Why are some (old) persons arbitrarily excluded from Celebrity shore excursions?

[GottaKnowWhen]

I get it if an excursion involves scuba diving; it makes sense to limit the excursion to licensed experienced divers. I get it if an excursion involves a five mile hike over rugged terrain; it makes sense to exclude persons who require wheelchairs or scooters. But for a two and a half hour walk around a city, why would they exclude anybody over 70? No mention in the description of stairs, cobbled streets, a fast paced walk, nothing. No discussion of physical conditions, no health requirements. A 69 year old in wheel chair with oxygen tank for COPD is ok but anyone 70 or older may not apply. Really? Who allows this excursion vendor to sell their wares under the Celebrity banner?

 

[excursion in question is a walking tour of Zadar Croatia]

[Fouremco]

I just looked at the excursion on Celebrity's website and it makes no mention of an age limit. On the other hand, it includes this information which seems to be at odds with what you've read:

 

To fully participate may require extended periods of walking over even and uneven surfaces, steep terrain and/or water activity in a slight current. There may be steps, inclines, cobblestone surfaces, and extended periods of standing. Participants with physical limitations should take this into account.

 

I wonder if the information has recently been changed/updated.

[dkjretired]

I get it if an excursion involves scuba diving; it makes sense to limit the excursion to licensed experienced divers. I get it if an excursion involves a five mile hike over rugged terrain; it makes sense to exclude persons who require wheelchairs or scooters. But for a two and a half hour walk around a city, why would they exclude anybody over 70? No mention in the description of stairs, cobbled streets, a fast paced walk, nothing. No discussion of physical conditions, no health requirements. A 69 year old in wheel chair with oxygen tank for COPD is ok but anyone 70 or older may not apply. Really? Who allows this excursion vendor to sell their wares under the Celebrity banner?

 

[excursion in question is a walking tour of Zadar Croatia]

 

Very simple reason, CYA, cover your A**, it is done because of the Lawyers and requirements of the vendor. By the way, Celebrity is not the only line that does it.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I just looked at the excursion on Celebrity's website and it makes no mention of an age limit. On the other hand, it includes this information which seems to be at odds with what you've read:

 

To fully participate may require extended periods of walking over even and uneven surfaces, steep terrain and/or water activity in a slight current. There may be steps, inclines, cobblestone surfaces, and extended periods of standing. Participants with physical limitations should take this into account.

 

I wonder if the information has recently been changed/updated.

I will go back and look in case I missed this somehow. But it is really not relevant in any case. They seem to imply that being 70 or older is ipso facto a physical limitation. (The age limit comes into play when trying to book the excursion. Second or third step, a red letter warning that some of the party don’t meet the requirements. Over 70.)

[Fouremco]

I will go back and look in case I missed this somehow. But it is really not relevant in any case. They seem to imply that being 70 or older is ipso facto a physical limitation. (The age limit comes into play when trying to book the excursion. Second or third step, a red letter warning that some of the party don’t meet the requirements. Over 70.)

Ah, that's why I didn't see it.

 

I do agree that arbitrary limits can be annoying. A good number of snorkel excursions won't allow 70+ participants. Having scuba dived and snorkelled for the past 60 years, I just shake my head and snorkel independently with my DW. As dkjretired notes, it's insurance driven and insurance companies don't allow for exceptions. As young males know, it doesn't matter how skilled an individual driver might be, he's going to be paying very high premiums because he belongs to a group that statistically has more accidents.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I went back to my source of information, the Excursions Brochure I downloaded from Celebrity.

Under restrictions it does say in the overview that over 70 is not allowed. But none of the language quoted above. Just “Experience an informative walking tour...”

The brochure shows seven Excursions for Zadar. Three are “strenuous” with limitations age 65, age 60+max weight of 200 lbs, and age 65+max weight of 240lbs. RZ11, the historic walking tour, is not strenuous, it is moderate. Which is irrelevant because age is irrelevant as a factor in someone’s ability to walk around a city. For all they know I am an age-group world record holder in the marathon. But no, 70 or over not allowed. I think this is a very dumb way to run a business, and I think Celebrity is seriously screwing up by allowing contractors to impose arbitrary restrictions. What if the operator decided that women were excluded? Gays excluded? Jews excluded? Muslims excluded?

[purpletequila]

I've seen this conversation before on these boards somewhere and what somebody discovered was it was a requirement of the company insuring the tour vendor, not Celebrity or the tour company themselves.

