New gratuities by May 1st, 2016

[LA_CA_GAL]

Auto gratuities are stealing from the passengers plain and simple. If others want to let the company steal money from them fine but don't tell me and others we must allow this. I do not believe alcohol belongs on cruise ships, just based upon safety issues. But I do not impose my believes about this on others, if you want to drink drink.

 

So please don't tell me how much or how I should be tipping employees of the cruise lines. Tipping is one American invention that is a failure. SO I always remove the auto gratuities from my on ship account and will continue to do so. Nothing anyone posts here will ever get my to change my values.

 

Post away about how I'm uncaring, should not cruise whatever..... all it does is confirm even more that I am right.

 

IMNSHO, gratuities are the stupidest thing that the cruise industry has ever implemented.

 

Basic business economics involve budgeting. Let’s assume a cruise ship has 1,000 passengers. Further assume that each passenger will be charged $100 in gratuities.

Total revenue estimate should be $10,000.

Further, assume 10% will not pay. The cruise line expects to receive $9,000.

 

However, 20% do not pay. This provides a shortfall of $1,000. What is the cruiseline going to do? Obviously, raise the price on the gratuities.

Who does this penalize? Those that pay.

 

Gratuities should be abolished. Just increase the cost of the cruise

so everyone pays their fair share. End of story, period, the end.

[knittinggirl]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but if we are dining at specialty restaurants 3-5 times on a 7-night cruise, are we allowed to ask for those dining tips to be removed so that we can tip individually to the services used those days since the specialty restaurant fees include gratuity?

 

I'd recommend against removing the dining portion of your tips. Your MDR staff also helps out in the other venues during the day. That dining room tip also includes the Windjammer, Cafe Promenade, etc.

[steveru621]

It's always amusing to read these gratuity threads! :rolleyes:

 

Has anyone's posted opinion changed yours?

[Ocean Boy]

IMNSHO, gratuities are the stupidest thing that the cruise industry has ever implemented.

 

Basic business economics involve budgeting. Let’s assume a cruise ship has 1,000 passengers. Further assume that each passenger will be charged $100 in gratuities.

Total revenue estimate should be $10,000.

Further, assume 10% will not pay. The cruise line expects to receive $9,000.

 

However, 20% do not pay. This provides a shortfall of $1,000. What is the cruiseline going to do? Obviously, raise the price on the gratuities.

Who does this penalize? Those that pay.

 

Gratuities should be abolished. Just increase the cost of the cruise

so everyone pays their fair share. End of story, period, the end.

That would be $100,000.00. CC rules say we can't correct spelling mistakes but they don't address math issues. :D

Edited March 30, 2016 by Ocean Boy

[knittinggirl]

I didn't get a letter from Royal Caribbean. IF you use a TA, do they send it only to the travel agent?

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

I have this sorted now.

 

5 Night speciality dining package for $100.

 

Every booking after is 10$ per visit per person. So im going to eat at Chops and Giovannis for the other 9 nights of the cruise and do away with the MDR. Will likely eat lunch there where possible also. So with the money saved by not paying Auto Tips on my room i can fund speciality dining for the whole 14 days near enough!!!

 

Pay my room attendant the money she would normally get. And do away with the MDR portion of the gratuity!

 

Better food, better service and there is enough on those menus to keep me happy for 2 weeks. Might throw in a chefs table to mix it up!

 

Just make sure that you use NO non-paid dining venues (including room service) as the MDR staff also works those. So no breakfast and no lunch when not available in a specialty restaurant. And no snacks.

[UCF_Knight]

It's always amusing to read these gratuity threads! :rolleyes:

 

Has anyone's posted opinion changed yours?

 

Has anyone's posted opinion on ANY topic ever changed yours?

[chengkp75]

From a customer viewpoint, the DSC may be a stupid idea, but from the cruise line's viewpoint, it is win/win.

 

One thing I did not make clear in my post #82 with regards to the minimum wage crew are paid is that the company does pay above this minimum, so that almost all "normal" reductions in DSC (they've got the statistical data to determine this) will still keep the wage above minimum. So, they can still use this as the stick of the carrot and stick method of management, while distancing themselves from being the "bad guy".

