Cruisers and terrorism

[Port Power]

On 3/19/2019 at 6:17 AM, Aquahound said:

Anyone remember the pirate attack on the Seabourn Spirit?

 

Our cruise director on Azamara Quest (now on Pursuit) was on that ship at the time and gives an excellent talk and slide presentation. As Cheng said, speed was the main exit strategy, plus high pitched noise blasters.

[ontheweb]

On 3/21/2019 at 1:44 PM, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Wow, I haven't given a moment's thought to any of this.

And I still don't.

Life is too short to spend time worrying  and obsessing about EXTREME low probability events.  If you have to find something to worry and obsess about, there are many many better alternatives.  Traffic accidents, getting cancer, botched medical procedure, hometown crime, to name a few.

Or, you could just recognize that we are all going to die someday, and an instant after it happens, how it happened won't matter - so just live your life and enjoy it while you can.

Your life is far more likely to be shortened by the stress of worrying about terrorist attacks than it is to be shortened by an actual terrorist attack.

I wish I could LOL at this, but we actually had a traffic accident coming home from out last cruise (I guess technically coming home after staying a few days at the disembarkation port). Luckily, the only "casualty" was my car's side view mirror on the driver's side.

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, Port Power said:

Our cruise director on Azamara Quest (now on Pursuit) was on that ship at the time and gives an excellent talk and slide presentation. As Cheng said, speed was the main exit strategy, plus high pitched noise blasters.

 

Speed is why the big ocean liners were used as troop transports in ww2.  They were fast enough to outrun subs.  If you take the tour of the Queen Mary in Long Beach CA they have some berths that recreate the conditions in which the troops traveled.  I believe that class of travel did not include butlers, lol.

 

[lenquixote66]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Let me start by saying I have been a very active world traveler for over fifty years.  Even now (in my 70s) both DW and I consider ourselves adventurous travelers/cruisers and generally go off on our own in most places around the world.  And the real "horror" is we live in Mexico for part of the year....where we feel far safer then just about anywhere in the USA (go figure).

 

Life is full of risk and we gamble every time we walk up or down steps (one could fall, hit their head, and die) or go out of the house.  One takes a risk driving a car, crossing the street, eating food, etc, etc.  Most folks handle day to day activities without being overly concerned about security and it is the same for many travelers.  For those that choose (or obsess) on their personal security...there is nothing any of us can say or do to ease their anxiety.  If you choose to live your life by always worrying about "what can happen" or if you have that type of uncontrollable obsession, then you have put yourself into a prison of your own making.  Like most who are in prison, you make your own bed and must live in it!  

 

So let us be very honest.  Risk is part of life and most of us handle it without a lot of thought.  Others have personal issues which can go to the extreme such as folks who suffer with agoraphobia!   We have actually met a few folks (on our cruises) who ask us for advice on how to do ports DIY and then tell us that they are afraid to leave the ship unless they are part of a cruise line excursion.   They explain that although they would like to do things on their own, they just cannot deal with all the anxiety of doing their own thing, making their own decisions, and constantly worrying about missing the ship.  And our quick response to those folks is "take cruise line excursions"  (while I am thinking...please do not waste my time asking for DIY advice).

 

Are cruise ships at risk of a terrorist incident?  Yes, just like just about anything these days.  The reality is that your risk is greater in ports and just getting from home to ship (and vice versa).  Although this sounds somewhat "insensitive" (a too popular word these days) you either learn to live with your personal insecurities or suffer the consequences.  We have a few friends that are truly afraid to travel (they could probably write a book about all their fears) so they just stay at home (or near home).  

 

On a lighter note, DW one bought me a T-Shirt that had written on it, in Italian, " Schettino, get back on your ship"  The actual words are not appropriate for a T-shirt so that is watered down (pun intended).

 

When it comes to terrorists, when we let them dictate how we live our lives they have won!

 

Hank

My wife and I began traveling outside of the US in 1969. We have personally never had any accidents anywhere on a vacation but I have had 35 falls in the US.

[lenquixote66]

15 hours ago, pris993 said:

A few years back, we boarded a cruise ship and noticed security personnel were actually former military personnel from Israel, my husband speaks Hebrew, lived in Israel for 12 years and was in the army before immigrating to the USA.  He noticed them right off and spoke to them in Hebrew.  We later invited them to our cabin for a social hour during their off duty time.  We learn the cruise line hired  them because of their training.  Part of their responsibilities included using scuba gear to check out the ship below the water line when in ports.  I am sure there are a lot of security issues considered by cruise lines.  I mention this one because it something not obvious. 

I too speak Hebrew and  have met quite a few crew members from Israel.

[PapaSquatch]

If I were paranoid, I wouldn't leave home.

If I were worried, I wouldn't board a ship going to foreign countries.

In Missouri, I prepare for tornadoes. I listened/heeded storm alerts for years. My father-n-law had some of the same comments as above about being paranoid, etc. But just a few yrs ago, a twister missed our home by 1200ft. Missed my inlaws by half that. Guess who got a weather radio, and considered a storm shelter till he passed.

