Questionable service dog on the Westerdam

[Oceanwench]

Our friends have a service dog. They've cruised on HAL a number of times.

The small area where the dog does his business is forward on the Promenade Deck.

The dog is trained to go in that small space - which is a couple of squares of turf.

He has a command, I think it's "hurry," and he knows it's time to go and be done!

 

DH is handicapped and in a wheelchair. When he was able to walk, he still had a handicapped parking placard. Some disabilities are not visible.

[chele670]

The manager of the grocery store where I see dogs told me they aren't allowed to ask about the credentials. Is that the law, or is it just

management's policy to avoid a confrontation ?

Yes, you can ask and the letter from the doctor states what they need to know and what they can't ask.

 

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[GUT2407]

Our supermarket just put up a "no dogs" sign. Finally. Too many people taking advantage. One gals dog on long leash peed on a bottled water display. I said your dog just peed on that display" and she said " is that so " and walked out of the store. Geez, some people but the point too many people ARE taking advantage and that irritates people like me that are allergic.

 

"No dogs" sign doesn't stop service dogs though.

[IndyDenise]

My husband is a manager in a major grocery store chain.

Just recently he kicked out a "service dog" and owner because the dog showed aggressive behavior and pooped on the floor .

 

He is allowed to ask what service the dog does but not what the disability is.. and if they say "comfort " animals out the door they go. Comfort animals are not protected by the ADA . Psychiatric dogs ( like for PTSD ) are protected.

 

 

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[chele670]

My husband is a manager in a major grocery store chain.

Just recently he kicked out a "service dog" and owner because the dog showed aggressive behavior and pooped on the floor .

 

He is allowed to ask what service the dog does but not what the disability is.. and if they say "comfort " animals out the door they go. Comfort animals are not protected by the ADA . Psychiatric dogs ( like for PTSD ) are protected.

 

 

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You are correct...emotional support animals are basically for travel and you cannot charge a pet deposit if leasing...the ADA does not allow the emotionals the same privileges as trained service animals.

 

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[3rdGenCunarder]

Do all service dogs wear a harness, or do some use a leash? I'm used to seeing guide dogs for blind people, and they have the harness with the loop instead of a leash. The dog knows that when the owner holds the harness, it's time to go to work. And most people know that when the dog is on the harness they shouldn't approach or pet it.

 

But, like the dog the OP saw, some alleged service dogs are kept on a long leash. I've seen one in the supermarket I go to, and that dog was acting like any other dog, sniffing around, not paying attention to the woman at the other end of the long leash. So how is that service?

 

The other dodge people use is to say the dog is "in training" to be a service dog. I saw one of those recently in a botanic garden that doesn't allow dogs. I asked a staff member I know about it and was told the dog was "in training." The woman was with a group of kids on a tour and was making NO attempt to control the dog. That isn't good training.

 

It's really a shame, because the real service dogs do so much good, But after you see a few cheaters, it does make you think twice about the others you see.

[wannagonow123]

Pull up the website from the Department of Justice on Service animals, and the short, one page document spells out everything. (2011 revision is most current)

 

Service animals recognized are dogs an miniature horses only.

 

Owners do not need to disclose their illness or reason, but they must answer what service the dog provides. Comfort animals are not service animals under the law. (except PTSD) The owner need to be specific when questioned by a representative of the company. The owners cannot say " it is my seizure dog". The owner must say as an example " the dog senses a seizure and alerts me by bumping my leg so I can take medications".

 

Service animals are not crated, or caged. They are not required to wear a vest, and documentation is from the agency that trained the dog, and the documentation will be specific as to the dogs training. If a person with a service animal says they have a note from their doctor, that is not proper documentation. The dog must always be controlled and under control.

 

Most business owners don't want to appear confrontational, and that is why the abuse is out of hand. Easier to turn a blind eye, no pun or offense meant.

[kazu]

We have dogs too and one of my dogs (my CC namesake - RIP) was highly trained and would sit motionless for hours while I raised $ for the SPCA while elevators, escalators and people abounded. He got lots of treats ;). BUT he was NOT a service dog. And I would not take him or any of my dogs, no matter how well behaved on a cruise. It's just plain selfish. It doesn't benefit them at all.

