Oprah, Godmother of Nieuw Statendam

[bob brown]

Where do you put Cunard?

 

Roz

 

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Cunard for the most part, is a mainstream line. It's ''Grill Class" is a cut above, but this "ship within a ship" concept is something else. It seems to be a trend now, with several other mainstream lines expanding this concept...such as NCL's Haven's, MSC's, Yacht Club, and other lines also expanding exclusive enclaves for their suite guests...

[bob brown]

I doubt there is enough room in the marketplace for more than three grades. Remember, they have to manage a company through the good times and through the recessions.

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I only consider Carnival Corp. to have two basic grades...Seabourne, and then all of the rest of their lines. They need something like Oceania, half way in between...and I don't consider a 'suite only' section of a mainstream ship to fit that description. JMHO...

[ElaineKeagy]

In related news:https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/travel/a20266198/oprah-girls-getaway-cruise-holland-america/

 

 

 

If this cruise sold out in one day, strictly because of Oprah/Gayle, these pax will be celebrity seekers, they are not HALs base.

The overwhelming majority will never return to HAL because they’re more the Carnival audience.

 

“This cruise sounds amazing!” Who said that? Sounds like a nightmare to me.

 

 

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[navybankerteacher]

I only consider Carnival Corp. to have two basic grades...Seabourne, and then all of the rest of their lines. They need something like Oceania, half way in between...and I don't consider a 'suite only' section of a mainstream ship to fit that description. JMHO...

 

 

Agreed - until about a dozen year sales ago HAL was generally recognized as being a superior mainstream line - which tier seems to have been abandoned by Carnival Corp.

[bUU]

I only consider Carnival Corp. to have two basic grades...Seabourne, and then all of the rest of their lines. ...

Having recently cruised on Carnival I can assure you that, while quite fun, it is a substantial step down from Holland America. Rest assured, there are three grades.

 

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[bUU]

If this cruise sold out in one day, strictly because of Oprah/Gayle, these pax will be celebrity seekers, they are not HALs base.

Or perhaps we should call them, "Holland America's new base".

 

 

 

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[Roz]

If this cruise sold out in one day, strictly because of Oprah/Gayle, these pax will be celebrity seekers, they are not HALs base.

The overwhelming majority will never return to HAL because they’re more the Carnival audience.

 

“This cruise sounds amazing!” Who said that? Sounds like a nightmare to me.

 

 

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How do you define "the Carnival audience"? If someone paid a premium to go on an Oprah cruise on HAL, what makes you think that if they wanted to do another cruise, they would gravitate towards Carnival? I should mention I sail both lines.

 

I've been wanting to post something for a long time, but have been reluctant to do so for fear of being circled by cyber pitchfork and torch carrying forum bullies, but here goes. A lady I work with went on an Oprah cruise, and showed me the daily programs. A lot of the workshops, seminars, and activities are things I would be interested in, and would like to see HAL offer on their regular cruises. If you didn't know it was an Oprah cruise, you wouldn't associate them with a celebrity or personality.

 

Roz

[sammiedawg]

Carnival Corp reshuffled their deck some years ago, after the purchase of Princess. Princess was the more appealing brand, had a younger fleet and a younger passenger base. They poured money into Princess and let HAL slide. Holland America slid down the pecking order to the point many customers, including us, moved on. Not necessarily to other mainstream lines.

Premium brands, luxury light, have emerged and are wonderful. Oceania, Viking, Azamara.

 

Holland America had to broaden its appeal as their older customer base continually ages out. They finally rolled out some new ships. They are marketing to other demographic groups.

[sail7seas]

I don't think excluding the faithful, as you did later in your post, makes sense. They are generally railing against the changes even though there are other cruise lines that offer more of what they want. Most have remained here because of how much more expensive those other cruise lines are. Cost drives practically the entire customer base, target and otherwise.

 

 

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Wrong for some of us Generalizations often do not work.

 

 

For what I pay as a solo in a Neptune Suite, it is NO bargain. I could sail most any cruise line for equal or certainly less.

 

 

My choice has been HAL because of the people of HAL.

[bUU]

Wrong for some of us Generalizations often do not work.

You seem to not understand the purpose of generalizations. They are used to characterize the general case, and indicate the overall direction of the market. There is no need for there to be a single model that fits every individual customer.

 

For the few for whom the general model does not fit, they are treated as outliers and don't have significant impact on the system overall.

 

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[Aquahound]

Rest assured, there are three grades.

 

That is your opinion, not fact. Concrete cruise line classifications do not exist.

[bUU]

That is your opinion, not fact. Concrete cruise line classifications do not exist.

What I wrote before what you quoted is fact, and reasonable people can make the logical implication that you chose to include in your quoting. I respect your right to quote deceptively though.

