Princess Survey about Formal Nights

[MicCanberra]

Why are those who prefer a more relaxed dress code always accused of being all about "MEEEEEEEEEEE". Aren't those who want to impose a stricter dress code also being all about "MEEEEEEEEEE"?

 

 

 

Fair question about polls. Here's one that is very pertinent. It's a poll of a cruise critic members, specifically Celebrity cruisers, asking them about what they think about the "Chic" (formal optional dress code) on Celebrity. I think most would consider Celebrity a fair approximation of Princess. BTW, less than 30% disapproved of the change. Amazing, very similar results to the wider poll mentioned by others.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2278817&highlight=formal+poll

 

A Cruise critic poll for celebrity cruisers with a good representation of that group.

The cruising public (not on CC) would most likely fall into 'I don't care', as it is price and itinerary that attracts me to a particular line rather than the dress code.

[RocketMan275]

A Cruise critic poll for celebrity cruisers with a good representation of that group.

The cruising public (not on CC) would most likely fall into 'I don't care', as it is price and itinerary that attracts me to a particular line rather than the dress code.

 

I'm not so sure. The results of the cruise critic poll and the industry wide poll are remarkably similar. But, even if you're correct that the cruising public falls into the "I don't care" category, that isn't a stunning endorsement of formal nights. You would probably wind up with even fewer than 30% in favor of formal nights.

Edited December 21, 2015 by RocketMan275

[XBGuy]

Its very best remembering there are usually over 3000 folks to feed 3 times a day and in between.Yes mass market.

Under the circumstances I feel Princess does a very good job.The MDR's are their equivalent of fine dining they are beautifully furnished with cotton table clothes and napkins all set up with the wine glasses in place.If one does not like a dish they will replace it immediately with one to your liking.The Head waiter and all the waiters dress up for formal nights which as I mentioned earlier are few and far between.If Princess pays for all this special clothing the employees wear in MDR to compliment we passengers on these nights surely no harm is done to anyone to keep up traditions.Next we will be voting against Canada Day plus Four of July part of our heritage and TRADITION:eek:

 

Good job Kruisey. An original though after 13 pages of this conversation.

 

I had never thought of this, but I think this thought has merit. My experience is that when I am well-dressed we do seem to get more attentive service from the headwaiter and the staff. It may be that when they see a well-dressed couple enjoying their evening and engaging the staff with conversation and questions, they may feel that these people deserve the next level of service.

 

Then, again, maybe I'm delusional.

 

FWIW, we rarely dine in the dining rooms. We have most of our dinners in the specialty restaurants. Also, interestingly enough, neither of us wanted to pack for formal nights (2) on our last cruise. It is a one-hour drive for us to the port. So, we did not have the airline issue. I just did not want to pack another pair of shoes (Yes, I agree that it was silly.), and, for this cruise, my wife was OK with it. We did the UBD one night, and I think we did room service the second night.

[MGAfhc]

"I'm quite happy with a jacket and tie standard" When did you last cruise on HAL? A short sleeve polo shirt is not a jacket and tie. Read and weep:

 

Did Holland America Line change their dress code?

 

"A: Yes, some refinements were made to improve consistency and the policy now reads:

 

 

Most evenings smart casual attire is appropriate. Shorts, pool/beachwear, distressed jeans and men’s tank tops are best left to the daytime and are not permitted in fine dining restaurants.

Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising as guests dress to impress for special events on board, including our five-course gourmet dinner in the Dining Room. For gentlemen, collared shirts and slacks are required in all fine dining restaurants."

 

That's a bit of selective editing. The whole quote is:

 

Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising as guests

dress to impress for special events on board, including a fivecourse

gourmet dinner in the Dining Room. For gentlemen,

jacket and tie are appropriate, collared shirt and slacks are

required in all restaurants except those on Lido Deck which

permit jeans, shorts and T-shirts.

[Brisbane41]

We are in favor of "Smart Casual" for the entire cruise with Optional Formal Dress on one night of a 7 day cruise. (one additional night for each additional 7 days of a cruise).

No shorts, tank tops, non-dress jeans, etc. at dinner in the MDR or specialty restaurants strictly enforced.

 

Try enforcing that rule to passengers, particularly Australians. I just came off a 8 night cruise on Royal Caribbeans Radiance of the Seas. The demographic was mainly Australian families. The dress code had that rule you quoted but it was not enforced. Do you want to know what the majority of Australians wore of an evening? They wore shorts, thongs (flip-flops), tank tops or t-shirts. For a formal night it consisted of an ironed turtle neck t-shirt with jeans and joggers.

