China

[voyager70]

I would imagine the top 5% of Chinese could comfortable afford to cruise. 5% of 1.4 Billion is 70 million who could easily afford a cruise. Only 18.5 million people in the US have ever even been on a cruise.

 

China is a market most Americans cannot begin to comprehend. I once thought of China as a third world country until I spent a few weeks there. Sure we saw a lot of poverty but we also saw a LOT of RollsRoyce, Ferraris , Lamborghinis and thousands of magnificent condos, office buildings, apartments. We stayed in hotels that put most US hotels to shame. Cruise lines are not stupid, they know exactly what they are doing with their most valuable assets.

 

Got it. You stayed in the most exclusive hotels. Most exclusive neighborhoods with the most exclusive cars Too bad for the common folk.

[FUN33]

Got it. You stayed in the most exclusive hotels. Most exclusive neighborhoods with the most exclusive cars Too bad for the common folk.

 

You could not be more incorrect. Just walk around the major cities anywhere in China and this is what you observe. Have you ever been to China?

 

Anyone who has actually spent any time there knows exactly what I am talking about. Beijing, Wuhan, Xian - blindfold any American, drop them off in the central business districts of these cities and they be stunned at the quality of life. American airports are an absolute disgrace when compared to the massive, beautiful, clean and incredibly efficient modern Chinese airports.

 

Always interesting how some people have such expertise on something they have never personally experienced.

[chaosdreamer]

Not sure if this is true or if anyone else has mentioned it before but I was chatting with some of the Chinese crew during my cruise on the Indy in February 2014 (I'm Chinese and I speak fluent Mandarin) and when I commented on being surprised at seeing crew members from China, I was told that RCI started recruiting in China so that they could pull the best of the Chinese members for the Quantum because some Chinese group helped finance either Anthem and/or Ovation (not sure because they just said "the newest ship") and part of that agreement was that Quantum would do year-round trips out of China for 3(?) years.

[voyager70]

You could not be more incorrect. Just walk around the major cities anywhere in China and this is what you observe. Have you ever been to China?

 

Anyone who has actually spent any time there knows exactly what I am talking about. Beijing, Wuhan, Xian - blindfold any American, drop them off in the central business districts of these cities and they be stunned at the quality of life. American airports are an absolute disgrace when compared to the massive, beautiful, clean and incredibly efficient modern Chinese airports.

 

Always interesting how some people have such expertise on something they have never personally experienced.

 

And at what expense to the people. China is set to spend another 20 bil at least on the 2016 Olypmpics.

[Domino D]

And at what expense to the people. China is set to spend another 20 bil at least on the 2016 Olypmpics.

 

What?

[John&LaLa]

What?

 

2022 winter games, not 2016

[sfaaa]

You could not be more incorrect. Just walk around the major cities anywhere in China and this is what you observe. Have you ever been to China?

 

Anyone who has actually spent any time there knows exactly what I am talking about. Beijing, Wuhan, Xian - blindfold any American, drop them off in the central business districts of these cities and they be stunned at the quality of life. American airports are an absolute disgrace when compared to the massive, beautiful, clean and incredibly efficient modern Chinese airports.

 

Always interesting how some people have such expertise on something they have never personally experienced.

 

I am sure if you drop a bunch of Chinese villagers off in the middle of Las Vegas strip, they would say the same thing about America. Having tunnel vision is no better than being misinformed. If you want to see the real China where the 80%ers live, go to a remote village in inner China. You will be horrified by the appalling third world living conditions some of these people have to endure. Why do you think so many Chinese want to come to America if things are indeed so good over there?

[Domino D]

2022 winter games, not 2016

 

Ok, that makes more sense. Thought China was being nice and building things for Brazil.

[Ashland]

I would imagine the top 5% of Chinese could comfortable afford to cruise. 5% of 1.4 Billion is 70 million who could easily afford a cruise. Only 18.5 million people in the US have ever even been on a cruise.

