Is Celebrity shooting itself in the foot?

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, Airspeed said:

What I lament the most is that the parquet flooring will be replaced, and there will be no more grand piano. I am old fashioned in a way, and also European: I really like the style of the living room, and will miss the fact that the piano will be gone (I am classically trained and practiced during the cruises I took).

 

Looking at other options...

 

As someone who had booked the SS next to a PS on Millie [but was thankfully upgraded], I for one am glad they are taking out the piano – it was positioned near the communicating door, so your neighbor would be able to [= be forced to] hear your playing almost as loud as you.  If you want to play the piano on your cruise, either spring for the RS [which is large enough to protect your neighbors] or go on Crystal [which has a room full of Yamaha digital keyboards with headphones]  

[Covepointcruiser]

The Celebrity Suite on Solstice cLass ships is a waste.   You get no additional benefits over the cheapest suite and you get very limited additional space.   When you upgrade to a Royal Suite you get an additional half bath, a dining table and room to walk around.   You also receive unlimited internet, Specialty Dining and premium beverage packages.

This is very useful on transatlantic voyages when nothing is included for lower suites.

Michaels Club is also very crowded on these voyages making the premium package more worthwhile.   The Edge has many premium suites above Royal Suite and I am not sure of the perks included with those suites.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

3 hours ago, Airspeed said:

The whole thing will be stripped down to the are metal. They are doing the white furniture pattern as seen throughout the new Edge styling. This may be an improvement in the Royal Suites, which need a desperate makeover, but will definitely bring down the standards of the penthouse suites. They are also not fixing the worst part of the Royal Suites on the Millennium Class - that porthole in the bedroom really should be a larger window.

 

After reading some of the less enthusiastic reviews of the Edge, I am looking for alternatives...

Royal Suites on the M class have a sliding glass door to the veranda.  That's a pretty good window on the world.

 

I think it's interesting that you are condemning the entire process when no one has yet seen it.

[Aralim]

Just now, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

I think it's interesting that you are condemning the entire process when no one has yet seen it.

 

Have to second this. I’m going to be taking my first sailing on Celebrity in August 2020 for the Greenland & Iceland transatlantic, and I’m having to book my family in a pair of inside cabins to stay within the budget I can afford and still have funds to take excursions in these places, even though this is a 50th birthday cruise and sailing in a suite was something I’d really hoped to be able to do as part of that celebration. And I’m beyond grateful to be able to take this cruise at all after the four years of outright hell I’ve had with various serious family problems that would have put many families into bankruptcy, and that have likely caused when I can take retirement to be pushed out by a decade or more.

 

<rant>

Reading all the comments about how the suite life will be “ruined” because of a freaking palette change and update to furnishings and decor is seriously making me shake my head in wonderment. You apparently have the level of wealth and financial security to regularly cruise in top-level Suites, maybe very well-earned after decades of scrimping and saving before retirement, and you’re complaining that your experience will be forever wrecked because of that?!? Holy first world problems, Batman!!

 

You know what? Every cabin on the ship is being redesigned and changed in some way! It may well impact me, the steerage-level inside cabin passenger, in some way like less storage for two weeks of stuff. I’m still taking this cruise with my family that I’ve dreamed about for years. I’m still getting to see places I only dreamed about and maybe meeting some of my wife’s distant family for the first time ever. I’m no fan of modern design either, but it’s nothing that will single-handedly ruin my cruise.

 

Maybe wait for some actual photos of the final product, possibly with... I don’t know... actual passenger reviews(??) for this specific ship before you go rending your garments and decrying the state of the Celebrity Cruises.

 

“I’d like a serving of some nice, fresh perspective, please.”

</rant>

[ipeeinthepool]

11 hours ago, cardiffman said:

I am almost done with my first cruise on Celebrity. I'm in a Celebrity Suite, not PS or RS and I am wondering what you folks used to expect. I have other experiences in cruising and hotel stays that calibrated my reaction to the service we got and space we occupied, and I feel that the CS is as good as it gets. Can you kindly share some notes?

 

 

Suite passengers are in the minority on board a ship are probably in a minority on this board.  You should probably focus on specific reviews of suites to answer your question. Celebrity has gone out their way to cater to the suite passengers and it may be working.   I wish you well in the suites, life is not as good for the rest of us.

[waterbug123]

19 hours ago, Airspeed said:

From everything I read the Edge looks close to a concept disaster. Yet Celebrity, without testing the market perception of its new concept, has decided to go full blown and "Edgesize" its entire fleet. The Penthouse Suite will be forever ruined on the Summit....