That being said, I've taken my mother on these excursions, she is past the age limit of 70 and no one has said a word. I imagine though, if something had happened on an excursion, it would completely be our problem and whatever wouldn't be covered. I say just book it, within reason, if you think you can do it because I too find it all kind of arbitrary and ridiculous. My mother is almost 30 years older than me and honestly, in much better physical shape. I'm far more likely to drop dead of a heart attack or something, lol, so as you said, they have no way of knowing.

[PROCRUISE]

Unfortunately the age limitation happens. I went surface snorkeling with Viking Ocean three different times on a cruise last January and twice on a cruise with Celebrity last December. On a cruise I have booked with Celebrity in February 2019, a snorkeling excursion I was interested in suddenly states there is an age limit of 70 years of age. Since I'll be 72 years of age by then, guess I'll have to just snorkel in the ship pool! LOL

[mom says]

I think this is a very dumb way to run a business, and I think Celebrity is seriously screwing up by allowing contractors to impose arbitrary restrictions. What if the operator decided that women were excluded? Gays excluded? Jews excluded? Muslims excluded?

 

I think you need to dial back the rhetoric. It's ridiculous and bordering on offensive. As has been pointed out more than once, this is not something arbitrarily required by the cruise line or the contractor. It is a liability issue determined by the insurer and no doubt a result of their actuarial tables. And also consider that these are in a country outside the US. Their country, their rules.

[GottaKnowWhen]

... it was a requirement of the company insuring the tour vendor, not Celebrity or the tour company themselves. That being said, I've taken my mother on these excursions, she is past the age limit of 70 and no one has said a word. ...

Thanks. I would just do it and not worry about their restrictions. But unfortunately, Celebrity knows our age and does not allow the sign-up.

But I will have this discussion with the Excursions desk onboard and see if they would allow an exception.

Edited March 9, 2018 by GottaKnowWhen

[RickT]

My guess (although I unfortunately have seen it) is that while it may seem arbitrary it is at least definitive in that it’s not relying on people to make the wise choice and choose excursions based on their physical ability but rather saying “there is a good chance people of that age will have more difficulty getting around than people who are younger”. While it’s unfair to those who are physically fit it does weed out some people who might not be able to handle it.

 

We have all seen people on excursions who have difficulty getting on a bus and then expect to easily do a walking tour.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I think you need to dial back the rhetoric. It's ridiculous and bordering on offensive...

I think agism is just as offensive as racism or sexism or any other prejudice against a class of people. I am sorry if you think that discrimination is ok.

...As has been pointed out more than once, this is not something arbitrarily required by the cruise line or the contractor. It is a liability issue determined by the insurer and no doubt a result of their actuarial tables. And also consider that these are in a country outside the US. Their country, their rules.

 

If the tour company doesn't want my business, that's fine. If I walk off the ship, see their booth offering tours, and they tell me I must be incapable because my ID shows I am over 70, I suppose they can do that. But Celebrity does not have to contract with companies that impose arbitrary restrictions. Whether they are race or sex or age or any other irrelevant categorization. They are the purchaser of the service, they have the power, influence, and right to insist that the vendor provide reasonable access to the service. As I said in my original screed, my issue is not with reasonable limitations and restrictions. My issue is with arbitrary limitations based on irrelevant criteria.

[in2up2]

I think agism is just as offensive as racism or sexism or any other prejudice against a class of people. I am sorry if you think that discrimination is ok.

 

 

 

 

 

If the tour company doesn't want my business, that's fine. If I walk off the ship, see their booth offering tours, and they tell me I must be incapable because my ID shows I am over 70, I suppose they can do that. But Celebrity does not have to contract with companies that impose arbitrary restrictions. Whether they are race or sex or age or any other irrelevant categorization. They are the purchaser of the service, they have the power, influence, and right to insist that the vendor provide reasonable access to the service. As I said in my original screed, my issue is not with reasonable limitations and restrictions. My issue is with arbitrary limitations based on irrelevant criteria.

 

 

 

As posters keep trying to explain to you, these age limits are not set by the tour vendor but by Celebrity as most likely required by their insurance company. Just got off a cruise with my 9 yr old. X offered an excursion in St Maarten with a no one under 10 exclusion. The vendor would take anyone over 5. I booked the identical excursion independently with the vendor so my 9 yr old could go. So I guarantee if you walked up to the tour company's booth in port they would not ask and would not care how old you are.

 

 

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[purpletequila]

Thanks. I would just do it and not worry about their restrictions. But unfortunately, Celebrity knows our age and does not allow the sign-up.

But I will have this discussion with the Excursions desk onboard and see if they would allow an exception.

