Bouncing Between X and RCL.

[cltnccruisers]

For different reasons we prefer X for some cruises and RCL for others. It might be itinerary, who we are traveling with or cost. My DW used to work for a major sporting goods store that bought out a large golf shop chain. After a couple of years they merged their bonus point system.

 

I know there are transfers of class from RCL to X and vice versa. Has anyone heard of a complete merger? It ain't rocket science.

[gerelmx]

We have merged the accounts RCCL site show my Crown & Anchor and Captains Club loyalty numbers, but the points on the two systems are not merged (summed), each one accounts separately.

[leaveitallbehind]

As indicated by gerlmx, while under the same parent ownership since 1997, RCI and Celebrity are operated as separate companies with their own management, policies, and P&L. RCI is the only cruise line that I am aware of that does, however, offer reciprocal benefits with their different lines - RCI / Celebrity / Azamara.

 

But while the benefits offered by each program are reciprocal at certain tier levels, the loyalty points earned with each remain with the cruise line you are on at the time. Since the two companies are not merged and remain independent, so are their loyalty programs. After all they each have their own connection to each company's bottom line. And each company competes with each other and each wants your loyalty to remain with them.

[cltnccruisers]

As indicated by gerlmx, while under the same parent ownership since 1997, RCI and Celebrity are operated as separate companies with their own management, policies, and P&L. RCI is the only cruise line that I am aware of that does, however, offer reciprocal benefits with their different lines - RCI / Celebrity / Azamara.

 

But while the benefits offered by each program are reciprocal at certain tier levels, the loyalty points earned with each remain with the cruise line you are on at the time. Since the two companies are not merged and remain independent, so are their loyalty programs. After all they each have their own connection to each company's bottom line. And each company competes with each other and each wants your loyalty to remain with them.

 

The companies I referred in my post operate in much the same way. Having been in IT since 1979 I view the Single Sign On process as a possible first step in merging the IT systems. The loyalty programs might be a logical small next step that could have a big PR impact if done right. If done badly, of course, it could upset a lot of ego driven folks.

[leaveitallbehind]

The companies I referred in my post operate in much the same way. Having been in IT since 1979 I view the Single Sign On process as a possible first step in merging the IT systems. The loyalty programs might be a logical small next step that could have a big PR impact if done right. If done badly, of course, it could upset a lot of ego driven folks.

 

It isn't a matter of how easily it could be done from an IT point of view, it's a matter of not having a reason to do so from a business sense. In other words, whether it could be done easily or not, they don't want to do it.

 

As mentioned, Celebrity and RCI are operated as separate and competing businesses with separate loyalty programs. It is a decision of the parent company to recognize each others benefits when higher tier customers of one are cruising on the other since they are under the same parent company. But by design the points earned with each remain exclusive to each to keep their customers as loyal to each.

 

They have been under the same parent company but as separate businesses since 1997. Since the two companies are not trying to merge, there is no reason to merge their loyalty programs.

Edited April 16, 2018 by leaveitallbehind

[cltnccruisers]

It isn't a matter of how easily it could be done from an IT point of view, it's a matter of not having a reason to do so from a business sense. In other words, whether it could be done easily or not, they don't want to do it.

 

As mentioned, Celebrity and RCI are operated as separate and competing businesses with separate loyalty programs. It is a decision of the parent company to recognize each others benefits when higher tier customers of one are cruising on the other since they are under the same parent company. But by design the points earned with each remain exclusive to each to keep their customers as loyal to each.

 

They have been under the same parent company but as separate businesses since 1997. Since the two companies are not trying to merge, there is no reason to merge their loyalty programs.

 

I expect you are right. But it's a hockey night in Pennsylvania - GO PENS! :D

[leaveitallbehind]

I expect you are right. But it's a hockey night in Pennsylvania - GO PENS! :D

 

Although my wife is from Pittsburgh and is a Penquin's fan, as I am from the Philly area and we live there - go Flyers!

[cltnccruisers]

Although my wife is from Pittsburgh and is a Penquin's fan, as I am from the Philly area and we live there - go Flyers!

 

Used to be a great rivalry.

[Bruin Steve]

The “reciprocity” thing was a big mistake...combining the programs would be even worse.

 

It is already far too easy to reach higher levels of the loyalty programs. When they started allowing reciprocity, it greatly increased the number of Diamond C&A members...and had an even greater impact on the number of Elite Captains Club members (Remember, RCCL has over twice the number of ships carrying over four times the passengers with a far greater number of short cruises—which over the years have qualified far more people for Diamond status).

 

Because of that, Diamond lounges and Elite drinking hours have been overburdened.

 

If you merely “combined” the two programs, the numbers qualifying for benefits at higher levels would become untenable.