In my opinion, Celebrity is shooting itself in the foot...

 

17 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 prices will drop significantly because they will not get the same level of return cruisers as they expected.

 

First, so few passengers sail in the largest suites that it will hardly matter if no one likes them.  Although I'm sure plenty WILL like them.  Second, I recall many of the same type of comments when Royal introduced Oasis.  People said it would be the downfall of Royal because a ship that large would be just awful.  Royal would fail and go bankrupt.  No one would ever want to cruise on it, and certainly not more than once.  They were going to lose money on it.   And so on and so on with all the doomsday predictions.  But it never happened.   People do continue to go on Oasis, people continue to sail Oais repeatedly, and Royal has continued to build additional Oasis-class ships, including the latest ones that they originally had no obligation to build, so it isn't just because they have contracts to fulfill.  Does everyone love it?  Of course not, but there are plenty of people who do that the doomsday predictions never came true.  Likely the same will happen with Edge.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

19 hours ago, Diver2014 said:

How can you say Celebrity is 'shooting itself in the foot' without ever setting foot on the Edge?   Looking at photos and reading other people's opinions should not sway your opinion.  I think Celebrity knows exactly what they are doing and 'suite' folks like yourself are complaining about something you have not experienced.

 

If Celebrity knows exactly what they're doing, then they must have expected (A) mixed reviews, (B) polarizing photos, and (C)  "suite folks" looking at alternatives.  You may not agree with the reasoning, but likely everyone here goes through the same process when choosing a hotel.

 

[Host Anne]

I've sailed on all classes of Celebrity ships over the years from Zenith to Edge.  We've enjoyed them all.  We recently experienced the IV and SS on Edge (we upgraded as I seriously disliked the IV).  My issue with the revolution of all the other ships in the fleet is that they are overwhelming white/light colors.  It makes for much brighter environs but it is going to be impossible to keep the white/light furniture, etc. clean.  On Edge, the white furniture at the Rooftop Garden was already very dirty (after one month of sailing); the light colored couch in our SS already showed stains.  I think keeping the "revolutionized" ships looking clean and bright is going to be very difficult.  There were other areas (wooden staircase; chairs at the Sunset Bar) that were already showing an unusual amount of wear and tear after a very short time.  

 

It will be interesting to see how good upkeep on Celebrity ships is moving forward.

[jelayne]

We haven’t been on the Summit but had done multiple cruises on both the Connie and the Infinity.  We are booked on the Summit for June and are looking forward to the revolutionized interior.  We have stayed in Sky Suites, CS and a FV.  While we liked the ships and the excellent service the decor, to us, was dark, worn, outdated and badly in need of a complete re-do.

 

We have sailed on the Edge and found the grey, taupe colors with pops of color to be far more appealing.  We visited the Retreat (not in a Suite so just a visit) and it was lovely.  I can’t imagine where the cramped places were as the walkways in the public spaces were wide, Blu felt more spacious than on either the M class or S class, OV was well laid out and we were alway able to find a table.  Some spots would get busy at times (Eden lunch, Martini bar 5-8) ) but places get busy and crowded on all ships.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

13 hours ago, Aralim said:

Reading all the comments about how the suite life will be “ruined” because of a freaking palette change and update to furnishings and decor is seriously making me shake my head in wonderment. You apparently have the level of wealth and financial security to regularly cruise in top-level Suites, maybe very well-earned after decades of scrimping and saving before retirement, and you’re complaining that your experience will be forever wrecked because of that?!? Holy first world problems, Batman!!

 

And there are plenty on here who would never sail HAL over the decor, plenty of first world problems to go around.  A cruise ship is just one form of transportation, people swap the make and model of car rental all the time, as well as switch airline or hotel loyalty.  People both love and hate Virgin Atlantic based neon lights.  This doesn't necessarily equal "ruined vacation" either way.  

 

1 hour ago, waterbug123 said:

 

 

First, so few passengers sail in the largest suites that it will hardly matter if no one likes them.  Although I'm sure plenty WILL like them.  Second, I recall many of the same type of comments when Royal introduced Oasis.  People said it would be the downfall of Royal because a ship that large would be just awful.  Royal would fail and go bankrupt.  No one would ever want to cruise on it, and certainly not more than once.  They were going to lose money on it.   And so on and so on with all the doomsday predictions.  But it never happened.   People do continue to go on Oasis, people continue to sail Oais repeatedly, and Royal has continued to build additional Oasis-class ships, including the latest ones that they originally had no obligation to build, so it isn't just because they have contracts to fulfill.  Does everyone love it?  Of course not, but there are plenty of people who do that the doomsday predictions never came true.  Likely the same will happen with Edge.

