Rome-Dont be afraid to say No!

[Lizzybell1960]

Hello fellow cruisers-we just got back from 2 weeks in the Med, 1 week on NCL Epic. The cruise was great, port intensive & hot. The one port we did a tour was into Rome for the day. Its well worth the money & effort to see such an amazing city.

 

When it came time for lunch, we let the driver know we are on a very limited budget, going as far as to say "we want to be able to tip you at the end of the day" etc. He insisted on taking us to the most amazing place, the best pasta in all of Europe etc.

 

Despite our warnings of our limited budget, the driver took us to an out of the way restaurant that was deserted...except for a waiting staff. The four of us asked to see a menu and before those were handed over, the sparking water had already been opened. WTH?

 

The prices were very high, far more than we had paid for any other meal the prev 7 days so we were all upset, esp me.

 

I pointed to our driver across the room and asked him to come over to our group. As he walked up to me and asked what was wrong, I replied " I am too old for this bull****, why in the world did you bring us here? I feel very taken advantage of after our conversation with you in the car about prices. We are leaving" With this, we heard the employees swear while our driver claimed he had never had anyone reject this restaurant before.

 

We had him drop us off 1/2 mile away, had a wonderful & affordable lunch with beer and wine for 4 for less than the cost of 1 meal at his "recommended place"

 

I had heard this can happen and really wasn't too surprised, don't be afraid to say NO to the recommended place if for whatever reason you don't like it, esp if you have a conversation with the driver beforehand.

 

For the rest of the afternoon, he was great, prompt and polite. We got back to the ship in plenty of time, and even asked me to leave a positive review which I found amusing.

[euro cruiser]

Good for you for standing up for yourself.

 

I have worked with a variety of tour directors and drivers over the years in Italy (and elsewhere). I'm always 100% clear that I will not tolerate any stops for shopping and that while I'm willing to hear his/her recommendation for a place to eat, the decision will be mine (I usually know ahead of time where I want to eat, with a back up in case it turns out to be their closing day).

 

Even with all that, I occasionally run up against a tour director or driver who does his own thing. I remember an epic dressing down with one in Sorrento a few years ago when I'd just had enough (this was a tour director who was with us for an entire week). He took it well and we even had dinner together the last night ... I got the impression that he was used to pushing the boundaries and wasn't upset at all when someone pushed back.

[Keith1010]

You did well.

 

We usually do the research ahead of time.

 

If we have limited time we have even had the ship (some do it and some don't) make us a lunch to take off the ship and have eaten it in the vehicle of have them stop for a short break where we sit outside.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience as it is a reminder about what could happen on a tour.

 

Keith

[fabnfortysomething]

reminds me of our first cruise experience where we were on a private tour of 7 made up from our roll call

 

morning was wonderful and saw lots of Rome

then our driver asked us if we wanted an "inexpensive bowl of pasta" for our lunch-we agreed

 

he took us to an admittedly beautiful setting but as we opened the menus entrees started about 20 euros-that's not "inexpensive" to me

 

we all chose the simplest dish on the menu and declined wine

at this point we agreed we had been suckered so ate quickly and rejoined our guide who was having a siesta in his van and was surprised to see us so soon

 

we made our displeasure known and he bent over backwards for the rest of the day

 

from then on I make sure if we are sharing a tour with strangers that we communicate between ourselves before the tour what we all expect re sightseeing time versus eating time .

Then it's easier to put foot down if trying to guide us to a friends overpriced restaurant

[mskaufman]

We usually tell the guide that we want to spend our time seeing things, not eating. I usually figure on a large breakfast and dinner on the ship and snacks (lots of gelato) while on the go.

[cruisemom42]

We usually tell the guide that we want to spend our time seeing things, not eating. I usually figure on a large breakfast and dinner on the ship and snacks (lots of gelato) while on the go.

 

Same here.

 

One does occasionally have to say no. It's happened to me more often with the "kickback" shopping stops that guides try to impose. Turkey is the worst but it does happen in Italy too (e.g., the cameo factory in Naples or the wooden box shop in Sorrento).

[Clarea]

Thanks for sharing the experience.

[slidergirl]

This is one of the reasons I will go it alone unless it is someplace that is only doable via an excursion. The ubiquitous stop at "Europe's best pasta", the alabaster factory, the papyrus store, etc. I wonder - if I had to take one of those excursions - could I tell them I wanted to eat at <insert name of specific restaurant> and then not have them bother me or try to rip me off their favorite restaurant where they get their kickbacks. It isn't hard to do a little research ahead of time and find some cool little restaurants with all the websites and apps available (NOT counting Trip Advisor) instead of relying on what you are given...