 

I am used to smart casual and felt my smart casual was far too dressy for that ship.

 

The reason I am commenting about Royal Caribbean here is that I would hate to see Princess follow that path and make their customers feel uncomfortable with the ship descending into poorer standards.

[kennicott]

That's a bit of selective editing. The whole quote is:

 

Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising as guests

dress to impress for special events on board, including a fivecourse

gourmet dinner in the Dining Room. For gentlemen,

jacket and tie are appropriate, collared shirt and slacks are

required in all restaurants except those on Lido Deck which

permit jeans, shorts and T-shirts.

 

That is verbatim, not selective wording. Matter of fact, I cut and pasted it myself. Straight off of HAL's official website two hours ago. The language you highlighted in red, "jacket and tie are appropriate" does not exist. https://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Cruise+Preparation&contentMenu=Baggage,+Packing+%26+Dress+Code&contentSubMenu=Is+There+A+Dress+Code?&WT.ac=PopTop_Dress

[kennicott]

Fair question about polls. Here's one that is very pertinent. It's a poll of a cruise critic members, specifically Celebrity cruisers, asking them about what they think about the "Chic" (formal optional dress code) on Celebrity. I think most would consider Celebrity a fair approximation of Princess. BTW, less than 30% disapproved of the change. Amazing, very similar results to the wider poll mentioned by others.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2278817&highlight=formal+poll

 

Somewhere a few pages back someone posted something about this 30% and 70%. I doubt it is accurate for Princess because if only 30% wanted formal night they would have done away with it a long time ago.

 

As I have posted before I prefer for formal night to continue. Now I am out of here and looking forward to when I can take my next Princess cruise and enjoy the ambience of a ship with most people dressed up. Makes the experience special.

 

I agree, it does appear to me that Celebrity passengers are very close to peer status with Princess guests. It would be difficult to justify any significant differences between cruise experience preferences between the two groups. I wager that if a similar poll were taken for Princess, as occurred for Celebrity regarding formal nights, the results will be very close, particularly if there is an impressive response of over 1000 as in that case.

 

As for the question of why Princess would have waited so long if they had any idea that less than 30% of their guests favor formal nights. There are a number of logical reasons for that. The same might be asked of Celebrity, why did they wait so long?

As much as we like formal nights, I have long been of the belief that the formal nights were numbered. I base that assumption on comments and discussions with and from fellow cruisers over the almost 600 days sailing experience we have had on the high seas.

 

We are not sure how many voyages we have in store for us in the future, however, age and time are catching up so probably not all that many. There are many aspects of cruising that we enjoy, unfortunately the days of climbing to the top of volcanoes on shore excursions have passed us by, but there is still lots more, one of which is formal nights. For our remaining cruises we will stick to those offering formal nights even if it means giving up our hard earned perks. HAL has already fallen by the wayside.

Edited December 21, 2015 by kennicott

[Palm Trees]

I would do away with formal nights. NO I won't eat in other venues, I paid to eat in the dining room with the same waiters every night in traditional dining.

 

"traditional dining" = traditional dress. My DH and I feel if there are white tablecloths, waiters in tuxedos, more glassware and silverware than we could possibly use, then we should dress "up" to it. Formal night = traditional cruising and we will vote to KEEP it at least ONE night. Perhaps one dining room is designated formal that night.

 

PS My DH just bought a tux this past spring after renting it onboard. That was quite a savings...IF he wears it!

[MGAfhc]

That is verbatim, not selective wording. Matter of fact, I cut and pasted it myself. Straight off of HAL's official website two hours ago. The language you highlighted in red, "jacket and tie are appropriate" does not exist. https://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Cruise+Preparation&contentMenu=Baggage,+Packing+%26+Dress+Code&contentSubMenu=Is+There+A+Dress+Code?&WT.ac=PopTop_Dress

 

It's straight from the downloadable guidebook referenced on the same page you quote. If you had read a few lines below your quote you would have found the following:

 

"Q: Are a jacket and tie required for men?

 

A: Jacket and tie is the preferred attire in all fine dining restaurants on Gala Nights, though it is not required. Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change."

 

It sound quite clear to me.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Probably Cunard will be the only line left with a formal night. Are there any others out there that do it?

 

Crystal and Silverseas do someone earlier mentioned Seabourn but I think they're formal optional on longer cruises and gone on 7 day cruises

 

Crystal hasn't had formal nights for several years. It's now called "Black Tie Optional." They also stopped renting tuxes onboard -- because they are following the worldwide trend to more casual dress. Name one cruise line that has increased its dress standards?