My questions are my attempts to keep my family as safe as possible, if by nothing more than knowledge. Do you check safety ratings on potential new vehicles? Do you check locations of EXITS in case of fire or other emergency evacuations? Do you have a CCW? All the same. 

And yes, I agree, the possibility of some terrorist attack upon such a target may be very slim, but not impossible. Just think, how many of us would have thought September 11, 2001 would have happened as it did?

Please continue. I found the hiring of retired Israeli military the most interesting this far.

 

[lenquixote66]

6 minutes ago, PapaSquatch said:

If I were paranoid, I wouldn't leave home.

If I were worried, I wouldn't board a ship going to foreign countries.

In Missouri, I prepare for tornadoes. I listened/heeded storm alerts for years. My father-n-law had some of the same comments as above about being paranoid, etc. But just a few yrs ago, a twister missed our home by 1200ft. Missed my inlaws by half that. Guess who got a weather radio, and considered a storm shelter till he passed.

My questions are my attempts to keep my family as safe as possible, if by nothing more than knowledge. Do you check safety ratings on potential new vehicles? Do you check locations of EXITS in case of fire or other emergency evacuations? Do you have a CCW? All the same. 

And yes, I agree, the possibility of some terrorist attack upon such a target may be very slim, but not impossible. Just think, how many of us would have thought September 11, 2001 would have happened as it did?

Please continue. I found the hiring of retired Israeli military the most interesting this far.

 

 

6 minutes ago, PapaSquatch said:

If I were paranoid, I wouldn't leave home.

If I were worried, I wouldn't board a ship going to foreign countries.

In Missouri, I prepare for tornadoes. I listened/heeded storm alerts for years. My father-n-law had some of the same comments as above about being paranoid, etc. But just a few yrs ago, a twister missed our home by 1200ft. Missed my inlaws by half that. Guess who got a weather radio, and considered a storm shelter till he passed.

My questions are my attempts to keep my family as safe as possible, if by nothing more than knowledge. Do you check safety ratings on potential new vehicles? Do you check locations of EXITS in case of fire or other emergency evacuations? Do you have a CCW? All the same. 

And yes, I agree, the possibility of some terrorist attack upon such a target may be very slim, but not impossible. Just think, how many of us would have thought September 11, 2001 would have happened as it did?

Please continue. I found the hiring of retired Israeli military the most interesting this far.

 

 In 1997 I was mugged.The guy put a gun to my head,pulled the  trigger.The gun jammed  and I was able to get away. On September 11,2001 I had an appointment to be in the World Trade Center at 9AM.My appointment was cancelled.In 2002 I slipped on ice and went flying head first through the glass door of a store.

I have not stopped leaving my house.

[Hlitner]

59 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

My wife and I began traveling outside of the US in 1969. We have personally never had any accidents anywhere on a vacation but I have had 35 falls in the US.

35 Falls!  My goodness, I cannot count that high (only have 10 fingers).  It seems to me that terrorism is the least of your problems.  DW and I get calls several times a year from a Medicare contractor who wants to pay us a visit to assess our living situation vis a vis falls.  Perhaps we should give them your name :).  On the other hand, you are still walking and breathing so perhaps you were born under a very lucky star.

 

Hnak

[sfaaa]

5 hours ago, Port Power said:

Our cruise director on Azamara Quest (now on Pursuit) was on that ship at the time and gives an excellent talk and slide presentation. As Cheng said, speed was the main exit strategy, plus high pitched noise blasters.

Hard to outrun a speed boat or RPG. Even harder to fight off the bad guys when they are already onboard masquerating as passengers or crewmen. The danger close scenarios can be numerous and unpredictable.

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Speed is why the big ocean liners were used as troop transports in ww2.  They were fast enough to outrun subs.  If you take the tour of the Queen Mary in Long Beach CA they have some berths that recreate the conditions in which the troops traveled.  I believe that class of travel did not include butlers, lol.

 

True but also no gratuities, win some lose some.

[MicCanberra]

 

53 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

 

 In 1997 I was mugged.The guy put a gun to my head,pulled the  trigger.The gun jammed  and I was able to get away. On September 11,2001 I had an appointment to be in the World Trade Center at 9AM.My appointment was cancelled.In 2002 I slipped on ice and went flying head first through the glass door of a store.

I have not stopped leaving my house.

Wow, that would put the frighteners on me.

[CPT Trips]

3 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Speed is why the big ocean liners were used as troop transports in ww2.  They were fast enough to outrun subs.  If you take the tour of the Queen Mary in Long Beach CA they have some berths that recreate the conditions in which the troops traveled.  I believe that class of travel did not include butlers, lol.

 

 

I  wouldn't L too L. When the Canadians were being transported, each commissioned officer had his batman.  

[calliopecruiser]

3 hours ago, PapaSquatch said:

My questions are my attempts to keep my family as safe as possible, if by nothing more than knowledge. Do you check safety ratings on potential new vehicles? Do you check locations of EXITS in case of fire or other emergency evacuations? Do you have a CCW? All the same. 

