Two M-Class Ships for Sale?

[garyl62]

We discussed with the Future Cruises rep about potentially having our 2019 Millie sailing be cancelled by Celebrity due to the sale of the ship and we were told that they will have another ship to move our booking to if that is the case.

 

Since ships aren't just sitting around idle, nor can be purchased and built in short timeframes, I don't see how that would be possible.

 

And it wasn't the case with previous sales.

 

It would also take some time to put together the purchase agreement, financing and delivery schedule for a sale so there would be plenty of time to determine the logistics of moving ships around, eliminating charters or some sailings. I doubt a sale would be completed and all those sailing associated with that ship just canceled, of course I haven't personally been involved in such an activity so just like everyone else, I'm just speculating from my armchair at home :)

[hopeless holiday booker]

We were booking a future cruise on our recent cruise and they wouldn't take a booking for Infinity for 2019.

[hcat]

We were booking a future cruise on our recent cruise and they wouldn't take a booking for Infinity for 2019.

 

Interesting....just made final payment for Infinity Oct 2017,,hoping that's a go.

 

IMHO, the ship is Okay...(on it recently, ) but it is ready for retirement

[Pitboss32]

We were booking a future cruise on our recent cruise and they wouldn't take a booking for Infinity for 2019.

 

Infinity is open for sailings thru April 18th, 2019. The remainder of 2019, for any ships, won't be released usually until Mid December thru the 1st/2nd week of January.

[C 2 C]

 

IMHO, the ship is Okay...(on it recently, ) but it is ready for retirement

 

I retired 20 years ago and I'm still fit to travel...:')

[Orator]

I retired 20 years ago and I'm still fit to travel...:')

How often have you been in Dry Dock for a refit?

[dkjretired]

How often have you been in Dry Dock for a refit?

 

Open heart surgery count....

[shipshape sam]

Celebrity is now aware of the rumor and as I said before should get ahead of the story by having someone like Celebrity Cruise issuing a denial of the rumor. Without that, speculation will continue and that's not good for Celebrity.

 

I fully agree! I would be very hesitant to book an M class cruise. I think I can say "I would not book an M class ship right now." seeing how they treat customers when they charter a cruise, knowing how it can be disruptive to many customers.

[hcat]

:halo:

I retired 20 years ago and I'm still fit to travel...:')

 

Good one but I hope you have not had as much wear and tear as Infinity...nice ship but outdated in many areas..same for the Summit.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Since this entire thread is based on speculating, I can join in: Celebrity has no need to sell the M-class ships, even if they feel that 13 is an unlucky number (!). Because RCI is in the process of combining and re-vitalizing the fleets of Pullmantur and CdF -- a couple of M-ships would be a major upgrade to that fleet.

[Downdie]

Since this entire thread is based on speculating, I can join in: Celebrity has no need to sell the M-class ships, even if they feel that 13 is an unlucky number (!). Because RCI is in the process of combining and re-vitalizing the fleets of Pullmantur and CdF -- a couple of M-ships would be a major upgrade to that fleet.

Let's get something straight here. RCCL ( the parent company) owns all the ships in it's diverse fleet, RCI, Celebrity, Azamara, Pullmantur, Tui Germany, Tui UK (Thomsons). It provides brand new ships primarily to RCI and Celebrity and now Tui Germany, but hand me down ships to those lines where it has minority ownership, Pullmantur, Tui UK, and probably Tui Germany, mainly transferred (not sold) from RCI and Celebrity, the exception being Century sold to a Chinese outfit.

Such ship transfers have occasionally gone the other way. The Empress was re-transferred from Pullmantur to RCI for it's Cuban venture and the Journey and Quest were transferred from Pullmantur several years ago to start up Azamara Cruises. So, not many ship sales really.

[Saab4444]

Let's get something straight here. RCCL ( the parent company) owns all the ships in it's diverse fleet, RCI, Celebrity, Azamara, Pullmantur, Tui Germany, Tui UK (Thomsons). It provides brand new ships primarily to RCI and Celebrity and now Tui Germany, but hand me down ships to those lines where it has minority ownership, Pullmantur, Tui UK, and probably Tui Germany, mainly transferred (not sold) from RCI and Celebrity, the exception being Century sold to a Chinese outfit.