 

The older ships are not being "Oasisized", and there are plenty of RCCL fans who want nothing to do with the mega ships.  Edge on the other hand, is being rolled out fleet wide.  

 

Don't forget Quantum, which is actually newer than Oasis class, and mostly a flop.  45% of the reviews are 4 and 5 star, basically pushed off to secondary markets.  They had big plans of pushing Quantum features across the fleet, but ended up cancelling last minute, due to negative reactions.

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, Airspeed said:

I have had my third Celebrity cruise in December, the last two cruises were in a Penthouse suite on the Millenium-class Summit, prior to that we were in a Royal Suite.

We both (my wife and I) really liked the Summit, and though we felt the Royal Suite was dark, dated, and definitely can use an upgrade, loved the Penthouse suite to death! Wooden Parquet flooring, Yamaha C1 grand piano (I play), gigantic balcony, and so on...

 

From everything I read the Edge looks close to a concept disaster. Yet Celebrity, without testing the market perception of its new concept, has decided to go full blown and "Edgesize" its entire fleet. The Penthouse Suite will be forever ruined on the Summit.

 

This reminds me of the CueCat, that innovative bar code scanner that ended up being on or IT's worst marketing disasters. The difference: It was free. The Edge is not. In fact,she carries a premium.

 

This whole horror show has prompted me to  look at other suites on other cruise lines, such as Holland America's Pinnacle Suite, or the Royal Caribbean Royal Suite. I would have never done so had I now known that the Penthouse was going to be ruined.

 

In my opinion, Celebrity is shooting itself in the foot...

Airspeed, Celebrity shooting itself in the foot?  Your post indicates you have been convinced that you will dislike Edge, and also the renovations of the other ships.  Horror show? You are already convinced that the Summit PH suite will be ruined.  Interesting. All of this without ever stepping foot on Edge.  Or on a renovated M-Class.  I guess you will leave Celebrity and choose the cruise line where you will find only positive reviews and make your buying decision.  Please let me know what cruise line that is at it must be amazing!

[First family]

5 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Suite passengers are in the minority on board a ship are probably in a minority on this board.  You should probably focus on specific reviews of suites to answer your question. Celebrity has gone out their way to cater to the suite passengers and it may be working.   I wish you well in the suites, life is not as good for the rest of us.

A cruise is a cruise and it’s what you make of it. When I was young with no issues I sailed across all categories, including inside. Back then my time was spent on deck so why not? I choose a suite for the space and service. I need the help!  I travel with DH who is now mobility disabled, DS who has autism, and a friend to help me with both of them. Four people, wheelchair, scooter, oxygen equipment, CPAC, extension cord, distilled water, a bag of meds.....and that’s for one. My son doesn’t participate much with others, he prefers to stay in the suite and play his video games or music. Fine dining is a painful experience for him so he gets room service. He lives on pizza and cheeseburgers in the room, and that’s his vacation. He loves it. Me?  My vacation consists of having a butler. Someone to pamper me for a week is bliss. Usually by the time I take a cruise, I really need a cruise. 

[Ma Bell]

1 hour ago, Host Anne said:

I've sailed on all classes of Celebrity ships over the years from Zenith to Edge.  We've enjoyed them all.  We recently experienced the IV and SS on Edge (we upgraded as I seriously disliked the IV).  My issue with the revolution of all the other ships in the fleet is that they are overwhelming white/light colors.  It makes for much brighter environs but it is going to be impossible to keep the white/light furniture, etc. clean.  On Edge, the white furniture at the Rooftop Garden was already very dirty (after one month of sailing); the light colored couch in our SS already showed stains.  I think keeping the "revolutionized" ships looking clean and bright is going to be very difficult.  There were other areas (wooden staircase; chairs at the Sunset Bar) that were already showing an unusual amount of wear and tear after a very short time.  

 

It will be interesting to see how good upkeep on Celebrity ships is moving forward.

I agree Anne. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would realize that this was not a good idea.  Between the very light colors and the flimsy furniture they are going to have some serious expense to replace soft goods. Seems counterproductive to me.

[Aralim]

39 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

The older ships are not being "Oasisized", and there are plenty of RCCL fans who want nothing to do with the mega ships.

 

The AMPED program Royal is implementing right now on every Freedom and Voyager class ship is all about bringing Oasis class features to the older ships, especially features introduced on Symphony of the Seas -- Sky Pad, water slides, laser tag, Playmakers Sports Bar, etc. And why are those features being put into the other ships? Because people have indicated overwhelmingly that they like them.