 

So, sure, you could combine the two, but, 8n order to make the logistics practical and to keep the costs manageable, you would have to drastically change the program—like increasing the number of cruises needed to reach higher levels and/or decreasing or taking away the benefits...

[Mr. Click]

Since the two lines calculate our points differently that would have to be some kind of mediation or conciliation on our current points count. Right now we have 29 points on RC and 376 on X. However, using RC's one point per night on board, multiplying that by Celebrity's 3 points per night for veranda bookings we would really have 87 points to add to our 376.....so yes, it would create a lot of confusion, it would swell the ranks of the Elite/Diamond and above and I just don't see it happening any time soon. Do I wish it would happen? Yep.....but I still choose Celebrity when I have a choice, I just enjoy their trips better.

[davekathy]

The “reciprocity” thing was a big mistake...combining the programs would be even worse.

 

It is already far too easy to reach higher levels of the loyalty programs. When they started allowing reciprocity, it greatly increased the number of Diamond C&A members...and had an even greater impact on the number of Elite Captains Club members (Remember, RCCL has over twice the number of ships carrying over four times the passengers with a far greater number of short cruises—which over the years have qualified far more people for Diamond status).

 

Because of that, Diamond lounges and Elite drinking hours have been overburdened.

If you merely “combined” the two programs, the numbers qualifying for benefits at higher levels would become untenable.

 

So, sure, you could combine the two, but, 8n order to make the logistics practical and to keep the costs manageable, you would have to drastically change the program—like increasing the number of cruises needed to reach higher levels and/or decreasing or taking away the benefits...

Not on every sailing. We did a B2B cruise on the Jewel March/April 2017 and the DL wasn't crowed any evening we were there. Just did a B2B cruise on the Equinox March of this year and there were so few of us Elite and above the Captains Club hostess sectioned off a potion of the Sky Lounge for our nightly gatherings. No lines getting into the lounge and no long waits for drinks or canapes. TA sailings might be a different issue.

[Bruin Steve]

Not on every sailing. We did a B2B cruise on the Jewel March/April 2017 and the DL wasn't crowed any evening we were there. Just did a B2B cruise on the Equinox March of this year and there were so few of us Elite and above the Captains Club hostess sectioned off a potion of the Sky Lounge for our nightly gatherings. No lines getting into the lounge and no long waits for drinks or canapes. TA sailings might be a different issue.

Purely anecdotal. Yes, SOME sailings, they are not overburdened...yet. But, do you have any idea how many Elite/Diamond members would be created if the programs were simply combined and numbers totaled and compounded? How many people are out there currently who are halfway to Elite and halfway to Diamond? Those people would still hav3 several cruises yet to take on one or the other to get there...but...combine and total and they’re all in the Elite Lounge. Any such lounge that’s not full now, would be. Those cruises where they are full, they would be crushed. And those where they are already overmatched... where they are giving out vouchers to try to encourage people NOT to show up, well, forget it.

 

Only easy answer would be to greatly RAISE the requirements to get there...and to DECREASE the value of the perks given. You can’t make it twice as easy to get to Elite AND continue to give away the same perks,

[pa10tatty]

Azamara and Celebrity already share points as well as status level as they each use the same tiered structure for awarding points (i.e., the more you spend the more points you receive per night). I can see Royal going to the same type of structure as it would make it more difficult to reach Diamond then the Royal present system.

 

If Royal did go to Celebrity and Azamara I think it would be a unfortunate for Celebrity and Azamara as Royal is so much larger and appears to have so many more Diamond and above.

[grandgeezer]

The “reciprocity” thing was a big mistake...combining the programs would be even worse.

 

It is already far too easy to reach higher levels of the loyalty programs. ...

 

It used to be easier. In the mid 2000s, we were Elite on Celebrity after five cruises. We took longer cruises and booked Concierge class to get the extra points. When they added Elite Plus we had enough points to automatically move up. That was after twelve cruises.

We were put in Diamond on RCL when we were Elite. After our B2B on the Allure in October we'll have enough points with RCL to be Diamond on it's own so if they want to drop the reciprocity we'll be covered.

[villauk]

It used to be easier. In the mid 2000s, we were Elite on Celebrity after five cruises. We took longer cruises and booked Concierge class to get the extra points. When they added Elite Plus we had enough points to automatically move up. That was after twelve cruises.

We were put in Diamond on RCL when we were Elite. After our B2B on the Allure in October we'll have enough points with RCL to be Diamond on it's own so if they want to drop the reciprocity we'll be covered.

 

Same with us and the kids regarding points on X and Royal, but what happens if you sail Azamara as I noticed a post above that stated they share? That may be the next step for us.