 

So, as long as the statistical mean of DSC is removed, or less, the company is not out anything, so there is no reason to increase the DSC. Frankly, I believe this increase in DSC is to cover the increase in MLC mandated minimum wage from $592 to $614. I believe the ILO will be meeting this year to determine the next 6-10 years' increases, and I would expect DSC's across the industry to climb to match.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

I didn't get a letter from Royal Caribbean. IF you use a TA, do they send it only to the travel agent?

 

That would be my guess since the TA owns the reservation until you embark.

[steveru621]

Has anyone's posted opinion on ANY topic ever changed yours?

 

Certainly a good point. I have to admit it's pretty rare where an opinion is involved mine has changed. But, if it weren't for CC I would not have known gratuities were increasing.

 

I guess stating my opinion makes ME feel better. Not necessarily trying to change someones opinion, but added what I consider to be factual that may allow posters to look at the issue from another angle. Maybe we all have fantasies of being a great orator able to bring others to your point of view.

 

It's better to believe, than to assume you are shouting into the darkness?

Edited March 30, 2016 by steveru621
spelling

[PH8]

Ill use them when i want to use them. i have paid the fare to be on the boat. They get a salary and if they give me decent service ill pay them directly.

 

Service in WJ is usually crap anyway so no danger of spending extra in there.

 

So no breakfast or lunch for you?

[LMaxwell]

From a customer viewpoint, the DSC may be a stupid idea, but from the cruise line's viewpoint, it is win/win.

 

One thing I did not make clear in my post #82 with regards to the minimum wage crew are paid is that the company does pay above this minimum, so that almost all "normal" reductions in DSC (they've got the statistical data to determine this) will still keep the wage above minimum. So, they can still use this as the stick of the carrot and stick method of management, while distancing themselves from being the "bad guy".

 

So, as long as the statistical mean of DSC is removed, or less, the company is not out anything, so there is no reason to increase the DSC. Frankly, I believe this increase in DSC is to cover the increase in MLC mandated minimum wage from $592 to $614. I believe the ILO will be meeting this year to determine the next 6-10 years' increases, and I would expect DSC's across the industry to climb to match.

 

In that sense are the services charges used to replenish the pot of money the company pays the salaries from?

[LMaxwell]

So no breakfast or lunch for you?

 

As long as the cruise lines maintain that these charges are optional, they can not require you pay them to use services included in the fare. I understand some may not agree, but that's the rules as they've been set up.

 

 

Whether you or I or anyone else finds the act of removing the gratuity charge simply because one can, and not due to a service issue, distasteful does not change the fact that it is within the rules and therefore not really "wrong"; that is to say no one is forcing RCI to go against their own published policies.

 

 

Bashing someone for their opinion almost certainly will not get anyone to change that opinion; but if you do not like the system in place tell the only ones that have any control over it and that would be the company because it seems to me people have an issue with the policy, but aim their grief towards individuals who are not setting the policy.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Has anyone's posted opinion on ANY topic ever changed yours?

 

There have been times when all the whining has made me consider if I even want to keep a cruise booked. Not so much my upcoming Brilliance one as I'm super excited about the itinerary but the Celebrity boards have definitely made me question if I want to bother keeping that one (however a friend who sails pretty much exclusively with them has assured me that those are extreme cases and she has never encountered serious issues).

[CruisingChick]

There have been times when all the whining has made me consider if I even want to keep a cruise booked. Not so much my upcoming Brilliance one as I'm super excited about the itinerary but the Celebrity boards have definitely made me question if I want to bother keeping that one (however a friend who sails pretty much exclusively with them has assured me that those are extreme cases and she has never encountered serious issues).

 

That's interesting I have always found the Celebrity boards much tamer than the RCCL boards.

 

We have done 21 Celebrity cruises and overall like the product, but they too have gone downhill from what they use to be.

[steveru621]

As long as the cruise lines maintain that these charges are optional, they can not require you pay them to use services included in the fare. I understand some may not agree, but that's the rules as they've been set up.

 

 

Whether you or I or anyone else finds the act of removing the gratuity charge simply because one can, and not due to a service issue, distasteful does not change the fact that it is within the rules and therefore not really "wrong"; that is to say no one is forcing RCI to go against their own published policies.

