Canadian mom on cruise jailed in Bahamas, mom of 15 years old called police after ...

[DirtyDawg]

There is blame all around with this situation. But the only blame that will count is the blame assessed by the legal system in the Bahamas after all the facts are presented. Despite all the back and forth aurguments here on CC none of us know how this case be adjudicated.

 

The only thing that I am pretty sure of is that this thread has gone on way longer than that encounter in the bathroom.

Edited January 21, 2017 by DirtyDawg

[ColinIllinois]

 

The only thing that I am pretty sure of is that this thread has gone on way longer than that encounter in the bathroom.

 

 

OH man....seriously laughing out loud.

[nissach]

there is blame all around with this situation. But the only blame that will count is the blame assessed by the legal system in the bahamas after all the facts are presented. Despite all the back and forth aurguments here on cc none of us know how this case be adjudicated.

 

The only thing that i am pretty sure of is that this thread has gone on way longer than that encounter in the bathroom.

 

lol!!!

[Lido_Deck]

Not quite...neither is denying they had sex. Her own mother says they went into the bathroom and 'did what they wanted to'.

 

 

No, it doesn't say they admitted to having sex in the bathroom. The woman just said he told her he was 18.

 

As far as we know they just played tonsil hockey in the bathroom. Perhaps that what they "wanted to?"

[$hip$hape]

There is blame all around with this situation.

But the only blame that will count is the blame assessed by the legal system in the Bahamas

after all the facts are presented.

Despite all the back and forth arguments here on CC none of us know how this case be adjudicated.

 

The only thing that I am pretty sure of is that

this thread has gone on way longer than that encounter in the bathroom.

Make a copy now, for I assume it(this thread) will soon be deleted.:rolleyes:

Edited January 21, 2017 by $hip$hape

[Sotermarler]

The sad thing is that a 23 yr old and three kids lives are most likely ruined by a lying 15 yr old. Other than ID ing this kid, she would have no reason not to believe him, appearance and in an adult area.

I usually side against the perpetrators, but this time I'm against the victim.

 

 

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[Driberif1]

Everyone keeps saying he was in a bar area and should not have been, All of us have been on cruises and we all should know that almost all the "bar areas" are common areas with arcades and bowling and darts and pool etc. It is not like mom took him out on the town to a bar and was drinking. For example O'sheehans on the boat is literally 6 feet from the darts and pool tables and 10 feet from video games. Unfortunately no matter how big a ship may be there is only limited room so the bars tend to mix in with multiple kid areas also. (and also even with parents permission they can not drink unless over 18)

[roger001]

Not to make light of this but how many guys read that story and thought "damn, why did that never happen to me". :D

 

To someone who has never been a fifteen year old guy, I don't doubt they think "horrible, shameful, so harmful". But to this former fifteen year old guy, and I'm guessing about every other, at fifteen it would have been "yes...please, please". At one time this would have been a "way to go". Generational attitudes have evolved. And yes...guys and girls are held to different standards. For my daughter and any fifteen year old girl...hell no! But back to guys... at one time, drinking and driving and puffing away on cigarettes was a social thing to do. If he looked and said he was eighteen, let the mom go.

[mjkacmom]

Everyone keeps saying he was in a bar area and should not have been, All of us have been on cruises and we all should know that almost all the "bar areas" are common areas with arcades and bowling and darts and pool etc. It is not like mom took him out on the town to a bar and was drinking. For example O'sheehans on the boat is literally 6 feet from the darts and pool tables and 10 feet from video games. Unfortunately no matter how big a ship may be there is only limited room so the bars tend to mix in with multiple kid areas also. (and also even with parents permission they can not drink unless over 18)

 

The news report stated he was at a bar area of the casino, which is 18+

 

Karine Gagne was on the Norwegian Cruise Line ship with her co-workers at a company that sells adult-themed products when she met the teen at a bar and casino area on the boat.

 

Shortly after meeting the teen, who was reportedly a 6ft 1in American with a beard, Gagne allegedly had sex with him in the bathroom.

 

The teen's mother was present at the bar when she saw her son exit the bathroom with Gagne and immediately called police, according to CTV Montreal.

[tmilak]

If this is the NCL Sky as assumed and you look at the deck plans for International Deck 7 there is only one bar in the area and it is the casino bar and there is a set of bathrooms very close by. As others have suggested about other common areas nearby i.e. O'Sheehans there are none on this ship. So if this is the Sky the child and parent knew where they were and should have known this is an adults only area. I would not expect to find a 15 year old in this area.