And yes, I agree, the possibility of some terrorist attack upon such a target may be very slim, but not impossible.

Well, it's also possible that the shopping mall, concert, or basketball game could be attacked too, but I don't spend a lot of time (OK, any time) thinking about what I would or could do about it.  I think very little about how I could die at any hour of any day from any one of many causes, some natural, some accidental, and some intentional. 

No, I don't check the locations of the exits when I go somewhere, and I don't even know what a CCW is.  (Isn't that something you decline when you're renting a car?)  Do I check the safety ratings on potential new vehicles?  No, but I do check the safety equipment data of the vehicle (what it has or doesn't have)....but that's not the same thing at all.  The chances of a vehicular accident are far, far, far greater than the chance of terrorists.  Hey, they're far greater than the airplane flying you to the port will crash. 

[MicCanberra]

6 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

 

I  wouldn't L too L. When the Canadians were being transported, each commissioned officer had his batman.  

That vigilante gets around.

[MicCanberra]

4 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Well, it's also possible that the shopping mall, concert, or basketball game could be attacked too, but I don't spend a lot of time (OK, any time) thinking about what I would or could do about it.  I think very little about how I could die at any hour of any day from any one of many causes, some natural, some accidental, and some intentional. 

No, I don't check the locations of the exits when I go somewhere, and I don't even know what a CCW is.  (Isn't that something you decline when you're renting a car?)  Do I check the safety ratings on potential new vehicles?  No, but I do check the safety equipment data of the vehicle (what it has or doesn't have)....but that's not the same thing at all.  The chances of a vehicular accident are far, far, far greater than the chance of terrorists.  Hey, they're far greater than the airplane flying you to the port will crash. 

Like you I don't worry about many of these things but I do take note of my surroundings, especially when travelling. I look out for suspicious activity like people loitering around the airport with no bags.

[Gwendy]

Nothing beats continual vigilance, if you feel uncomfortable get out of there.  We crossed the road in Noumea once, then I saw a group of boys in park, said to my daughter we are crossing the road again, she just followed along, trusts my judgement.  Please don’t misinterpret my comment, lovely people in Noumea, but like everywhere sometimes you feel uncomfortable.

 

we both travel a lot on our own so each of us has good radar.

[MicCanberra]

7 minutes ago, Gwendy said:

Nothing beats continual vigilance, if you feel uncomfortable get out of there.  We crossed the road in Noumea once, then I saw a group of boys in park, said to my daughter we are crossing the road again, she just followed along, trusts my judgement.  Please don’t misinterpret my comment, lovely people in Noumea, but like everywhere sometimes you feel uncomfortable.

 

we both travel a lot on our own so each of us has good radar.

Yep, prepared to say that vigilance has saved our skins and wallets numerous times.

[calliopecruiser]

7 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

but I do take note of my surroundings, especially when travelling. I look out for suspicious activity like people loitering around the airport with no bags.

Ah, being aware of the people around you....that's different.  That's the way virtually all women live all of their lives, all of the time 😞

[Aplmac]

19 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 If you take the tour of the Queen Mary in Long Beach CA

they have some berths that recreate the conditions in which the troops traveled.

 I believe that class of travel did not include butlers, lol. ===> No Concierge??

.

Your post reminded me that I have a few photos of old-time

cabin arrangements.

 

Queen Mary 1 -LONG time ago!

Let me not hear any of you complaining, ever again!

.

[sail7seas]

Think Achile Lauro,,,,,,   terrorism at sea in the early 70's(  or was it late 60's ?)

 

 

Hundreds of millions of people have cruised safely since.

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

23 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

My wife and I began traveling outside of the US in 1969. We have personally never had any accidents anywhere on a vacation but I have had 35 falls in the US.

While docked inCuracao, some years ago,  the company   that insures HAL had divers on site at the doc k and sent   those divers down to check the hull.  After seeing that it   made me think  that   many of the ships / cruise lines could possibly  have crew who are divers  that  check the hull regularly in port to be certain, no evil meaning  someone   attached anything while the ship was in port.

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

[sfaaa]

Remember terrorists only need to get lucky once. And they get to pick the time and place to strike.

[MicCanberra]

7 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Ah, being aware of the people around you....that's different.  That's the way virtually all women live all of their lives, all of the time 😞

Everyone should but many do not. It doesn't matter how right you were if you still end up hurt.

[calliopecruiser]

13 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Everyone should but many do not.

I disagree, and I think it's a shame that most women feel they need to live their lives that way.  Living in fear of what might happen is a horrible way to live, IMO, and I'm kind  of envious of those who don't live their lives that way.  It isn't about right or wrong, it's about living a comfortable or cautious life, about being happy or fearful.

[MicCanberra]

8 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

I disagree, and I think it's a shame that most women feel they need to live their lives that way.  Living in fear of what might happen is a horrible way to live, IMO, and I'm kind  of envious of those who don't live their lives that way.  It isn't about right or wrong, it's about living a comfortable or cautious life, about being happy or fearful.

I do not think being aware of what is happening around you is the same as living in fear but I take your point.