 

Only ships in their fleet not getting AMPED are Radiance and Vision class, which are aging out of the fleet and will likely be sold off in the next decade or so.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Aralim

[Canuker]

This topic is as much about the OP as it is about Celebrity.
We do not know the demographics of the OP but we do know that Celebrity is desperately trying to attract more adults (plus their children) under the age of retirement. 
An obvious move is the improvements to wi-fi. Many people with phones/tablets/whatever will not dream of leaving their home without them, never mind getting on an ocean-going ship. The industry is aware that this aspect has been sadly lacking for many years. Rightly or wrongly, business is having to cater to this demographic if it wants to prosper. I've witnessed a teenager lose it at our large MDR table because she couldn't get a signal on her phone in the mid-Atlantic. Not a pretty sight/sound.
And putting none too fine a point on it, those over 60 are moving towards their best-by date and will need to be replaced with others if the cruise industry - not just Celebrity - is to survive. 
The days of the roofed-in, over-heated 'solarium' with folk under blankets, eyes closed and mouths ajar, may be on the way out. "Why do they let kids play in this pool!?"
And I understand people don't like the "C" word. Lord knows, we have enough examples of that these days; as we age, the idea of change becomes increasingly alien. 
If you're a cruise company, one great disadvantage is that your planning time-line is decades. Trying to predict the future and people's wants and desires that far ahead is, arguably, a mug's game. But plan for it they do and they are quit aware that they will alienate some people along the way.
How would you handle it?

[Ma Bell]

44 minutes ago, Canuker said:

This topic is as much about the OP as it is about Celebrity.
We do not know the demographics of the OP but we do know that Celebrity is desperately trying to attract more adults (plus their children) under the age of retirement. 
An obvious move is the improvements to wi-fi. Many people with phones/tablets/whatever will not dream of leaving their home without them, never mind getting on an ocean-going ship. The industry is aware that this aspect has been sadly lacking for many years. Rightly or wrongly, business is having to cater to this demographic if it wants to prosper. I've witnessed a teenager lose it at our large MDR table because she couldn't get a signal on her phone in the mid-Atlantic. Not a pretty sight/sound.
And putting none too fine a point on it, those over 60 are moving towards their best-by date and will need to be replaced with others if the cruise industry - not just Celebrity - is to survive. 
The days of the roofed-in, over-heated 'solarium' with folk under blankets, eyes closed and mouths ajar, may be on the way out. "Why do they let kids play in this pool!?"
And I understand people don't like the "C" word. Lord knows, we have enough examples of that these days; as we age, the idea of change becomes increasingly alien. 
If you're a cruise company, one great disadvantage is that your planning time-line is decades. Trying to predict the future and people's wants and desires that far ahead is, arguably, a mug's game. But plan for it they do and they are quit aware that they will alienate some people along the way.
How would you handle it?

If that is the demographic they are trying to appeal to good luck with that. We all know that there isn't any reason for anyone to go anywhere in person. Just give them a "virtual" experience and they're happy. Heaven forbid that anyone would actually interface with another human being.

[ipeeinthepool]

1 hour ago, First family said:

A cruise is a cruise and it’s what you make of it. When I was young with no issues I sailed across all categories, including inside. Back then my time was spent on deck so why not? I choose a suite for the space and service. I need the help!  I travel with DH who is now mobility disabled, DS who has autism, and a friend to help me with both of them. Four people, wheelchair, scooter, oxygen equipment, CPAC, extension cord, distilled water, a bag of meds.....and that’s for one. My son doesn’t participate much with others, he prefers to stay in the suite and play his video games or music. Fine dining is a painful experience for him so he gets room service. He lives on pizza and cheeseburgers in the room, and that’s his vacation. He loves it. Me?  My vacation consists of having a butler. Someone to pamper me for a week is bliss. Usually by the time I take a cruise, I really need a cruise. 

 

No one is blaming you for sailing in a suite.  If you can afford it and it is a good value for you, great enjoy your suite.  But my response was to the guy in the suite who said life is good where’s the problem.  I’m sure Celebrity is going out of their way to make the suites nice, but that doesn’t benefit the vast majority of passengers who are not suite passengers. 

[First family]

All of the cabins are being revamped so everyone will benefit. Clean, modern, brand new. It’s my understanding that Murano and Normandy restaurants are gone and Tuscan Grille will become smaller. The buffet area will have stations like on the S class ships. They are adding more cabins in place of those specialty restaurants. It sounds like the suite passengers are a bit upset with the modernization, but I’m ok with that as long as service and food quality doesn’t decline. 