[mskaufman]

Same here.

 

One does occasionally have to say no. It's happened to me more often with the "kickback" shopping stops that guides try to impose. Turkey is the worst but it does happen in Italy too (e.g., the cameo factory in Naples or the wooden box shop in Sorrento).

 

Willing to put up with a short stop for a clean and free rest room. But, a tour guide should be receptive to the wishes from a small group.

[Carolyn R]

On the other hand, I always try to incorporate a leisurely lunch of local food with wine into my day.

[marazul]

Lizzybell-

 

Just as it is ok to name tour guides you had a good experience with, it is ok to post the names of those you did not like and say why not. That is what CC is here for, so that others can make informed decisions.

 

And it is ok when you book an excursion and when you meet the driver to say "no shopping" or "no cameo, woodwork, whatever demonstration" and mean it.

 

For meals, follow slidergirl's suggestion of having a place picked out and say where you want to eat. Or simply say "I don't want a full meal, just a quick stop for panini or pizza, no restaurant." And look at the menus posted by the door before you sit down at a table.

 

Of course, this works with private excursions. If you go on a group tour you are at the mercy of the company.

[mskaufman]

On a group tour the description usually tells you whether lunch is included and, if not, what will be expected (e.g., lunch on your own). We went with SPB to Berlin and the group went into a restaurant for a sit down lunch and three of us went to a falafel stand and met them 90 minutes later. Were able to do some extra walking around and taking pictures.

[euro cruiser]

On a group tour the description usually tells you whether lunch is included and, if not, what will be expected (e.g., lunch on your own). We went with SPB to Berlin and the group went into a restaurant for a sit down lunch and three of us went to a falafel stand and met them 90 minutes later. Were able to do some extra walking around and taking pictures.

I always encourage people to do things like this but so often we get ourselves mentally tied up in the "I already paid for it" syndrome. While that's true, you also need to consider the value of your vacation time. Giving up whatever small amount of your tour cost that is represented by an included meal pales by comparison with what you've paid to get there in the first place, plus the cost of your precious vacation time. If there's something you'd rather do, as mskaufman says, go for it!

 

Side note: When I first started developing tours for not-for-profit groups I would often include all dinners in the package. I got feedback after a Tuscany trip that folks would have liked to eat at some of the restaurants in town and would have, if dinners were not included. I was floored - after all, no one's rear end was nailed to the chairs - but thereafter I have always left several evenings without included meals.

[fabnfortysomething]

On the other hand, I always try to incorporate a leisurely lunch of local food with wine into my day.

 

and that's great if that is important to you

the point is that a good tour guide should check with the group what they expect out of the day and accommodate rather than imposing unwanted stops

 

for some people what you describe above would be ideal to a lot of people

 

on the other hand I prefer sightseeing and especially in a hot climate all I want during the day is a snack and plenty of water to rehydrate

[marazul]

the point is that a good tour guide should check with the group what they expect out of the day and accommodate rather than imposing unwanted stops

 

That would be a very rare tour guide. The great majority have "go to" places where they (or their bosses) get a kickback. If you look at tour descriptions in many reviews in CC, you will see that they always say :"Tour guide X took us to a really typical restaurant named Y." It is always the same restaurant for the same guide. If you don't care or have no requirements, that is fine. If you do, speak up.

[fabnfortysomething]

That would be a very rare tour guide. The great majority have "go to" places where they (or their bosses) get a kickback. If you look at tour descriptions in many reviews in CC, you will see that they always say :"Tour guide X took us to a really typical restaurant named Y." It is always the same restaurant for the same guide. If you don't care or have no requirements, that is fine. If you do, speak up.

 

and I think that sums up the original post-if you have particular requirements speak up

from some poor experiences I now always communicate via email with the tour company in detail what we want ie food versus sightseeing and print out so can show to tour guide on the day and make sure we get the day we want

 

actually we usually give it a half hour into the tour to check whether the guide has actually read those emails or does check with us re our expectations

 

after that if they are obviously going on their own agenda I go into touristzila mode lol

[euro cruiser]

That would be a very rare tour guide. The great majority have "go to" places where they (or their bosses) get a kickback. If you look at tour descriptions in many reviews in CC, you will see that they always say :"Tour guide X took us to a really typical restaurant named Y." It is always the same restaurant for the same guide. If you don't care or have no requirements, that is fine. If you do, speak up.

There is a quid pro quo for tour directors, guides and drivers in many places. If they bring in a group, they eat and drink free, so they go to the same places again and again. Now, if the food wasn't good they'd change to a different place, because a free meal isn't worth an unhappy client, but that's how it works for many in the industry.