 

 

Bashing someone for their opinion almost certainly will not get anyone to change that opinion; but if you do not like the system in place tell the only ones that have any control over it and that would be the company because it seems to me people have an issue with the policy, but aim their grief towards individuals who are not setting the policy.

 

Well said!

[chengkp75]

In that sense are the services charges used to replenish the pot of money the company pays the salaries from?

 

The employment contract spells out how much of their wage comes from base wage and how much from DSC. So, as an example, (all theoretical) a cabin steward is being paid $650/month in base wage ($34 more than the minimum). Of that, $300 is stipulated as being base wage, and $350 as coming from the DSC (as determined by the company's DSC distribution formula). Now, if someone removes the DSC, that gets broken down into the appropriate shares, and each employee gets a little less than the $350. Until this money drops below $314 for this employee, the company does not have to make up the difference.

 

So, I guess that yes, the DSC and the amount of the employees' base wage are put into the pot and the employees paid from it.

[warezbabe]

I have very mixed feelings about gratuity. I understand the majority of people working onboard live in situations less fortunate than many of the cruisers. Several times with MTD, we were only addressed and served by the assistant waiter. We went to complain in the dining room to the head waiter, but he couldn't be bothered to listen to us, let alone address the problem. Other times service has far surpassed our expectations and we have felt compelled to tip additionally. We also travel with a party of 4-5 in one stateroom. Given that roughly $7.50pp goes to the room steward, that easily is $30-$37.50 daily to clean the cabin, $210-262.50 weekly. I don't tip a land based hotel housekeeper that much on a nightly basis. If a room steward cleans 4 rooms (and I think I'm low balling this number), they make more weekly than many Americans do! I realize these people work hard, there is no part of customer service that is easy, but I do not feel it is my responsibility to subsidize individual paychecks. That responsibility falls entirely to the employer, RCCL.

[LA_CA_GAL]

That would be $100,000.00. CC rules say we can't correct spelling mistakes but they don't address math issues. :D

 

Just wanted to see if anyone was paying attention.

[Thoie]

The employment contract spells out how much of their wage comes from base wage and how much from DSC. So, as an example, (all theoretical) a cabin steward is being paid $650/month in base wage ($34 more than the minimum). Of that, $300 is stipulated as being base wage, and $350 as coming from the DSC (as determined by the company's DSC distribution formula). Now, if someone removes the DSC, that gets broken down into the appropriate shares, and each employee gets a little less than the $350. Until this money drops below $314 for this employee, the company does not have to make up the difference.

 

So, I guess that yes, the DSC and the amount of the employees' base wage are put into the pot and the employees paid from it.

 

Where does the $314 come from?

 

So, using your theoretical figures, the employee is guaranteed a salary of $614 no matter what happens, but has the potential to earn $650 (plus maybe a bit more if people give additional personal tips)? Have I understood that properly? You seem to have used "base" wage in two different ways, so I just want to check I'm grasping it.

[tserface]

That is what we are doing (subsidizing their wages) and most people who have been cruising for a while know it and just consider it part of the cost of cruising. Whether we pay part of their salary in cruise fee or added on service charge doesn't make any difference to me. I still have to pay it. We just consider it like port fees or taxes that are added on to the price.

 

I think now that they are starting to call it a service charge rather than a gratuity the tip wars may calm down some... hopefully :)

 

Tom

 

Good point.

I personally dont like the idea of entitlement of gratuity as to me it looks like Royal are just using it to subsidise their wage bill.

[chengkp75]

Where does the $314 come from?

 

So, using your theoretical figures, the employee is guaranteed a salary of $614 no matter what happens, but has the potential to earn $650 (plus maybe a bit more if people give additional personal tips)? Have I understood that properly? You seem to have used "base" wage in two different ways, so I just want to check I'm grasping it.

 

Since the company is paying $300, then to reach the required minimum wage, the portion of their wage from DSC can fall from $350 to $314. ($300 + $314 = $614). Now, if the amount in the DSC pool will not cover the $314 per employee, then the company has to make up the difference to reach the minimum wage.