 

China is a market most Americans cannot begin to comprehend. I once thought of China as a third world country until I spent a few weeks there. Sure we saw a lot of poverty but we also saw a LOT of RollsRoyce, Ferraris , Lamborghinis and thousands of magnificent condos, office buildings, apartments. We stayed in hotels that put most US hotels to shame. Cruise lines are not stupid, they know exactly what they are doing with their most valuable assets.

I also have been to China a few times...sure there's wealth but it's the younger Chinese that have it...Their parents, grandparents etc. saved their whole life and gave it to their kids who now spend spend spend.

While the elders continue live in poverty.

 

Also were you aware that many of those new highrise apartment buildings, malls and even some towns are empty.

[The_Big_M]

That wealth may be taking a bit of a hit in recent days, you think? I understand what you're saying but I stand by my comments that we don't need to send anymore ships to China. Rather send some more down your way :)

 

While I think that'd be great, the maths is that there are more millionaires in China than the whole of our population.

 

I believe those metrics are what the cruiselines are looking at.

[icat2000]

That wealth may be taking a bit of a hit in recent days, you think? I understand what you're saying but I stand by my comments that we don't need to send anymore ships to China. Rather send some more down your way :)

More ships my way would make me happy.

 

I was in Beijing and travelling the Silk Road last year and I was surprised how bling bling it was. Neon lights everywhere. I'm going back to China next year land touring again. The country and the cultural and hertiage sites are really interesting. I found Beijing very easy to get around, also very clean. Train system was clean and efficient.

[reedy8]

I sailed on the Mariner recently in Asia...loved the itinerary...but as far as what the ship had become and the asian demographics onboard... I knew what I was getting into but it was worse than ever expected....never again. JMHO

I read your post I think, put me off cruises out of Shanghai although perhaps there would be not quite the same issues coming out of other Asian ports. eg cruises from Singapore

[roquejo]

There is really not much risk as ships simply move around. It's not like they are building massive hotels in China that permanently stays there.

 

China has huge potential, but if it fails, ships just go simply elsewhere.

 

It's not only Quantum and Ovation, but Voyager and Mariner as well -> big ships call China..

 

And rumor is the 4th Oasis class ship is destined for China. Makes sense for RCCL as 2 Oasis classes are in the US, Harmony in Europe, and one Oasis in Asia.. and they are the top 3 cruising regions.

 

Everyone is jumping to Asia... lately even NCL joined the fray.

Edited August 25, 2015 by roquejo

[ATC cruiser]

Do you really think that RCI has not done they're research regarding China. The amount of wealth in the pacific rim is incredible. People over there are apparently spending it also, just look at some of the itineraries for Quantum. A 4 night cruise starts at over $800 per person, and that's for an inside cabin. They're also drawing passengers from other countries like Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. Even if 80% of the Chinese population doesn't make a yuan ( Chinese currency ) that still leaves over 280 million people to draw from, and that doesn't include the passengers from other Asian counties that Royal is hoping to attract.

[Havingfun2010]

There are several different major regions of the world, and each area has their own way of acting and doing things that is considerably different than what we expect and are used to. That is why people travel. You either like it or don't.

 

As far as the stock market is concerned, I doubt that would effect how the 'rich' Chinese spend their money. I think one ship is only a small speck in the big picture in China.

[The_Big_M]

....until it is negatively affected by a huge market downturn. I don't think that Asians are immune from human natuare in that when their savings are dwindling (regardless of the size of it) spending on luxuries is the first thing that gets affected.:cool:

 

 

There was a market downturn affecting America a few years back.

 

It didn't remove all the wealth (as per the reply you quoted), and didn't cause RCCL to remove all ships from the America due to lack of sales.

 

I don't see the above as any reason against operating out of China either.

[Biker19]

There was a market downturn affecting America a few years back.

 

It didn't remove all the wealth (as per the reply you quoted), and didn't cause RCCL to remove all ships from the America due to lack of sales.

 

I don't see the above as any reason against operating out of China either.