[Cruise Junky]

Crystal hasn't had formal nights for several years. It's now called "Black Tie Optional." They also stopped renting tuxes onboard -- because they are following the worldwide trend to more casual dress. Name one cruise line that has increased its dress standards?

 

Ohhhh didn't know that. I saw a Crystal itinerary that appealed but thought it would be too formal

[Cruise Junky]

"traditional dining" = traditional dress. My DH and I feel if there are white tablecloths, waiters in tuxedos, more glassware and silverware than we could possibly use, then we should dress "up" to it. Formal night = traditional cruising and we will vote to KEEP it at least ONE night. Perhaps one dining room is designated formal that night.

 

PS My DH just bought a tux this past spring after renting it onboard. That was quite a savings...IF he wears it!

 

Does he wear a tux at home if the restaurant has table clothes, glassware and silverware?

[JimmyVWine]

I do not believe that "a slice of the cruising population wants Princess to keep them specifically because other lines are abolishing them." That "slice" was arguing to keep them before the other cruise lines ever contemplated abolishing formal nights.

 

That was then, and this is now. You are correct that people were arguing to keep formal nights even when other cruise lines maintained theirs. But now that the other cruise lines are phasing them out, these same people have all the more reason to argue for Princess to keep its Formal Night. The closer a species gets to extinction, the louder the cry to protect it. And Formal Nights on mass market cruise lines are indeed endangered.

Edited December 21, 2015 by JimmyVWine

[MicCanberra]

I'm not so sure. The results of the cruise critic poll and the industry wide poll are remarkably similar. But, even if you're correct that the cruising public falls into the "I don't care" category, that isn't a stunning endorsement of formal nights. You would probably wind up with even fewer than 30% in favor of formal nights.

 

I didn't say it did, just the contrary that they probably wouldn't be voting for formal nights.

[MicCanberra]

Try enforcing that rule to passengers, particularly Australians. I just came off a 8 night cruise on Royal Caribbeans Radiance of the Seas. The demographic was mainly Australian families. The dress code had that rule you quoted but it was not enforced. Do you want to know what the majority of Australians wore of an evening? They wore shorts, thongs (flip-flops), tank tops or t-shirts. For a formal night it consisted of an ironed turtle neck t-shirt with jeans and joggers.

 

I am used to smart casual and felt my smart casual was far too dressy for that ship.

 

The reason I am commenting about Royal Caribbean here is that I would hate to see Princess follow that path and make their customers feel uncomfortable with the ship descending into poorer standards.

 

It is catch 22. but I feel that that cruise was not typical for Australians (just like any other nationality) and is more indicative of the line and the enforcing of policy.

[MicCanberra]

That was then, and this is now. You are correct that people were arguing to keep formal nights even when other cruise lines maintained theirs. But now that the other cruise lines are phasing them out, these same people have all the more reason to argue for Princess to keep its Formal Night. The closer a species gets to extinction, the louder the cry to protect it. And Formal Nights on mass market cruise lines are indeed endangered.

 

Agreed.:D

[4cats4me]

Wow, what a lot of posts to weed through. I haven't read them yet, but we too received the survey. Haven't read it yet ... Only thing I honed in on was the name choices for formal night.

I like Elegant Evenings .....

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited December 21, 2015 by 4cats4me

[4cats4me]

I just completed said survey and suggested Harmonic Humanity Night as an alternative to Formal Night.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited December 21, 2015 by 4cats4me

[Coveguy4]

Because for some, cruising is more than just transportation between destinations. If I eat at Applebee's for dinner, I'm expecting a casual crowd of diners and atmosphere. But if I'm dining in a restaurant that has a stated standard of dress, i.e. suit and tie for gentlemen (yes, there are some where I live), I expect a more formal atmosphere and dining experience. Dining can be an experience or it can just be eating food. And I think that's what I'm hearing those who want a formal evening on the cruise saying. It's all about the experience. It's just not the same dining experience sitting at a table dressed up while the person next to you as well as half of the MDR is in a polo shirt, jeans or khakis or capris/sundress.

 

I could not have expressed my thoughts any better. Thank You! Some people will never understand what ambiance is. The whole dining experience is truely enhanced when you are surrounded by fellow cruisers who feel the same way.

[Woobstr112G]

"traditional dining" = traditional dress. My DH and I feel if there are white tablecloths, waiters in tuxedos, more glassware and silverware than we could possibly use, then we should dress "up" to it. Formal night = traditional cruising and we will vote to KEEP it at least ONE night. Perhaps one dining room is designated formal that night.

 

PS My DH just bought a tux this past spring after renting it onboard. That was quite a savings...IF he wears it!

