and tunic that I wore with vintage rhinestones that were my mother's. It would be fun. SO few occasions to get dolled up. And as someone wrote, a tux weighs less than a suit.

I must admit, that like you Bob, I do find some enjoyment in putting on a tux.  Later this year we are taking our first Silversea cruise, and I might actually drag along all that formal wear to have some fun.   After more than 50 years of extensive cruising, I still recall one of our most memorable evenings, which happened on the long-gone Norway (previously the SS France).  That ship had an entertainment deck (I believe it was called the International Deck) that had a ship-length indoor promanade from which there were entrances to various lounges (with live entertainment). I recall late one night, looking down that long deck with its small twinking lights, one side lines with windows offering a sea view, and various types of music (from the crowded lounges) filtering out to the promanade.  DW and I had just walked out of one of the lounges, and just strolled this wide promenade knowing it was a very special evening.  Probably the most romantic few minutes, we have experienced on any cruise ship.  It was a formal night, and nearly all the men worse Tuxes or dark suits and the ladies were generally in long gowns.  

 

 

Hank

[clo]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I must admit, that like you Bob, I do find some enjoyment in putting on a tux.  Later this year we are taking our first Silversea cruise, and I might actually drag along all that formal wear to have some fun.   After more than 50 years of extensive cruising, I still recall one of our most memorable evenings, which happened on the long-gone Norway (previously the SS France).  That ship had an entertainment deck (I believe it was called the International Deck) that had a ship-length indoor promanade from which there were entrances to various lounges (with live entertainment). I recall late one night, looking down that long deck with its small twinking lights, one side lines with windows offering a sea view, and various types of music (from the crowded lounges) filtering out to the promanade.  DW and I had just walked out of one of the lounges, and just strolled this wide promenade knowing it was a very special evening.  Probably the most romantic few minutes, we have experienced on any cruise ship.  It was a formal night, and nearly all the men worse Tuxes or dark suits and the ladies were generally in long gowns.  

 

 

Hank

I love that. Thanks for sharing.

[ldubs]

14 hours ago, clo said:

Well, I gotta say that if we ever again cruise on a line that has "formal nights," Bob will pull out his not-used-in-years tuxedo. (Our sons-in-laws wore light colored suits to their wedding so he couldn't out dress the grooms.) And I still have the long black skirt and tunic that I wore with vintage rhinestones that were my mother's. It would be fun. SO few occasions to get dolled up. And as someone wrote, a tux weighs less than a suit.

 

Enjoy! 

 

Tunic is a term I don't hear very often!  I had to look it up to discover it is now descriptive of a long shirt (I suppose "top" in your case). Clearly, I'm out of touch with the fashion world.  haha.