 

I have hired with tour directors who don't work this way, however. Most are pretty circumspect about their relationships and agreements, a few are pretty bold about it all.

[lisiamc]

We took a tour in Turkey organised by a fellow cruiser. She had agreed with the rest of the group, and with the guide where we were going, and where we were NOT going, such as rug factories and gift shops. So when the guide tried to persuade us that we really did want to tour a rug factory, she was amazing. Very tactful, very low key, and very, very firm. The battle went on for some minutes, but she won. :D

[mskaufman]

We did a four person tour in Provence. We told the driver we did not want to go to a restaurant for lunch and he did not have a problem with it. Wound up getting paninis at this place.

 

[easyboy]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Glad we were not in your situation before.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[sippican]

That would be a very rare tour guide. The great majority have "go to" places where they (or their bosses) get a kickback. If you look at tour descriptions in many reviews in CC, you will see that they always say :"Tour guide X took us to a really typical restaurant named Y." It is always the same restaurant for the same guide. If you don't care or have no requirements, that is fine. If you do, speak up.

 

I have arranged numerous private tours for myself, fellow travellers and CC roll call members. I do not think it is a "very rare" tour guide who will listen to your requests, do their best to fullfill them, and remain flexible throughout the day. I also do not agreee that the "great majority" go to places where they, or their bosses, get kick backs. I'd really be curious to know just how many companies do get compensation from vendors. I'm sure it happens. One only has to look at the cruise ship sponsored tour stops and shopping guides! Of course a good guide should be able to recommend preferred shops, restaurants, etc. We've had some of our best meals that way. I certainly have places that I recommend over and over to visiting friends and family.

I guess I've been really fortunate to find those rrare tour guides. Of thirty or so private tours I've only had two less than satisfactory experiences, and in one of those, the guide never showed up, the other in Mallorca was a complete disaster.

It pays to do your homework before booking, and follow up with the provider once booked.

[euro cruiser]

In my experience with restaurants the only kickback is a free meal for the driver and guide.

 

With shopping venues, the larger bus stop kind do offer a commission to agencies. For individual guides it's more like favors extended. For example, one of the most egregious tour directors I worked with ate and drank free everywhere we stopped throughout the week. We didn't have any shopping stops but my birthday happened to fall during the day we were on Capri and at dinner he presented me with a bottle of limoncello. I would swear on my kids that he did not pay for it, it was probably from a shop he had developed a relationship with over the years. He brings them clients when he can, they comp him a bottle every now and then.

[slidergirl]

I have arranged numerous private tours for myself, fellow travellers and CC roll call members. I do not think it is a "very rare" tour guide who will listen to your requests, do their best to fullfill them, and remain flexible throughout the day. I also do not agreee that the "great majority" go to places where they, or their bosses, get kick backs. I'd really be curious to know just how many companies do get compensation from vendors. I'm sure it happens. One only has to look at the cruise ship sponsored tour stops and shopping guides! Of course a good guide should be able to recommend preferred shops, restaurants, etc. We've had some of our best meals that way. I certainly have places that I recommend over and over to visiting friends and family.

I guess I've been really fortunate to find those rrare tour guides. Of thirty or so private tours I've only had two less than satisfactory experiences, and in one of those, the guide never showed up, the other in Mallorca was a complete disaster.

It pays to do your homework before booking, and follow up with the provider once booked.

 

Of course guides have their preferred shops, restaurants, etc. They get their free meal or something else. Vendors will woo guides to stop at their places. Some guides are aggressive in having their tours stops at their preferred places, some are more laid-back, but will offer their places and be very happy when the tourists agree. Either way, someone is getting something. I'd like to know the name of a guide who is so altruistic that they never take a free meal or a bottle of lemoncello or .... In the hospitality industry, it is known as the "tipout". I deal with transportation and excursion vendors on a daily basis. Vendors will give a tipout to a Concierge for recommending and booking an excursion with them. Transportation companies will give a tipout to a Concierge for recommending and booking transportation to/from airport/port with them. To think this does not happen is naive. I do Concierge work in the summer. I'll confess that I've received tipouts from vendors here. Where I live and work, some of the small or up-and-coming vendors will tipout to get their foot in the door; the quality of the product and the replies I get from guests are what will drive me to suggest a vendor.

[cruisemom42]

I've definitely seen guides sitting with the store manager in the back as bills were counted out, so I'm pretty convinced it happens. ;)

 

Regarding restaurant recommendations, I would expect a guide bringing a group to get their lunch comped. What I object to is when there is a high-pressure sell to stop at a restaurant that doesn't fit the client's stated desires (e.g., for a quick lunch or inexpensive lunch).

 

And as the OP said, in those cases, don't be afraid to speak up and say no.