[mnocket]

The only thing I'm sure of is that Celebrity's goal is to get a return on investment in revamping their fleet.  Whether this means ensuring that their current customer base continues to sail their ships, or instead making changes to appeal to a new clientele, I don't know.  What seems to worry some is that based on the Edge, Celebrity seems to be heading in the direction of attracting a new clientele at the possible expense of their existing base.  Only time will tell.

[screwsmcernst]

It seems to me "Edgeifying"  the rest of the fleet mainly means redoing all the suites and allocating more of the public areas for suites only areas while doing little for the people who don't book suites.  I hope I'm wrong.  We shall see come Oct.  

[jelayne]

1 hour ago, screwsmcernst said:

It seems to me "Edgeifying"  the rest of the fleet mainly means redoing all the suites and allocating more of the public areas for suites only areas while doing little for the people who don't book suites.  I hope I'm wrong.  We shall see come Oct.  

 

They are redoing all the cabins, not just the Suites.  The MDR, buffet and restaurants are getting a redo as are the lounges,  bars, spa, shops: the entire ship.  I don't know where you got the impression that only the suites we getting redone.  If you take a look at the Celebrity site you can see photos of the look of the redone MDR, Sunset Bar, Rendezvous Lounge, spa and staterooms.

[kearney]

I had my doubts about the color scheme on Edge. I am not a fan of gray... but it was more of a taupe color...so warmer than gray. Anyway I thought it would be terribly dull... but in the IV cabin.. the lack of strong base color and the large uncluttered veranda window... pulls your eyes to the view and not so much on the cabin. My concern on the updates... is whether or not they keep the sky lounge. As a non suite passenger... I loved going to the Sky lounge every afternoon... around 5 dressed for dinner... for cocktails and to watch the ship depart whatever port we were in. Somehow looking out the back of the ship through greenery... just isn't the same. The Edge concept was intended to disrupt... and as such will shake things up... they will lose some and gain others... I do think that it would have been a good idea to hold off the changes to existing ships a bit to wait for feed back... but I think it was Henry Ford that said if he had asked potential customers what they want... they would not have said 'the car', but 'faster horses'. I liked the Edge... I just don't like the current prices.... To be honest... I really did not like the Elvis Vegas design of the main dining room on the S class... but never thought to comment on it... there is so much more to cruising than some of the design features. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

7 hours ago, Aralim said:

 

The AMPED program Royal is implementing right now on every Freedom and Voyager class ship is all about bringing Oasis class features to the older ships, especially features introduced on Symphony of the Seas -- Sky Pad, water slides, laser tag, Playmakers Sports Bar, etc. And why are those features being put into the other ships? Because people have indicated overwhelmingly that they like them.

 

Only ships in their fleet not getting AMPED are Radiance and Vision class, which are aging out of the fleet and will likely be sold off in the next decade or so.

 

It sounds like you're talking about updated features that have recently been introduced, rather that Oasis concepts, as it was originally designed.  Neighborhoods, inside verandas, Aqua Theater diving shows, zip lines, and a rising tide bar, are what I would consider Oasis innovations.

 

Oasis is to Solstice, as Quantum is to Edge.  I say, let's figure out what people overwhelmingly like, before spreading it to the rest of the fleet.  RCCL almost used the wrong class of ship to do so.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Stateroom_Sailor

[Stateroom_Sailor]

7 hours ago, Canuker said:

If you're a cruise company, one great disadvantage is that your planning time-line is decades. Trying to predict the future and people's wants and desires that far ahead is, arguably, a mug's game. But plan for it they do and they are quit aware that they will alienate some people along the way.
How would you handle it?

 

Smooth transition towards Gen X, and beyond.  Axe the nods to Abba and Village people, and swap them out for music of the 70's that Gen X likes (Aerosmith, David Bowie, Funk, and New Wave).  I would copy the decor of modern hotels that boomers and millennials both like, such as Hyatt and Ritz Carlton.  Use colors and materials that are durable and stain resistant.  Do better research into the practicality of concepts created by people who've never been on a ship before.

 

For Millennials, I would create a points based currency, transferable with American Express or Chase, and at least one major hotel chain and airline.  Give the new ship regionally authentic specialty restaurants, have it overnight in more ports, and partner with a tech media company like TED.

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

If any cruise line is going to succeed with Millennials, my prediction is that it will be Virgin.  So I agree with Stateroom_Sailor that Celebrity would be better off focusing on Gen X.  Change your focus one decade at a time, and you won't risk losing the old geezers ["I resemble that remark!"] while you build your new customer base.