HAL pulling out of NY--other lines expanding

[Boytjie]

[quote name='mudscraper']Hi Peter. A forum search of past posts on this forum reveals four pages of it`s usage. The Carnival forum has eleven pages as another example. Not all posts were derogatory but the word was used. Some folks happily refered to themselves as rednecks as they were from the south.[/quote]

And the last time that term was used on a HAL thread (before you brought it up now) is April 10, 2011. Hardly rampant usage. ;)

[Himself]

[quote name='Love the beach']Re this article in NY's Daily News yesterday (please scroll down to read the article)
[URL]https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/york-city-cruise-industry-grows-10-2011-economic-impact-239-million-article-1.1038056[/URL]

--it seems other cruiselines are expanding their itineraries out of NY and we all know HAL is ending the Bermuda run after this season---go figure!
Are you listening HAL??
We would love to see more HAL ships (or even one!) in NY for the future.[/QUOTE]

Without being offensive to anyone but personally I would much rather sail out of South Florida.

[serendipity1499]

[quote name='mudscraper']On a more serious note the term REDNECK gets thrown around on this and other boards on a regular basis without criticism. The white southerner is fair game. (Had a bunch of rednecks on our cruise... People acting like rednecks...). We`ve read comments like this before.[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]So are you saying that the use of Redneck is OK ?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]IMO it's just as offensive as an underhanded slur about New Yorker's..[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]And to those who believe, I've lost my sense of humor, it's still there..[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I often wonder if posters would make fun of others ethnicities, as Justin so aptly put it, in person..[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I still believe that casting asperations about various ethnicities fail to be funny..[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Of course, that's just my opinion but I'm sticking to it![/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Betty[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Love the beach]

[quote name='Boatdrill']Confused...is the issue that HAL has dropped the Bermuda run, or that HAL will not be in NY more often on their itineraries ?

At least one HAL transatlantic in 2013 will come into NY, othewise Boston is the better port for Canada/New England routes.[/quote]


My point was that in light of the NY port doing well--other lines are expanding their itineraries and bringing their new ships while HAL is pulling back on theirs.

[mudscraper]

[quote name='serendipity1499'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]So are you saying that the use of Redneck is OK ?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]IMO it's just as offensive as an underhanded slur about New Yorker's..[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]And to those who believe, I've lost my sense of humor, it's still there..[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I often wonder if posters would make fun of others ethnicities, as Justin so aptly put it, in person..[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I still believe that casting asperations about various ethnicities fail to be funny..[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Of course, that's just my opinion but I'm sticking to it![/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Betty[/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]
May I suggest that you re-read my post. I don`t say its OK. I`m saying it has been used in an offensive manner.

[mudscraper]

[quote name='Boytjie']And the last time that term was used on a HAL thread (before you brought it up now) is April 10, 2011. Hardly rampant usage. ;)[/quote]
Did I say it`s usage was rampant?

[V'sGirl]

:) Why don't we return to talking about how much we love cruising? :)

[Boytjie]

[quote name='mudscraper']Did I say it`s usage was rampant?[/quote]

Your original post:
[quote]On a more serious note the term REDNECK gets thrown around on this and other boards on a regular basis without criticism.[/quote]

We can quibble over "rampant" vs "regular basis" if you like... the point is you raised the issue of the usage of "redneck" without it even having been used on this thread! And then you posted about the lists returned by a search, which I pointed out had the most recent usage almost a year ago. So not that regular either.

So just why did you throw "redneck" meat out there?

[aaerobear]

I am a retired airline purser. I flew for 40 years. Of those 40 years, I was based in Minneapolis 9 years, Chicago 4 years, NEW YORK 9 years, Boston 8 years, and Detroit for 10 years. I can say that my time in NY and Boston were the best of times, I loved the passengers we flew all over the world and the "all over the world" passengers we flew there.

I love sailing out of NY and have done it 6 times, mostly with Princess but a couple times with Cunard. I think HAL is missing out on a great place to sail from, but it is probably some pencil pusher in Seattle that is causing it.

[serendipity1499]

[quote=V'sGirl;32891063]Back in my glory days, I was a flight attendant based in NYC. [COLOR=red]Being in the air with a couple hundred New Yorkers was not always a good thing either! (Sorry I'm off topic; just couldn't resist.):D[/quote][/COLOR]

[quote=V'sGirl;32914562]:) [COLOR=red]Why don't we return to talking about how much we love cruising? :)[/quote][/COLOR]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Oh Yes, I completely agree we should return to the topic of cruising..[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]However, I do believe that you & one or two others owe an apology to those you have insulted..[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Enough Said![/SIZE][/FONT]

[bepsf]

[quote name='djg541']HAL may be leaving due to excessively high fees,taxes and labor costs in port.
[/quote]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]Not likely - Otherwise the others would have gone too...[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]...as those fees are passed along to the passengers anyway.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]What it boils down to is that HAL is unable to directly compete with other lines and remain profitable.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[hypercafe]

Bepfs, you have hit the nail on the head. For whatever reason HAL can not make it in the NYC market as the rest can. I really don!t believe NCL, Cunard, Princess, X, RCCL, Carnival do this some all year long with their new ships just to throw money away. New Yorkers have nothing to do with it. HAL would fill the ship with men from Mars if they could make money. PS I love the two trips you have booked!

