So is it True? 2nd entree fee in MDR??

[fatcat04]

On 3/31/2019 at 1:37 AM, caribill said:

There are two pillows on the beds for each passenger.

 

Why should my cruise costs include a second pillow I never use.

 

HAL should just have one pillow per person and charge $5/night for a second pillow.

True. Oh we could have a ball with extra charges and then everyone's sacred ox will be gored equally and we all will be paying extra for what has traditionally been complimentary. There was big tongue in cheek thread just on this. 

 

Don't worry folks, your especially favorite formerly complimentary perk of cruising will soon feature an upcharge. 

[Bella0714]

2 minutes ago, avian777 said:

 

👍👍👍  Spot on, iancal - great Post!  Good to "hear" from someone who obviously understands business.

Okay, fine, but HAL needs to make sure that people are aware of this policy BEFORE they pay for their cruises, which was apparently not the case with this roll-out test phase, if some previous postings are accurate. Right now, for example, I'm looking at a cruise for November 2021. I certainly don't want to find out after the final payment date that there's a new policy in the MDR. Hopefully, HAL understands business well enough to be aware of this problem.

[avian777]

16 minutes ago, Bella0714 said:

Okay, fine, but HAL needs to make sure that people are aware of this policy BEFORE they pay for their cruises, which was apparently not the case with this roll-out test phase, if some previous postings are accurate. Right now, for example, I'm looking at a cruise for November 2021. I certainly don't want to find out after the final payment date that there's a new policy in the MDR. Hopefully, HAL understands business well enough to be aware of this problem.

 

Are you considering a HAL cruise solely (or mainly) because you want the certainty of knowing that you will be able to order unlimited entrees without being charged extra for them?  If so, you might want to consider another cruise line because, as a responsible corporate entity, HAL has an obligation to charge enough for its goods and services to make a profit for its CCL shareholders (such as yours truly) - this necessarily includes the ability to change its prices for cruises more than 2 years in the future.

Edited April 1, 2019 by avian777

[Bella0714]

53 minutes ago, avian777 said:

 

Are you considering a HAL cruise solely (or mainly) because you want the certainty of knowing that you will be able to order unlimited entrees without being charged extra for them?  If so, you might want to consider another cruise line because, as a responsible corporate entity, HAL has an obligation to charge enough for its goods and services to make a profit for its CCL shareholders (such as yours truly) - this necessarily includes the ability to change its prices for cruises more than 2 years in the future.

No, I'm not, but I also want to know what I'm paying for, especially if I'm purchasing a non-refundable fare. I mean, by your reasoning, as a responsible consumer, I should be allowed to ask for a refund in the price difference if a cruise line drops its price after my final payment is made. Or does it only work one way?

 

I'm taking a chance when I purchase a non-refundable fare. Why is it not fair for HAL to take a chance when it sells them, too? I am not saying that HAL doesn't have the right to charge $10 for additional entrees; I'm just saying that I want to know about it before I make final payment.

 

I am sure HAL takes into account how its costs are going to change over the period of time from when it starts selling cruises to when the cruise departs.

[Copper10-8]

15 hours ago, slidergirl said:

..............................

 

Does anyone have actual proof that you must pay for a replacement entree if you say it is not good (after one or two bites)?  Or, is this just hysteria talking?

 

Hysteria talking! If you tell your waiter you're not happy with your meal, before finishing it of course, they will be be more than happy to get you something else without having to go to jail, not pass Go, and not collect $200, Yes, even on the four "test ships" whose test supposedly was completed yesterday

[Fouremco]

16 minutes ago, Bella0714 said:

No, I'm not, but I also want to know what I'm paying for, especially if I'm purchasing a non-refundable fare. I mean, by your reasoning, as a responsible consumer, I should be allowed to ask for a refund in the price difference if a cruise line drops its price after my final payment is made. Or does it only work one way?

 

I'm taking a chance when I purchase a non-refundable fare. Why is it not fair for HAL to take a chance when it sells them, too? I am not saying that HAL doesn't have the right to charge $10 for additional entrees; I'm just saying that I want to know about it before I make final payment.

 

I am sure HAL takes into account how its costs are going to change over the period of time from when it starts selling cruises to when the cruise departs.

I don't think that you'll get much of an argument here that at final payment it would be nice to know exactly what you are paying for, but the reality is that most (all?) cruise lines implement changes as they see fit, on their timetables. So if they decide to raise the price of drinks, they don't try to time the introduction of the new prices to suit your personal payment schedule. Besides, the passenger in the cabin next to you might be on a b2b2b cruise with a final payment date weeks before yours, pushing any announcement even earlier. What about related changes? Once you have purchased a beverage package, should HAL have to freeze the price of drinks until after your cruise?

 

Is it fair? Probably not, but it is typical of the industry. 

[Bella0714]

21 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I don't think that you'll get much of an argument here that at final payment it would be nice to know exactly what you are paying for, but the reality is that most (all?) cruise lines implement changes as they see fit, on their timetables. So if they decide to raise the price of drinks, they don't try to time the introduction of the new prices to suit your personal payment schedule. Besides, the passenger in the cabin next to you might be on a b2b2b cruise with a final payment date weeks before yours, pushing any announcement even earlier. What about related changes? Once you have purchased a beverage package, should HAL have to freeze the price of drinks until after your cruise?