[hcat]

The companies I referred in my post operate in much the same way. Having been in IT since 1979 I view the Single Sign On process as a possible first step in merging the IT systems. The loyalty programs might be a logical small next step that could have a big PR impact if done right. If done badly, of course, it could upset a lot of ego driven folks.

 

 

For us combining perks would be yet another step of completely Royalizing X ,..which we have been sad to see. Little by little X continues to lose its special identity.

 

Don't know about ego issues, but on a practical level, merger of points would result in many more at top level on both lines.

 

While we enjoy the reciprocal tier benefits ourselves we did notice much bigger crowds at Elite events when many Royal Diamonds jumped over to X after the triple perk program started.,,esp the alc packages.

 

Hoping it stays as is...We are looking forward to reciprocal tier perks on Azamara in the future.

Edited April 16, 2018 by hcat

[Silkroad]

Same with us and the kids regarding points on X and Royal, but what happens if you sail Azamara as I noticed a post above that stated they share? That may be the next step for us.

I’ve not sailed Azamara, but have researched them because we’re interested in a couple of their itineraries. Currently, Azamara gives reciprocal club status to Celebrity passengers, and the two lines count subsequent sailing points on either line (this was not always so). However, in order to receive some benefits, Azamara’s club requires a certain percentage of one’s recent sailings to have been with them.

[davekathy]

Purely anecdotal. Yes, SOME sailings, they are not overburdened...yet. But, do you have any idea how many Elite/Diamond members would be created if the programs were simply combined and numbers totaled and compounded? How many people are out there currently who are halfway to Elite and halfway to Diamond? Those people would still hav3 several cruises yet to take on one or the other to get there...but...combine and total and they’re all in the Elite Lounge. Any such lounge that’s not full now, would be. Those cruises where they are full, they would be crushed. And those where they are already overmatched... where they are giving out vouchers to try to encourage people NOT to show up, well, forget it.

 

Only easy answer would be to greatly RAISE the requirements to get there...and to DECREASE the value of the perks given. You can’t make it twice as easy to get to Elite AND continue to give away the same perks,

As is your statement. Glad you agree with me that not all cruises are overflowing/overwhelmed with the top tier cruisers. Even our September 2017 Canada/US Coastal cruise on the Infinity the evening social hours in the Constellation Lounge were not crowed.

Edited April 16, 2018 by davekathy

[cltnccruisers]

So what do you see as the purpose of the single sign on exercise if not as a first step in a site merger - or at least data sharing?

[hcat]

Not on every sailing. We did a B2B cruise on the Jewel March/April 2017 and the DL wasn't crowed any evening we were there. Just did a B2B cruise on the Equinox March of this year and there were so few of us Elite and above the Captains Club hostess sectioned off a potion of the Sky Lounge for our nightly gatherings. No lines getting into the lounge and no long waits for drinks or canapes. TA sailings might be a different issue.

 

You were lucky. On our last Infinity cruise, I guess there were not too many E, E plus and Zenith Cap Club members onboard.....so the supposedly special event with the Sr officers was opened to all Cap Club tiers in addition to the regular Cap Club event that we usually skip..

 

...As a result, the Sr ofcrs party was quite a mob scene and NOT very special...

[davekathy]

You were lucky. On our last Infinity cruise, I guess there were not too many E, E plus and Zenith Cap Club members onboard.....so the supposedly special event with the Sr officers was opened to all Cap Club tiers in addition to the regular Cap Club event that we usually skip..

 

...As a result, the Sr ofcrs party was quite a mob scene and NOT very special...

Supposedly? So you're not sure. None of the Senior officer events we've ever attended (no matter the ship) have been open to all Captain Club tiers levels. Not sure why if there were that many upper tier levels on your sailing the CC hostess would have opened the event to all CC tier levels. Makes no sense. :confused: It does get a little busier on the afternoon where all the Captain Club tier level members are invited.

We'll have to wait to see if the nightly social hours are packed as we will be back on the Infinity this September for another Canada/Coastal cruise. Hopefully it's a repeat of September 2017. Our most recent B2B cruise was this March on the Equinox and the evening upper tier level social hours weren't crowed. I do understand and have been on ships where the evening events were crowded.

[upwarduk]

Same with us and the kids regarding points on X and Royal, but what happens if you sail Azamara as I noticed a post above that stated they share? That may be the next step for us.

 

Celebrity Captain’s Club number is also used for Azamara’s Le Club Voyager, but Azamara is more generous with its points. We sail in balcony cabins, so we accrued 3 C.C points on Celebrity, but 5 on Azamara.

 

We are sailing Royal in October and will have Diamond status, even though we have only sailed once on RCCL. However, the points we earn won’t increase our C.C total.