[serendipity1499]

[quote name='bepsf'][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]Not likely - Otherwise the others would have gone too...[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]...as those fees are passed along to the passengers anyway.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]What it boils down to is that HAL is unable to directly compete with other lines and remain profitable.[/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

[SIZE=3]Brian.. Is it possible that the others are using much larger ships in NYC which have all the bells & whistles wanted by families rather than the smaller ship HAL was using?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]We flew into JFK in 2008 & sailed the Veendam to Bermuda..It was the first time we accepted an upsell to a Lanai Cabin..Loved both Bermuda & our cabin, as well as the ship...It's sad to see that HAL is pulling out of NYC..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Realize, there are not too many places to sail to out of NYC but was hoping that HAL would decide to have another ship out of NYC to do the New England & Canada route..They could even do Bermuda, as well as go a bit south into Charleston & Yorktown as Oceania did..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Cheers...Betty[/SIZE]

[V'sGirl]

[quote name='serendipity1499'][/color]

[/color]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Oh Yes, I completely agree we should return to the topic of cruising..[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]However, I do believe that you & one or two others owe an apology to those you have insulted..[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Enough Said![/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]
I will be happy to apologize. I take full responsibilty for whatever hurt or anger I caused anyone. It never occured to me that the term "New Yorker" would be construed as an ethnic denigration, but I know that a perceived insult is hurtful whether it was intended or not. Therefore, I humbly apologize to anyone who was offended by anything that came from my postings.
Beth

[mamaofami]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Apology accepted.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Boytjie]

[quote=V'sGirl;32916269]I will be happy to apologize. I take full responsibilty for whatever hurt or anger I caused anyone. It never occured to me that the term "New Yorker" would be construed as an ethnic denigration, but I know that a perceived insult is hurtful whether it was intended or not. Therefore, I humbly apologize to anyone who was offended by anything that came from my postings.
Beth[/quote]


The term "New Yorker" is not what annoyed my - I am a proud New Yorker! - and it cannot possible be ethnic denigration as we have just about all ethnicities here. :D What was ascribed to New Yorkers was upsetting.

Apology accepted.

[mamaofami]

[quote name='Boytjie']The term "New Yorker" is not what annoyed my - I am a proud New Yorker! - and it cannot possible be ethnic denigration as we have just about all ethnicities here. :D What was ascribed to New Yorkers was upsetting.

Apology accepted.[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Agreed.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[DFD1]

Perhaps HAL is just a bit too, how shall I say it,...."Quiet" for the New York Market.

Maybe their cruises do not provide enough "Razz Ma Tazz".

Anyway, I'm sorry they are leaving. It's a great city and fun as a cruise gateway.

[bepsf]

[quote name='serendipity1499'][SIZE=3]Brian.. Is it possible that the others are using much larger ships in NYC which have all the bells & whistles wanted by families rather than the smaller ship HAL was using?[/SIZE][/quote]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]Partially - but it's primarily due to pricing pressure.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]HAL does fairly well with the smaller ships on unique and lengthy intineraries where there is no competitive pricing pressure - and they do OK competing with other lines with the newer, larger ships on the 7-day run that are profitable due to their lower cost/passenger operating costs.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]HAL simply can't get better pricing on their ships than Carnival or NCL on comparable NY itineraries with smaller, outclassed ships where the operational costs for the run to Bermuda/Caribbean are prohibitively high - and they can't afford to run their more-expensive-to-operate/per passenger ships on the lower fares.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[foodsvcmgr]

How much less are Cunard, Princess, and Celebrity selling for that HAL is unable to compete on price?

Generally New York sailings have been priced higher than those from Florida or elsewhere for many years.

I'm sure HAL/Carnival Corp. has some good reasoning here, just don't think any of us have hit on it.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Where is Veendam going? Maybe it's not so much that the NY to Bermuda run isn't making a profit. Maybe there's more money to be made somewhere else?

[CruiseAdict218]

[quote name='3rdGenCunarder']Where is Veendam going? Maybe it's not so much that the NY to Bermuda run isn't making a profit. Maybe there's more money to be made somewhere else?[/quote]

I believe Alaska, as her last cruise posted on HAL's site was ending in Vancouver, of course that was a year ago, and that could have changed, so I could be wrong.

[3rdGenCunarder]

[quote name='CruiseAdict218']I believe Alaska, as her last cruise posted on HAL's site was ending in Vancouver, of course that was a year ago, and that could have changed, so I could be wrong.[/quote]

Alaska makes sense for her. The lack of the aft pool is less significant there.

[CruiseAdict218]

[quote name='3rdGenCunarder']Alaska makes sense for her. The lack of the aft pool is less significant there.[/quote]

Actually, just looking at HAL's site, her lasted posted cruise is her Voyage of the Vikings, out of Boston in July 2013.

[Boytjie]

[quote name='foodsvcmgr']How much less are Cunard, Princess, and Celebrity selling for that HAL is unable to compete on price?[/QUOTE]

As far as Cunard is concerned: other than transatlantics it doesn't have any regular service out of New York, it occcasionall calls on it on a few Caribbean or short Canadian cruises.

Princess has a short season of Canadian cruises. I dont think they do regular Caribbean cruises out of New York anymore.