 

Hmmm. They must have changed that cause I had no problem but I did do a quick check for you online and saw that some 70+ people who complained to the Excursion desk were in fact, allowed to book on an exception basis...whatever that means. If all else fails, I also use third parties such as shoreexcursioneer which I'm sure you're aware of. I've never had a problem with any of them. Best of luck. I'm on your team and think this is BS. It's not 1950. People are living longer and healthier lives and should be able to fully enjoy their vacations as they choose.

[Cruise Junky]

You’re lucky you’re seeing 70. A couple I had my eye on said 65 which is completely ridiculous.

[cruiserchuck]

On our upcoming Asia cruise, some of the excursions have age limits of 80. Some have no age limits. I assume the limits are set by the local tour companies, not Celebrity. These are routine see the local sites tours, not ones that involve significant physical activities.

[chemmo]

In this day and age 70 seems very young to be considered past capable of making a decision as to the suitability of a tour!

 

Another good excuse for booking as many cruises as possible in the next year or two before we hit 70 and can no longer be trusted to safely take a walk around a town or city!

[excitedofharpenden]

I also know some 70+ year olds that could run rings around me! Unfortunately it comes down to simple statistics and that’s that for some companies. If it’s really an issue then an attempt to organise your own tour if you can is your best bet.

 

And to poster mom says, I totally agree with you. The rhetoric displayed here doesn’t help make the OP's point.

 

Phil

[gold1953]

People don't read the restrictions and warnings when booking a tour . It is most annoying when you are on a tour where people who cannot walk steps or cobblestones slow everything down to the point where we miss some of what we paid for. When the last and late person boards your bus ( for a tour with physical ability warnings) and they say they can't take the last seat in the back because they can't walk that far. Oh ,I could list a few. When you are fit and book a tour that requires such then you expect not to have your tour altered.

We have seen age limits listed ..well DH is 70 and plays hockey 4 times a week.

[Bo1953]

It is quite possible (most likely) the vendors insurer may impose these restrictions. One maybe able to find a private tour company/guide to do these tours with if it is a 'must do' excursion and they are over the age limit imposed.

 

So there are options, to be sure.

 

bon voyage

[floridatravelersforlife]

It is quite possible (most likely) the vendors insurer may impose these restrictions. One maybe able to find a private tour company/guide to do these tours with if it is a 'must do' excursion and they are over the age limit imposed.

 

So there are options, to be sure.

 

bon voyage

 

Absolutely ..

Vote with your wallet and find an independent tour. Not worth another minute of my time and I am approaching 70. Life is getting shorter for me.

[Bo1953]

My guess (although I unfortunately have seen it) is that while it may seem arbitrary it is at least definitive in that it’s not relying on people to make the wise choice and choose excursions based on their physical ability but rather saying “there is a good chance people of that age will have more difficulty getting around than people who are younger”. While it’s unfair to those who are physically fit it does weed out some people who might not be able to handle it.

 

We have all seen people on excursions who have difficulty getting on a bus and then expect to easily do a walking tour.

 

Yes, that is the reason we try to figure out how many people will be on any particular tour we want and determine if a private tour is in order to avoid such possibilities, as we do from time to time have friends who are over 65 and could not do some of the tours. Take no chances.

 

 

Therefore if we decide that something is too strenuous, then we can change or cancel and not effect others who are not related to our group.

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

Absolutely ..

Vote with your wallet and find an independent tour. Not worth another minute of my time and I am approaching 70. Life is getting shorter for me.

 

Not shorter, but more interesting, each passing day/year... :p

 

bon voyage

[MadManOfBethesda]

What if the operator decided that women were excluded? Gays excluded? Jews excluded? Muslims excluded?

 

Reductio ad absurdum

[TMLAalum]

DH and I are in our 70s. We are blessed to be fit, in fact booked a private guide to take us to the top of the Rock of Gibraltar last October via the Mediterranean Steps. Celebrity did offer the Med Steps as an excursion but I never went as far into the booking process as to see if there was an age restriction. Wouldn't surprise me if there was one.

 

I've no problem with Celebrity's imposition of an age-restriction for certain tours because, even though we can likely handle the conditions, many in our age group cannot yet think they can. All it takes is one person on a tour who struggles to keep up to put a damper on the experience for the others. Believe me, that has happened more than once on private tours I've organized despite clear descriptions of the level of difficulty the tour entailed!

 

to the OP: why not plan your own walking tour of Zadar or look for independent guides perhaps thru Tours by Locals or Viator?