 

The expansion into China was based on x number of folks having enough disposable income who want to cruise. Well, that number is going to suffer after the market downturn which will have an affect on cruising there. This is not a wholesale exit from the market anyone is talking about, but a slowing of the expansion due to less than projected number of folks with disposable income who want to cruise. Or perhaps the numbers may be the same but they won't be able to get the high fares currently available. I have a feeling that if RCI had planned to send Q4 and O4 to Asia, those plans may get modified in the next few months if the market continues the current trend.

[nelblu]

Just like a few years ago during the financial crisis in the US, China began with it's real estate downturn, then suddenly, the Chinese transferred their assets into stocks and the upward scale was unprecedented. Finally, it could not continue at that pace, just like it's economy and the stock market began a downward spiral which is continuing. The biggest unknown is how the Chinese govt/politicans will react. Just look at the impact on Macao's gambling due to the Chinese govt. actions. First it started with the no-smoking and later monetary policies.

[davenew]

Ships are portable.

 

That's abroad statement:eek:

[davenew]

There is really not much risk as ships simply move around. It's not like they are building massive hotels in China that permanently stays there.

 

China has huge potential, but if it fails, ships just go simply elsewhere.

 

It's not only Quantum and Ovation, but Voyager and Mariner as well -> big ships call China..

 

And rumor is the 4th Oasis class ship is destined for China. Makes sense for RCCL as 2 Oasis classes are in the US, Harmony in Europe, and one Oasis in Asia.. and they are the top 3 cruising regions.

 

Everyone is jumping to Asia... lately even NCL joined the fray.

 

BTW, Harmony is only spending its maiden season based in Europe (Barcelona)

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

There is really not much risk as ships simply move around. It's not like they are building massive hotels in China that permanently stays there.

 

China has huge potential, but if it fails, ships just go simply elsewhere.

 

It's not only Quantum and Ovation, but Voyager and Mariner as well -> big ships call China..

 

And rumor is the 4th Oasis class ship is destined for China. Makes sense for RCCL as 2 Oasis classes are in the US, Harmony in Europe, and one Oasis in Asia.. and they are the top 3 cruising regions.

Everyone is jumping to Asia... lately even NCL joined the fray.

 

But according to the Deployment Thread, it is starting to seem like all 3 Oasis Class ships will be spending the summer of 2017 in Florida. Port bookings are showing this and that would mean no Oasis Class in the Med, so no one really knows what their plan is with Oasis 4. If they were going to send an Oasis Class to China, I'm hoping it would be Oasis and Allure. They need to switch things up a bit in Florida.

[The_Big_M]

The expansion into China was based on x number of folks having enough disposable income who want to cruise. Well, that number is going to suffer after the market downturn which will have an affect on cruising there. This is not a wholesale exit from the market anyone is talking about, but a slowing of the expansion due to less than projected number of folks with disposable income who want to cruise. Or perhaps the numbers may be the same but they won't be able to get the high fares currently available. I have a feeling that if RCI had planned to send Q4 and O4 to Asia, those plans may get modified in the next few months if the market continues the current trend.

 

Perhaps, but this wouldn't be the first time.

 

Voyager's deployment was not as successful as planned either.

 

Nevertheless, it is a big opportunity and RCL are determined to make it succeed, given the potential. Whether 50 million people are in their target market, or 60 million people is not significant at this stage.

[Chelsea1]

Does anyone know when the summer 2016 China cruises will be open for booking? There is still nothing showing for Voyager and Ovation for June thru October.

[jules815]

but put those tables up in the promenade with the cheaper sale items and it was like a "Black Friday" mad rush with grabbing and shoving..unlike anything I have ever seen on board or even in my hometown stores..and this pushing shoving mentality happened many other places especially any place where common courtesy or a line up was common

 

I've witnessed this same thing on both Freedom and Liberty of the Seas! They did a countdown before they unveiled the tables full of cheap crap. And these were all Caribbean cruises. :eek:

Edited August 26, 2015 by jules815

[Ashland]

I've witnessed this same thing on both Freedom and Liberty of the Seas! They did a countdown before they unveiled the tables full of cheap crap. And these were all Caribbean cruises. :eek:

Yes...seen them too in the Caribbean, Europe, Mexico....but Asia much worse...funny the only place I haven't seen it happen was Alaska ;)