 

Perhaps I should have said base wage and minimum wage. Yes, your example is correct. And, to be more accurate, the example should have been more like $75 base wage, and $575 from DSC. It could, in fact, be $0 base wage, and $650 from DSC, but the $614 minimum wage would still hold, and the company would have to make up any shortfall. This is why I said the statement about them only making money from the DSC was "disingenuous" and not outright "false", because there is a minimum that the company has to meet, if DSC income is too low.

Edited March 30, 2016 by chengkp75

[LMaxwell]

Good point.

 

Few people seem to also make the distinction when someone who takes auto tips off and then pays people who think they deserve rewarding.

 

For example we had terrible MDR service on Anthem but one night we had a brilliant waiter and we tipped them 10$ just for the one meal. Then in Giovannis on Allure tipped 20$ between 2 of us for excellent service even though we technically had paid in the cover charge our tips.

 

The way we see it we should not reward the poor performers for average or poor performance but have the money in the pot to reward the exceptional people. The money is theirs to lose this way and they cant assume they are going to earn it unless they put some effort in.

 

I personally dont like the idea of entitlement of gratuity as to me it looks like Royal are just using it to subsidise their wage bill.

 

I have no issue with your line of thinking. It sounds reasonable to me. If someone says they remove part of an automatic gratuity and choose to give cash to those individuals who provide good services, that is also perfectly reasonable. I won't bash anyone for that.

 

If other workers are "hurt" by this in a collateral damage sort of way that points to a broken system, and again, an item that anyone who has an issue should address with those who set the framework up, not the guests who operate within it.

 

Maybe it is because I cruised well before automatic gratuities were a "thing" and it was common place to give cash gratuities to those who provided service, at ones own discretion. Guidelines were published to give an idea, but there was nothing mandatory. In those times the behind the scenes staff that never provided a face to face service to guests were, ostensibly, paid a going rate for the services they provided to their employers in maintaining the ships hotel facilities. To subject those in hotel maintenance positions to a tipped wage is, in my opinion, less than honorable.

 

But since I do not like the framework I do not bash those who just are charged automatically and go about their vacation; that's fine. I let the company know I don't like their system, even if I participate in it out of a compulsory fashion. I will say this, at no time in the past five years on any cruise line when I have asked someone providing me service which method they prefer has anyone ever told me anything but cash.

[Grandma Dazzles]

I have very mixed feelings about gratuity. I understand the majority of people working onboard live in situations less fortunate than many of the cruisers. Several times with MTD, we were only addressed and served by the assistant waiter. We went to complain in the dining room to the head waiter, but he couldn't be bothered to listen to us, let alone address the problem. Other times service has far surpassed our expectations and we have felt compelled to tip additionally. We also travel with a party of 4-5 in one stateroom. Given that roughly $7.50pp goes to the room steward, that easily is $30-$37.50 daily to clean the cabin, $210-262.50 weekly. I don't tip a land based hotel housekeeper that much on a nightly basis. If a room steward cleans 4 rooms (and I think I'm low balling this number), they make more weekly than many Americans do! I realize these people work hard, there is no part of customer service that is easy, but I do not feel it is my responsibility to subsidize individual paychecks. That responsibility falls entirely to the employer, RCCL.

 

Trying to figure your math. New service charge is $3.85 per person, per day for cabin attendants and $6.85 if in a suite. That works out to $15.40 for four people in a cabin or $27.40 for a suite, not the $30-$37.50 daily you listed.

[knittinggirl]

The employment contract spells out how much of their wage comes from base wage and how much from DSC. So, as an example, (all theoretical) a cabin steward is being paid $650/month in base wage ($34 more than the minimum). Of that, $300 is stipulated as being base wage, and $350 as coming from the DSC (as determined by the company's DSC distribution formula). Now, if someone removes the DSC, that gets broken down into the appropriate shares, and each employee gets a little less than the $350. Until this money drops below $314 for this employee, the company does not have to make up the difference.

 

So, I guess that yes, the DSC and the amount of the employees' base wage are put into the pot and the employees paid from it.

Do they have a deduction for room and board?

 

When I worked for YMCA of the Rockies, we got a low wage like $200/month, but we also got room and board. So, the $200/month ended up being gravy!

 

I'm guessing this is another situation where the crew are exempt from overtime. That is exempt from getting paid, not working it.

 

How does it work when we have more than two in a room?

Edited March 30, 2016 by knittinggirl