 

I get where Igraf is coming from since when I was at Embassy Suites there was a gentleman outside with a very yippy, yappy dog who was tearing at the leash. He told me she was a service dog and "working". I replied, shucks I can't pet her and he replied back "of course you can". When service dogs are working they are not to be petted. That dog was no more a service dog than I am. My puppy was better behaved than it (and that is saying something).

 

Moral of the story here is that there are people that abuse the service dog rule. Sad, but true. How Igraf describes it does not sound like a working service dog (or comfort dog) to me. It could well have been with an owner that was not following the instructions for "working" and "training" or it could have been a phony. Sadly those that abuse the system cause doubt in people's minds for other occasions. A true service dog (or any well behaved dog) is a glorious thing to see. Any other dogs should have their own vacation (at home or in a kennel) while the owners cruise.

[IndyDenise]

"In training" normally does not protect the dog's status ( individual States do differ)

 

You can train your own dog but it isn't yet considered a service animal so it should be banned from places that ban dogs .

 

A true service animal will stay close to the owner, watchful and not distracted.

 

I used to find the vests helpful because I would know to not pet the dog, it's working.

 

Now anyone can buy a vest and fake papers online.. and stick a growling pit bull on a leach and says it's a service animal.

 

 

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[jbobst]

Just got off the Westerdam today. Not sure if this past week cruise is the same one the OP was on, but I saw a few dogs on this cruise...one was a short stubby dog (I don't know breeds well enough to know if it was the same dog OP is talking about), but the dog was being pulled along by the owner around the buffet. There were a total of 3 dogs that I saw on this past cruise. In the past few years, there are always multiple dogs it seems on the cruises we go on. Really strange thing (I know, I know...don't judge...I don't know the details)

[TiogaCruiser]

 

 

But, like the dog the OP saw, some alleged service dogs are kept on a long leash. I've seen one in the supermarket I go to, and that dog was acting like any other dog, sniffing around, not paying attention to the woman at the other end of the long leash. So how is that service?

 

In that case it appears the dog is the recipient of the service.

[IndyDenise]

To be honest dogs/cats don't bother me in restaurants or stores IF they are well behaved.

 

In Paris it seems like everyone in a cafe has their pet with them .. but the dogs are so nonchalant and quiet you wouldn't know they are there.

 

I don't think it's because they are better dogs but because they have better parent owners.

 

Saw quite a few cats on the Metro and lounging around in stores too.

 

 

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[take us away]

Do all service dogs wear a harness, or do some use a leash? I'm used to seeing guide dogs for blind people, and they have the harness with the loop instead of a leash. The dog knows that when the owner holds the harness, it's time to go to work. And most people know that when the dog is on the harness they shouldn't approach or pet it.

 

It's really a shame, because the real service dogs do so much good, But after you see a few cheaters, it does make you think twice about the others you see.

 

All 5 service dogs that I know for epileptics, wheel-chair bound, blind people, have a vest that they wear with their emblem and a small pouch for their paperwork. The dogs are 'on duty' when they have their vest on and working when they are on lead. Some have leashes and some have harnesses, which I have only seen with blind people probably due to their situation and need for tactile response from the harness.

[kazu]

To be honest dogs/cats don't bother me in restaurants or stores IF they are well behaved.

 

In Paris it seems like everyone in a cafe has their pet with them .. but the dogs are so nonchalant and quiet you wouldn't know they are there.

 

I don't think it's because they are better dogs but because they have better parent owners.

 

 

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Bolding is mine. I totally agree.

 

We enjoy seeing dogs (and cats) during our travels and on a cruise ship IF they are well behaved ;)

[sprockie]

In defense of HAL, the paperwork required to bring a dog onboard is extensive and the request isn't taken lightly.

 

I see dogs in grocery stores almost daily and that drives me nuts, so completely understand the irritation with a possibly faux service dog. :)

 

We were once in Sweet Tomatoes somewhere in Florida and a woman was permitted to wheel her small dog into the restaurant in a stroller, park him at the table, take out a tupperware container of dog food and put it on the table and he ate there beside her. :rolleyes:

[IndyDenise]

A lot of the small lap type dogs are "sensor" animals. They can sense a epilepsy or diabetes attack.

 

I read about a nursing home cat who knew when residents were getting ready to die. The cat would stay by their side.

 

Then on the the next person.

 

There was also a news story a couple of years ago about a dog that sniffed out his owners Breast cancer and pretty much saved her life. I think now there is research on tumor sniffing dogs and using them for diagnosis.