 

Such ship transfers have occasionally gone the other way. The Empress was re-transferred from Pullmantur to RCI for it's Cuban venture and the Journey and Quest were transferred from Pullmantur several years ago to start up Azamara Cruises. So, not many ship sales really.

 

 

 

Royal does not own TUI ships, they have been sold and only techical and nautical ship management for Senior Officers remained with Celebrity.

 

 

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[Saab4444]

Interesting....just made final payment for Infinity Oct 2017,,hoping that's a go.

 

 

 

IMHO, the ship is Okay...(on it recently, ) but it is ready for retirement

 

 

 

Ready for retirement is ridiculous. M class ships are only about 15 years old and such ships are built for at least 30 years of service.

 

There are much older ships around that are in perfect shape and going strong. This included luxury class vessels like Crystal Symhony, Europa and Seven Seas Mariner.

 

Most luxury hotels on land are much older as well.

 

 

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[upwarduk]

----and Celebrity, the exception being Century sold to a Chinese outfit.

 

The sale went through very quickly though!

 

We were informed in September 2014 that she would no longer be transferred to the French cruise company Croisieres de France (CDF) in April 2015.

Our booked cruise was Dubai to Rome, then she was going into Dry Dock for the refit.

Edited July 14, 2017 by upwarduk

[DYKWIA]

Ready for retirement is ridiculous. M class ships are only about 15 years old and such ships are built for at least 30 years of service.

 

There are much older ships around that are in perfect shape and going strong. This included luxury class vessels like Crystal Symhony, Europa and Seven Seas Mariner.

 

Most luxury hotels on land are much older as well.

 

 

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I feel pretty sure that if the right amount of money is offered every ship in every fleet (even those being built) is for sale. I'm sure I read that Carnival in the past has several times moved a ship under construction from one company to another.

 

A hotel on land is different - they don't usually have to contend with Seawater and rust. Other factors come into play as well - such as land values. In Hong Kong profitable and popular hotels such as the 6 year old Crowne Plaza are believed to be earmarked for demolition because the landowner realises they can make more money by rebuilding offices on the same land

 

I remember talking to a senior executive of a major car hire company a couple of years ago and asking how the company really made any money from hiring me a car for £30 a day for a couple of days. He was quite open and said the public think our business is about hiring cars, The real money is buying them in bulk at the right price and selling them on at the right time.

[dkjretired]

Let's get something straight here. RCCL ( the parent company) owns all the ships in it's diverse fleet, RCI, Celebrity, Azamara, Pullmantur, Tui Germany, Tui UK (Thomsons). It provides brand new ships primarily to RCI and Celebrity and now Tui Germany, but hand me down ships to those lines where it has minority ownership, Pullmantur, Tui UK, and probably Tui Germany, mainly transferred (not sold) from RCI and Celebrity, the exception being Century sold to a Chinese outfit.

Such ship transfers have occasionally gone the other way. The Empress was re-transferred from Pullmantur to RCI for it's Cuban venture and the Journey and Quest were transferred from Pullmantur several years ago to start up Azamara Cruises. So, not many ship sales really.

 

Minor point, Journey and Quest actually went directly to Celebrity first before they started up Azamara. They took over for Horizon and Zenith the first summer in Bermuda and to my knowledge was the only time they had children's programs on board.

[upwarduk]

Minor point, Journey and Quest actually went directly to Celebrity first before they started up Azamara. They took over for Horizon and Zenith the first summer in Bermuda and to my knowledge was the only time they had children's programs on board.

 

Were they known as Quest & Journey then?

We started cruising on Celebrity in 2003 (Infinity) and later Galaxy 2005, Mercury 2008. I remember Millenium class ships being launched and names of Horoizon & Zenith, but no others!

[Spf12]

Were they known as Quest & Journey then?

We started cruising on Celebrity in 2003 (Infinity) and later Galaxy 2005, Mercury 2008. I remember Millenium class ships being launched and names of Horoizon & Zenith, but no others!

Yes,they were Journey and Quest.I sailed on the Journey to Bermuda the summer that they replaced Horizon and Zenith.

[dkjretired]

Were they known as Quest & Journey then?