 

RCI is the only cruise line that I am aware of that does, however, offer reciprocal benefits with their different lines - RCI / Celebrity / Azamara.

 

 

Leaveitallbehind

Up until Jan 2 nd this year, P&O and Princess had reciprocal status. We sailed our first Princess cruise May 2017 and had Ruby status, due to having sailed P&O. We then gained Platinum status and will be due some excellent benefits, mainly excellent Internet points, 250 free minutes, for a 14 night cruise.

[Bruin Steve]

As is your statement. Glad you agree with me that not all cruises are overflowing/overwhelmed with the top tier cruisers. Even our September 2017 Canada/US Coastal cruise on the Infinity the evening social hours in the Constellation Lounge were not crowed.

Though in your haste to establish that, you miss the point: Combining Crown and Anchor and Captains Club would result in ALL sailings being overwhelmed...If you took everyone's points from each cruise line and combined them using the current requirement levels, you would create an incredibly large number of new Diamond/Elites from the pool of people who have cruised a few times on each without close to enough points on either.

 

As to the comments regarding Azamara, it is an historical thing...and there is a purpose to it as well: Originally, when the two Azamara ships were acquired, they were intended to be placed into the Celebrity fleet. But looking at Oceania's initial success with its share of the R-ships (All of those ships were originally built for the old Renaissance Cruise Lines--when it went belly-up, the ships were bought by RCI, Princess, a foreign line and by the new start-up Oceania) and noting that they really didn't fit Celebrity's formula, they decided to start a new cruise line--hence Azamara...which could be marketed as an upgrade to Celebrity cruisers wanting a smaller, more upscale experience--and afraid to lose them to Oceania and to the premium lines. Since they figured they would be drawing the business from their current loyal Celebrity customers, they gave those customers an incentive by adding the two small Azamara ships loyalty system to the Captains Club. The effect of two 700 passenger ships doing mostly longer cruises would not have a major impact on the loyalty stats.

[davekathy]

Though in your haste to establish that, you miss the point: Combining Crown and Anchor and Captains Club would result in ALL sailings being overwhelmed...If you took everyone's points from each cruise line and combined them using the current requirement levels, you would create an incredibly large number of new Diamond/Elites from the pool of people who have cruised a few times on each without close to enough points on either.

 

As to the comments regarding Azamara, it is an historical thing...and there is a purpose to it as well: Originally, when the two Azamara ships were acquired, they were intended to be placed into the Celebrity fleet. But looking at Oceania's initial success with its share of the R-ships (All of those ships were originally built for the old Renaissance Cruise Lines--when it went belly-up, the ships were bought by RCI, Princess, a foreign line and by the new start-up Oceania) and noting that they really didn't fit Celebrity's formula, they decided to start a new cruise line--hence Azamara...which could be marketed as an upgrade to Celebrity cruisers wanting a smaller, more upscale experience--and afraid to lose them to Oceania and to the premium lines. Since they figured they would be drawing the business from their current loyal Celebrity customers, they gave those customers an incentive by adding the two small Azamara ships loyalty system to the Captains Club. The effect of two 700 passenger ships doing mostly longer cruises would not have a major impact on the loyalty stats.

... and you are talking "what if" and I'm talking about the current structure. I'm not concerning myself with the what if just the for real as it is currently. I have no issues with the tier levels being recipicol between Celebrity and RC up to Elite. I'd like to see D+ recognized as E+. I totally get some sailings are more crowed than others. Just not all.

[markeb]

I'm curious. How long have the Captain's Club and Crown and Anchor been around, more or less in their current format?

 

The reciprocity is just good marketing. If you're RCCL, you'd much prefer your RCI customer who wants a different experience book Celebrity than HAL. Giving them the same level of recognition costs you almost nothing, and makes good sense. I really don't think the apocalypse would happen if you chose a program and accumulated all your points in that program (or combined the programs); other than allowing you to reach E+ or D+ by sailing both lines (it's probably a statistically insignificant number of people that would make E or D by combining RCI and X; the two lines cater to different places in life for the most part).

 

The airline model is largely to pick one (United or Lufthansa, for instance), gain your annual status on that one, and share the mutual status on the others. I've only done United/Lufthansa (Star Alliance) recently. In the past, when AA and Alaska had an arrangement, your Admiral's Club membership wouldn't get you into the Alaska Lounge, and Alaska boarded their own elite members before their partner elite members.

 

I also lived through the United/Continental merger, and on any given day at Dulles, there will be 40-50 silver and higher members on the upgrade wait list for 12-20 seats, and sometimes 35-40 people waiting for boarding group 1 (first/business, platinum and 1K). So I get the concern about the number of Elites growing, but everyone who's Diamond on RCI is already Elite on X, so is it really that many people?