 

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[stickey_mouse]

I'm curious to know why people dislike Oprah. I am not a fan, but I don't dislike her, either. Just indifferent, I guess. I'd love to know why there is so much outcry against her. And please don't tell me it's because she's political, or divisive, or elitist. Give me something specific.

[Aquahound]

What I wrote before what you quoted is fact, and reasonable people can make the logical implication that you chose to include in your quoting. I respect your right to quote deceptively though.

 

What you said about Carnival is irrelevant to the point. You said there are 3 grades of cruise lines. One more time...that is your opinion. I happen to believe there are 4 grades of cruise lines. Difference is, I'm able to differentiate my opinion from the fact there are no concrete classifications.

[Sea girl 23]

I'm curious to know why people dislike Oprah. I am not a fan, but I don't dislike her, either. Just indifferent, I guess. I'd love to know why there is so much outcry against her. And please don't tell me it's because she's political, or divisive, or elitist. Give me something specific.

 

As I said on another thread, whenever someone questions why Oprah is problematic they get strangely quiet.:confused:

[Cruzaholic41]

As I said on another thread, whenever someone questions why Oprah is problematic they get strangely quiet.:confused:

 

They get quiet because it usually has to do with topics that are not permitted to be discussed on Cruise Critic. I have some deep disdain for O but because the reasons are political, I cannot - and will not - discuss them here.

[Fouremco]

Having recently cruised on Carnival I can assure you that, while quite fun, it is a substantial step down from Holland America. Rest assured, there are three grades.

 

That is your opinion, not fact. Concrete cruise line classifications do not exist.

 

What I wrote before what you quoted is fact, and reasonable people can make the logical implication that you chose to include in your quoting. I respect your right to quote deceptively though.

Other than your statement that you recently cruised on Carnival, which I accept as fact, the entirety of your first post was personal opinion. There's nothing deceptive about Aquahound's post IMHO.

[stickey_mouse]

They get quiet because it usually has to do with topics that are not permitted to be discussed on Cruise Critic. I have some deep disdain for O but because the reasons are political, I cannot - and will not - discuss them here.

But can you give me a hint? I personally don't see her as a political entity. Please tell me why I'm wrong.

[Roz]

The only political thing Oprah has ever done, and for some reason it seems to send people over the edge, is when on her TV show she endorsed her Senator, Barack Obama, for President. It's so benign in the scheme of things.

 

Roz

[stickey_mouse]

The only political thing Oprah has ever done, and for some reason it seems to send people over the edge, is when on her TV show she endorsed her Senator, Barack Obama, for President. It's so benign in the scheme of things.

 

Roz

That's all I can think of, as well. I would not call her 'political' because of this. I hope that whoever holds this against her and HAL also does their due diligence to see what political candidates/parties all godmothers and HAL executives have supported in the past.

[Sea girl 23]

The only political thing Oprah has ever done, and for some reason it seems to send people over the edge, is when on her TV show she endorsed her Senator, Barack Obama, for President. It's so benign in the scheme of things.

 

Roz

 

Oh noes! Obama![/sarcasm] :')

[Cruzaholic41]

But can you give me a hint? I personally don't see her as a political entity. Please tell me why I'm wrong.

 

The only political thing Oprah has ever done, and for some reason it seems to send people over the edge, is when on her TV show she endorsed her Senator, Barack Obama, for President. It's so benign in the scheme of things.

 

Roz

 

I don’t care who endorses who for political office. That’s of no concern to me. My disdain for her stems from her very vocal stance on certain political issues. She had an opportunity to use her platform to plead for unity but instead, took a stance on a topic that is creating a divide in this country.

[Cruise Junky]

I don’t care who endorses who for political office. That’s of no concern to me. My disdain for her stems from her very vocal stance on certain political issues. She had an opportunity to use her platform to plead for unity but instead, took a stance on a topic that is creating a divide in this country.

 

Stop the vagueness and tell us exactly what stance you're talking about so we don't have to play guessing games.

[InTheWASide]

If this cruise sold out in one day, strictly because of Oprah/Gayle, these pax will be celebrity seekers, they are not HALs base.

The overwhelming majority will never return to HAL because they’re more the Carnival audience.

 

“This cruise sounds amazing!” Who said that? Sounds like a nightmare to me.

 

 

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Interesting that you change and assume facts to suit your narrative...

[Roz]

I don’t care who endorses who for political office. That’s of no concern to me. My disdain for her stems from her very vocal stance on certain political issues. She had an opportunity to use her platform to plead for unity but instead, took a stance on a topic that is creating a divide in this country.

 

Please articulate her "very vocal stance on certain political issues". I have no idea what you're referring to.

 

Roz