[dgparent]

at one time, drinking and driving and puffing away on cigarettes was a social thing to do. If he looked and said he was eighteen, let the mom go.

 

Hey I resemble that remark !! When I was a kid in my little town I grew up in in Canada there were no 15 year olds with beards that were 6' 1" not even close, just amazes me how old kids look these days.

[david_sobe]

I cant believe how many are debating if he was drinking or not. That is not relevant at all. Both of them could have been thrown off the ship for the behavior in the bathroom. It was a mutual thing but at age 15 the law does not give you consent legally. I point out the hypocrisy if the roles were reversed. There are lots of 15 year old girls that look 18 or 19 with make up. Imagine if an adult man had sex with a 15 year old girl in the casino bathroom. Everyone would be looking to kill the man. The mother of the kid had a right to be outraged even if he was the aggressor or not.

Edited January 21, 2017 by david_sobe

[mjkacmom]

I cant believe how many are debating if he was drinking or not. That is not relevant at all. Both of them could have been thrown off the ship for the behavior in the bathroom. It was a mutual thing but at age 15 the law does not give you consent legally. I point out the hypocrisy if the roles were reversed. There are lots of 15 year old girls that look 18 or 19 with make up. Imagine if an adult man had sex with a 15 year old girl in the casino bathroom. Everyone would be looking to kill the man. The mother of the kid had a right to be outraged even if he was the aggressor or not.

 

If a 15 year old girl lies and tricks a man into committing a crime, then she is in the wrong.

[txagfan]

Would you want him hanging around your 15 year old daughter?

 

 

 

You know how I know you were never a teenage boy? [emoji23]

 

 

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[LrgPizza]

I have seen tall guys at 15 but don't recall every seeing a 6'1" 15 year old. You are still growing at 15. This "kid" is probably going to be 6'5" and play for the Lakers.

 

FWIW, my son hit 6'2" at age 13. He just turned 14. (He hates basketball. He's a tall musician. :D)

[sjbdtz]

Surely, if she denies having had sex - "we kissed, he gave me hickeys".... then it's he said, she said....

 

The only way she gets convicted, is if she admits having sex and tries the "but he said he was 18".

 

 

If it goes to court, they could BOTH deny anything happened.

 

 

Then the woman could sue the mother for damages related to the false arrest.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[Lido_Deck]

You know how I know you were never a teenage boy? [emoji23]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Dude...I was as bad as they come when I was 15/16 years old. I was the guy parents warned their daughters about.

[fshagan]

The kid will be bragging about this for a long time. It reads like a fantasy from a reddit post.

 

15 is certainly old enough, historically, to have consensual sex (the historical age for marriage was puberty, and a beard certainly shows he was well into puberty). It's not like she used roofies on him and held him down and forced him. Unless she gave him a STD, there is no harm done to him; no social stigma, nothing. It is only a law that arbitrarily put a number on the page and he lied about HIS number. If the law said 14 was the age of consent the mother would still be raising her children.

 

But yeah, there are victims. There are three children who suffer the social stigma and loss of their mother who sits in a foreign jail cell. There are tax payers who will pay for the raising of those three children.

[dgparent]

I cant believe how many are debating if he was drinking or not. That is not relevant at all.

 

It is relevant - if you see someone drinking you can reasonably assume they are of age. If I see someone flying a commercial plane I am flying on I assume they are a pilot.

 

So going by your logic if I went to a bar in the Canada, where the legal age is 18 [in some Provinces], and met a girl who was drinking and she told me she was 19 then after we had sex her mother called the cops because she was only 15 I would be completely at fault. Even though she was drinking underage at a establishment you need to be 18 to enter and she told me she was 19, got you. I think at some point "reasonable judgement" needs to be a factor.

 

If the case really is that NCL allowed a 15 year old in a area where you need to 18 and that his mother was allowing him to drink, as some stories have suggested, if I am this 23 year old women I sue the asses off of NCL.

 

The allowed a 15 year old into a adults only area and allowed him to drink.

Edited January 22, 2017 by dgparent

[Lido_Deck]

This thread is certainly more entertaining than Chicken and Waffles. :p

[Two Wheels Only]

If a 15 year old girl lies and tricks a man into committing a crime, then she is in the wrong.

 

Everyone agrees that it is wrong for the 15 year-old to claim to be older. In the Bahamas and most US states, the 15 year-old being "wrong" or a liar is irrelevant to the case. There are SOME states that allow the defendant to prove that he/she reasonably believed that the minor was of legal age.