 

Agreed.....:):):)

 

Bob

[satxdiver]

Princess has 2 formal nights on most or all 7 day cruises. However viewing the pax in the MDR on formal night one will see on males tux, suit, sport coat or no coat and many without a tie. On women you will see formal dresses, cocktail dresses, pants suits, black pants and top with sparkles and flip flops. It looks like the pax have already voted with mode of dress and Princess does not enforce most of their "rules". Instead of another meaningless survey, all management has to do is observe what the pax are already doing or wearing. Any attempt at this point after years of lax enforcement to enforce their "rules" would definitely impact their bottom line. I don't see it going back to 20 years ago or so but rather moving towards no formal night for most pax.

 

CCL has elegant night where pax are encouraged to "dress up" but not required. If Princess were to move in that direction, they definitely need to enforce their new rules or suffer the further downgrade of dress in the MDR.

[RocketMan275]

That was then, and this is now. You are correct that people were arguing to keep formal nights even when other cruise lines maintained theirs. But now that the other cruise lines are phasing them out, these same people have all the more reason to argue for Princess to keep its Formal Night. The closer a species gets to extinction, the louder the cry to protect it. And Formal Nights on mass market cruise lines are indeed endangered.

 

I believe you are correct. I can remember when my country club had a formal and a casual bar. There was a casual dining restaurant and a causal bar area. There was formal dining venue with it's own special, and very nice, menu. A suit, not a sports coat, was required.

 

Now, there still is a "formal dining" room which only requires a sports coat and tie. The menu is the same as the casual dining room. Blue jeans and shorts are allowed in the casual dining room and bar. A shirt with color (polo) is also required. I would say 90% of those dining there are in the casual restaurant.

 

We just had our Christmas Dinner last Saturday. The dress was country club casual. A few years ago, a suite would have been the minimum requirement.

Edited December 21, 2015 by RocketMan275

[RocketMan275]

I didn't say it did, just the contrary that they probably wouldn't be voting for formal nights.

 

Thanks for the correction.

[Steelers36]

We have not received the survey either, but in case we don't, I thought I'd respond to it below just for fun. And perhaps it will indicate better where I think than more words on the topic.

 

Just came upon this thread as have not been on CC lately and read all 15 pages. Many of them I could respond to, but that would be tedious for me and you all, so I will comment on some general themes and mention just a few posts in passing.

 

I really thought OSU Buckeyes hit it well in #119. (And I do love me some Buckeyes).

 

I thought Wehwalt captured the insightful assessment of the current state - a written stated recommendation (it's not a policy folks) that is not enforced. It does create some confusion. MGAfhc revisited this theme in #227 where question posed as to what formal means for men - what is described in the AnswerBook, or what is enforced?

 

Generally enforced are the "thou shall not wear" items which pretty routinely folks are turned away with at least on formal nights. However, some delight in reporting what must be rather isolated incidents of folks wearing very casual wear into MDR's in the evening. I sure hope those were not formal nights as I just have not seen anything close to the hyperbole of claims and yet I know some crazy getups have happened. Well, more than enough said there. Not looking to argue with folks experiences.

 

I agree there is a range of clothing worn, but the great majority in my observation do make the effort and are just fine on formal nights. I also observe and believe most people are not wearing their "day-wear" for smart casual dining, but the interpretation is fairly broad in that area.

 

JimmyV at #185 wondered what would differentiate Princess if they are the last major mass market line to go formal optional (sorry folks, Cunard is not "major market"). My answer is that the same things that differentiated them when all the major still had formal codes.

 

I've posted on previous dress discussions that I think HAL's new descriptions capture something I identify with and SaltyDog and RocketMan referenced these around #243, #244.

 

Quite a few posts discussed that well formal isn't really formal anymore since food and so on is not the same. Okay, but I am with PartieBarbie at #257, where she brought to the discussion the very important point that fine dining isn't just about the food and included an eloquent description of fine dining. I think Princess achieves a nice upscale atmosphere in the MDR's and many dishes are unique considering it's mass food. Sure, food is subjective and plenty of times, there are dishes that don't measure up.

 

I would certainly consider CG fine dining consistently, with a nice atmosphere, and with attentive, professional service. And we don't have to be formal there.

 

 

If formal nights remain as they are now, I would be okay with that and not complain. If they are changed to formal optional with all cruise nights a smart casual (or resort casual or elegant casual - pick your term), then I am fine with that.

 

And the reason is that I am happy to put on better clothes and look smartly dressed for dinner as a change from shorts, T's and bathing suits worn during the day. But I don't need to be in a formal suit. Today Princess' RECOMMENDATIONS for formal night allow me to wear a tie or not, a jacket or not because the enforcement is to a lower standard.