 

Our furry friends are remarkable in what they are capable of and how they can help us.

 

That said, I hate that people try to game the system of service animals because it puts the real ones at risk of doubt.

 

 

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[Krazy Kruizers]

We have encountered service dogs on HAL ships over the years.

One was questionable -- the woman was dirty and so was her dog -- he smelled really bad.

About 4 years ago we met a couple who had a service dog. The couple looked perfectly normal. But the man was a diabetic. And the dog was trained to wake him when his sugar levels dropped too low. Which happened a couple of times. We met up with them on another cruise just last year. This time the concierges put up a special sign on their mail box.

I looked for that picture but can't find it.

[LMaxwell]

I see little Bella in a stroller every airport, sporting event, cruise, restaurant I go to. Entitled people who think they are furbabies.

 

That said, it is not illegal for management to ask what the dog is trained to do.

 

And as a private citizen it's not illegal for you to ask any question you wish. you may not like the response or may not get a response though.

Edited November 20, 2016 by LMaxwell

[doublebzz]

We were once in Sweet Tomatoes somewhere in Florida and a woman was permitted to wheel her small dog into the restaurant in a stroller, park him at the table, take out a tupperware container of dog food and put it on the table and he ate there beside her. :rolleyes:

 

Dog probably ate better than the owner.

[lais]

 

There was also a news story a couple of years ago about a dog that sniffed out his owners Breast cancer and pretty much saved her life. I think now there is research on tumor sniffing dogs and using them for diagnosis

 

 

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These dogs should be sitting in the doorway of every hospital.

[Tom O.]

I am a retired librarian, and before I retired, there was a meeting with all personnel at the Library. We me with library attorney to discuss service animals. The attorney told us that anyone who came into the library and claimed their animal (not just dogs) was a service animal had to be admitted. We were told to just take their word for it.

We were also told that you cannot ask why the person needs a service animal - that would be an invasion of privacy.

Of course, the attorney, was just trying to avoid lawsuits.

But, in a library, you can count on the person with an animal not causing too much trouble and eventually leaving. It is a little different on a cruise ship, where there are dining and sleeping facilities.

I just hope that the dog in question was a real service dog, and not the case of someone trying to get away with bringing their pet.

[durangoscots]

Even if your dog is a service dog, it can be removed from a ship, or plane, if it barks a lot, is aggressive or NOT HOUSEBROKEN... but, most ships or planes would be reluctant to remove a person and dog far from home.

 

A few years ago I did the Grand South America cruise and there was a service dog on that cruise for the entire 67 days. It was well behaved and obviously well traveled, but I really would have to question how much of a service it performed since the owner left the ship several times without the dog for full days tours leaving the dog behind with some sort of arrangement for its care.... or perhaps crated, I don't really know. The dog could not disembark at the Falklands or go with her human on some longer tours to National Parks. Nice dog, pretty well trained, but......

 

My own dogs are well trained ... but travel with them would be no vacation..

 

Susan

[IndyDenise]

I read the DisBoards (Disney) when I plan my travel to the happiest place on Earth.

 

The service dog owners would never ever willingly be without their animal. This animal could save their life. The care, cost, and upkeep required have to take priority..

 

So nah! I don't think someone with a real service animal would go off for days without it.

 

 

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[grayjay]

We were once in Sweet Tomatoes somewhere in Florida and a woman was permitted to wheel her small dog into the restaurant in a stroller, park him at the table, take out a tupperware container of dog food and put it on the table and he ate there beside her. :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps that was the one I saw in a stroller on Koningsdam being wheeled around on deck 7 by what I thought was the butler. No owner in sight....

It was a cute West Highland White and I just thought - "I hope that dog is allowed to run freely and doesn't have to sit in a stroller and/or its owners legs or handbag all its life."

[CILCIANRQTS]

The manager of the grocery store where I see dogs told me they aren't allowed to ask about the credentials. Is that the law, or is it just

management's policy to avoid a confrontation ?

 

Service animals do not require credentials.

You only have to be willing to answer two questions correctly, so many people apparently lie and claim their animal is a service animal so they can take it with them on trips.

Comfort animals are not service animals, so it's up to the cruise line as to what documentation, i.e. letter from a doctor, they require.

I have seen numerous animals that obviously we're not " working" in my travels.