 

Surely, if she denies having had sex - "we kissed, he gave me hickeys".... then it's he said, she said....

 

The only way she gets convicted, is if she admits having sex and tries the "but he said he was 18".

I did read one news article that stated that the defendant denied having sex with the teen.

 

For sake of forum debate, we are all going by the assumption that they did have sex in the restroom.

 

 

If it goes to court, they could BOTH deny anything happened.

True, but the prosecutor in the Bahamas doesn't need the teen in order to pursue the case.

 

 

Then the woman could sue the mother for damages related to the false arrest.

It's unlikely that she would be successful against NCL. She might have a case against the teen's mother who reported it to NCL. The mother of the teen may have jumped to a conclusion which NCL acted upon.

 

It is only a law that arbitrarily put a number on the page and he lied about HIS number. If the law said 14 was the age of consent the mother would still be raising her children.

If people were debating whether or not the law was just, you'd have a point. The law is what it is. If the law was 13, the same argument could be made about a 12 year-old who is almost 13. The law on the books is 16 in the Bahamas.

 

But yeah, there are victims. There are three children who suffer the social stigma and loss of their mother who sits in a foreign jail cell. There are tax payers who will pay for the raising of those three children.

 

Jared Fogel also has kids (who suffer social stigma). It didn't help his case nor should it help the 23 year-old in this one. Again, in most states knowing or not knowing the minor is a minor is irrelevant.

 

It is relevant - if you see someone drinking you can reasonably assume they are of age.

Again, in the court of law in most states, it isn't relevant.

 

So going by your logic if I went to a bar in the Canada, where the legal age is 18 [in some Provinces], and met a girl who was drinking and she told me she was 19 then after we had sex her mother called the cops because she was only 15 I would be completely at fault.

This isn't a question of "fault". In the above scenario, you would have (unknowingly) broken the law. It might work as a defense (as it might in the Bahamas case) but the process would have to play out. It wouldn't be as simple as "...you're free to go, you probably thought that she was old enough..."

 

 

Even though she was drinking underage at a establishment you need to be 18 to enter and she told me she was 19, got you. I think at some point "reasonable judgement" needs to be a factor.

See above. It might work but it isn't guaranteed even if the 15 year-old lied and used a fake ID to enter the bar. It sucks (no pun intended :p ) but that's the law.

 

If the case really is that NCL allowed a 15 year old in a area where you need to 18 and that his mother was allowing him to drink, as some stories have suggested, if I am this 23 year old women I sue the asses off of NCL.

Beating NCL in court is unlikely in a case like this.

Look at it from their point of view...

 

There is a contract that guests adhere to that states that "Norwegian Cruise Line guests are expected to be responsible for their actions at all times,...". If the mother or son violated the terms of the Guest Conduct Policy, NCL isn't responsible.

 

If a guest reports a crime against a minor, NCL is going to act and get the police involved. If NCL had ignored the mother, the mother might have a case against NCL.

 

The allowed a 15 year old into a adults only area and allowed him to drink.

a) we don't know that. Someone would have to prove that NCL OK'd him being there. They don't have guards at the casino entrance checking IDs

b) we don't know if he drank anything

c) we don't know that if he was drinking, who gave him the drink. If the 23 year-old went to the bar and got a drink and walked back and gave it to the 15 year-old, NCL can't be held accountable.

 

There are way too many unknowns but the biggest crime is the (alleged) "Age of Consent" violation.

[Halifax Dude]

Love all the legal eagles on this thread. You people have far too much time on your hands.

[drneal]

Was the ship in international waters at the time of the incident?

As the ship is registered in the Bahamas does that mean that US or Canadian laws have no bearing?

What role did the Captain have?

Does the cruise line have any responsibility to look into the facts prior to having their passenger

removed from the ship and jailed based on the accusation of the mother who was not present during the encounter?

If so, do YOU now need to worry about sitting near a minor in the hot tub for fear that you can be accused of misconduct?

https://www.quora.com/How-do-cruise-ships-handle-crimes-on-board

[#55worktoplay]

 

If the case really is that NCL allowed a 15 year old in a area where you need to 18 and that his mother was allowing him to drink, as some stories have suggested, if I am this 23 year old women I sue the asses off of NCL.

 

The allowed a 15 year old into a adults only area and allowed him to drink.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. She is going to have thousands upon thousands of legal costs to prove (IMO) her innocence so they should pay for those.

[luddite]

Not to make light of this but how many guys read that story and thought "damn, why did that never happen to me". :D

 

Pretty much every guy thought that.