 

 

 

And now, here is how I will answer the survey if I receive it:

 

The following questions are designed to tell us what our guests think of Formal Nights aboard Princess Cruises. Click NEXT to continue.

Please let us know how much you agree or disagree with the following statements:

 

 

I would be bothered if formal dress were optional on Formal Night.

0 - Completely Disagree

 

Formal Nights enhance my cruise experience.

7

 

Eliminating formal occasions would make me more likely to book a cruise.

0

 

Limiting formal occasions to one Formal Night instead of two would make me more likely to book a cruise.

0

 

Formal Nights are very important to my spouse or significant other.

0

 

If I choose not to dress up for Formal Night, there are sufficient alternative dining venues for me to eat at.

4 - Hard to pick a number here, as buffet is not objectionable to me, but not our preference for dinner. Agree the CG is a viable option, but don't necessarily want to go 2x per cruise and I really like doing it the last night. I also like Winemakers, but that isn't necessarily on a formal night and it is held in the MDR. The other reason is that the way formal night is enforced, I see no reason to avoid the MDR if dressed nicely and not quite up to the requested recommended attire.

 

 

How many formal nights do you think we should have on a 7-day cruise?

1 - If change to Formal Optional (on second thought, why not all 7 as Formal Optional as I have seen a small percentage wear suit all nights - not BT).

I think it also depends where the cruise is and the type/style of cruise.

 

In the Caribbean, I'd be happy with 0 stated nights and IDC how many Formal Optionals. I do understand how it seems a waste to have 1 Formal Night in terms of bringing special wardrobe items for a single night, so the current 2 is fine. I'd just prefer optional. Sorry to be a fence-sitter.

 

I don't agree with Princess asking for up to six nights. I don't see first and last night changing AT ALL, so the max is really 5 for practical purposes.

 

 

If Cruise Line A had Formal Nights and Cruise Line B did not--everything else was equal--with which cruise line would you be most likely to book a cruise?

 

Cruise Line A (offers Formal Nights) - 0 - Least likely

Cruise Line B (no Formal Nights) - 10 - Most likely

But everything else is never equal. I would choose a better cruise experience over a poorer cruise experience, even if it meant participating in formal night.

 

 

How likely are you to purchase a cruise vacation in the near future?

8 - We will cruise again, but not sure when next. Probably 2017, if not next fall. And it will probably be Princess.

 

 

What changes would you make to the Formal Night experience? (Please limit responses to 450 letters & spaces.)

I don't think Formal Nights should be discussed in isolation from the other nights. I would set a Smart Casual dress standard and enforce to that on ALL nights, enforcing the stated rules of no shorts, flip flops, caps, t-shirts, stretch pants and other obvious "loungewear". I would designate one or two nights as something like "Elegant Evenings" where passengers are invited to go formal or are encouraged to bling it up or step it up a notch.

 

 

What do you typically wear on Formal Night?

Dress pants (Tommy Bahama silk type tropical pants). A long sleeved shirt. A linen jacket. Maybe a tie, but not always and maybe not again. Yes, we have only cruised in the Caribbean.

But I would take same approach to West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska, South Pacific, Australia. I might re-consider a bit in Europe, depending on what trend was at that time.

 

 

Princess Cruises is considering re-naming Formal Night. Please rate the appeal of the following names. Please also rate the appeal of the original name, "Formal Night," that is also included in the list.

 

Date Night - 0 Not at all appealing. Sounds hokey to me. Date Night could be a burger and beer, followed by a movie.

Formal Night - 5 - It's okay, but also a bit misleading. I think it could use an update.

Elegant Evenings - 9 - I like this one, and I used it above. What a coincidence! This works much better for the more inclusive way Formal Nights are now with a little more wriggle room in the "code".

Classic Chic Night - 4 - Does this mean guests dress like in the 60's, 70's 20's? Classic trends to formal and to the past. Chic trends to fashion and fashionable and current, so it doesn't evoke "formal" if that was the intent.

Red Carpet Nights - 1 - A little over-the-top and sounds like a class definition.

Romantic Evenings - 5 - It's okay, but aren't all evenings on the Love Boat supposed to be romantic?

Enchanted Evenings - 3 - Weak. (Princess already calls all of their evenings "enchanted" in the Patters).

 

What other names for Formal Night should Princess Cruises consider using?

We seem to agree on Elegant Evenings. I'm not very good at catchy marketing names. Just don't go all weird and name it something confusing.

Edited December 21, 2015 by steelers36

[partybarbie]

steelers36, What a great solution. It's too bad you don't work for Princess.:D