We started cruising on Celebrity in 2003 (Infinity) and later Galaxy 2005, Mercury 2008. I remember Millenium class ships being launched and names of Horoizon & Zenith, but no others!

 

It was just that one summer, originally they were planned to stay with Celebrity but they started Azamara pretty quickly. Prior to that summer Zenith and Horizon were both going to Bermuda in the summer, one left NYC on Saturday and the other on Sunday. We did both in different years.

 

Journey and Quest both came from Renaissance Cruises which went out of Business. Ironically, Renaissance Cruise had I think 8 fairly new ships and in the late 90s were sort of ahead of their times, no children and no smoking.

Edited July 14, 2017 by dkjretired

[hcat]

Ready for retirement is ridiculous. M class ships are only about 15 years old and such ships are built for at least 30 years of service.

 

There are much older ships around that are in perfect shape and going strong. This included luxury class vessels like Crystal Symhony, Europa and Seven Seas Mariner.

 

Most luxury hotels on land are much older as well.

 

 

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We found Summit, Infinity & Connie to all have some nice upgrades and are kept clean, but some lounge areas, furniture and furnishings have a dated look and feel. Bathroom tile not updated , the interior Persian Gardens often have items not working, ,,Retirement may be the wrong word but we feel they are past their prime and we prefer S class. Just a matter of choice/ preference,

[BSinPNS]

It has been several years since we sailed on a Solstice Class since we find the more interesting itineraries on the M class. We were on Millennium in February and found the ship in excellent condition. Can't say as much for Summit which we were on last month. That said, I think the M-class ships will be more difficult to unload/sell than earlier ones due to their heavy reliance on gas turbines which are not as efficient as the diesels powering the older and newer ships. The turbines main selling point is the additional space that is available due to their compact nature along with reliability and easy repair/replacement. As ships have gotten larger and fuel more expensive, the diesels have moved back into the propulsion market.

[Downdie]

It was just that one summer, originally they were planned to stay with Celebrity but they started Azamara pretty quickly. Prior to that summer Zenith and Horizon were both going to Bermuda in the summer, one left NYC on Saturday and the other on Sunday. We did both in different years.

 

Journey and Quest both came from Renaissance Cruises which went out of Business. Ironically, Renaissance Cruise had I think 8 fairly new ships and in the late 90s were sort of ahead of their times, no children and no smoking.

Journey and Quest were both owned by Pullmantur who had acquired them from the bankrupt Renaissance and sailed them as Blue Dream and Blue Star or vice versa.

These two ships were the reason that RCCL bought Pullmantur, cruise line, travel agency and 4 plane airline(747's) . In return Pullmantur received the bigger but much older Zenith from Celebrity, and a year or so later the ex Celebrity ship Horizon, bigger too and even older from the British line Island cruises.

I think the Spanish got screwed. In fairness they also got Sovereign of the Seas and Monarch of the Seas from RCI.

[dkjretired]

Journey and Quest were both owned by Pullmantur who had acquired them from the bankrupt Renaissance and sailed them as Blue Dream and Blue Star or vice versa.

These two ships were the reason that RCCL bought Pullmantur, cruise line, travel agency and 4 plane airline(747's) . In return Pullmantur received the bigger but much older Zenith from Celebrity, and a year or so later the ex Celebrity ship Horizon, bigger too and even older from the British line Island cruises.

I think the Spanish got screwed. In fairness they also got Sovereign of the Seas and Monarch of the Seas from RCI.

 

Actually, Horizon went first and was built in the same year as Journey and Quest, 1990. Zenith was built in 92.

[riclop]

Bring on the new.

[The_Big_M]

Let's get something straight here. RCCL ( the parent company) owns all the ships in it's diverse fleet, RCI, Celebrity, Azamara, Pullmantur, Tui Germany, Tui UK (Thomsons). It provides brand new ships primarily to RCI and Celebrity and now Tui Germany, but hand me down ships to those lines where it has minority ownership, Pullmantur, Tui UK, and probably Tui Germany, mainly transferred (not sold) from RCI and Celebrity, the exception being Century sold to a Chinese outfit.

 

Century wasn't really an exception either.

 

RCL formed a joint venture to operate Century. Basically it gave them another avenue into the Chinese market, in conjunction with a local operator.