 

Is it fair? Probably not, but it is typical of the industry. 

I don't think raising drink prices is an issue because HAL doesn't really advertise its drink menu. All they say is that if you buy so and so package, you can have any drink up to a menu price of $9, for example. Now, if they changed that limit to $8 or changed the per-day drink limit from 15 to 12, I'd have a problem with that.

 

Unlimited entrees in the MDR are expected; it's been something that's been going on for as far back as most people can remember, and to not explicitly state that there's now a charge for extra entrees before advertising a cruise is, to me, unfair. HAL doesn't have to sell cruises two years in advance, but they choose to. Why? Because it's to their advantage. But, much as a customer can't have it both ways if they buy a nonrefundable fare only to have the price decrease, HAL can't have it both ways if it sells something at a certain price and then decides that that price isn't enough.

 

I also think there's a wide perception that cruise lines, including HAL, are always in their customers' pockets, trying to wrench every penny out of them. Sometimes on a cruise, it's so obvious as to become uncomfortable. I think this practice, if implemented, would add to that perception. It's part of the reason I'll never understand why anyone would be loyal to a cruise line, other than for frequent cruiser perks. I've never seen a cruise line that deserved loyalty.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Bella0714

[drowelf]

On 3/31/2019 at 1:04 PM, VennDiagram said:

 

To be fair, there are plenty of us who do not order a second entree, who still think this is unacceptable.

And there are plenty who don't abuse the system and only occasionally order a second entree and think this is unacceptable too. 

 

I think there are plenty of other ways to cut down on waste other than charging for a 2nd entree. I think of all the photography paper and flyers that end up in the rubbish bin on each cruise. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by drowelf

[avian777]

1 hour ago, Bella0714 said:

No, I'm not, but I also want to know what I'm paying for, especially if I'm purchasing a non-refundable fare. I mean, by your reasoning, as a responsible consumer, I should be allowed to ask for a refund in the price difference if a cruise line drops its price after my final payment is made. Or does it only work one way?

 

I'm taking a chance when I purchase a non-refundable fare. Why is it not fair for HAL to take a chance when it sells them, too? I am not saying that HAL doesn't have the right to charge $10 for additional entrees; I'm just saying that I want to know about it before I make final payment.

 

I am sure HAL takes into account how its costs are going to change over the period of time from when it starts selling cruises to when the cruise departs.

 

It appears as though you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.  In an effort to extend an olive branch to you, however, I will suggest that you look at other cruise lines, as I'd hate for you to be disappointed (angry) if HAL should increase any of its prices between now and November 2021 and forget to personally notify you of those price increases.

[Fouremco]

3 minutes ago, Bella0714 said:

I don't think raising drink prices is an issue because HAL doesn't really advertise its drink menu. All they say is that if you buy so and so package, you can have any drink up to a menu price of $9, for example. Now, if they changed that limit to $8 or changed the per-day drink limit from 15 to 12, I'd have a problem with that.

 

Unlimited entrees in the MDR are expected; it's been something that's been going on for as far back as most people can remember, and to not explicitly state that there's now a charge for extra entrees before advertising a cruise is, to me, unfair. HAL doesn't have to sell cruises two years in advance, but they choose to. Why? Because it's to their advantage. But, much as a customer can't have it both ways if they buy a nonrefundable fare only to have the price decrease, HAL can't have it both ways if it sells something at a certain price and then decides that that price isn't enough.

 

 

On the issue of beverage packages, you are correct, HAL hasn't dropped the limit to $8 or reduced the number of drinks to 12. What they have done, however, is increase the price of drinks so what was under $9 is now over that limit and no longer available to the beverage package holder. This is particularly noticeable when looking at the greatly reduced choice of wines. HAL will normally increase the BP limit to address the increased prices, but not necessarily at the same time.

 

While you might have expected free unlimited entrées, nowhere does it state, explicitly or otherwise, that you are entitled to them. That's disappointing, and as I said earlier, probably not fair, but that's reality. I remember when we had decent sized tables at which to eat on our balcony, but those and many other things have gone over time. The jury is still out on whether HAL will do away with free second entrées. 

[avian777]

9 minutes ago, drowelf said:

...  I think there are plenty of other was to cut down on waste other than charging for a 2nd entree. I think of all the photography paper and flyers that end up in the rubbish bin on each cruise. 

 

Good idea - my preference is for HAL to do both: start charging for a 2nd (& 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.) entree and eliminate a lot of the photography paper and flyers that (actually) are recycled.

[slidergirl]

Another question:  Anyone here order the extra entree and disputed the $10 because you weren't informed before the cruise that the charge was in effect?  Did you successfully dispute or were you told to suck it up?   Did anyone pull the "I'm a 5 star Mariner on my 200th trip on HAL so I am entitled to extra food for free"?  Curious what kind of things people actually did to try to avoid the charge during the test.  

 

 

[Bella0714]

15 minutes ago, avian777 said:

 

Good idea - my preference is for HAL to do both: start charging for a 2nd (& 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.) entree and eliminate a lot of the photography paper and flyers that (actually) are recycled.

avian,777 are you at least a little offended by HAL pretending that they're trying to cut down on waste when what they're really doing is trying to increase profits? If they really cared about cutting down on waste, they'd serve better food in the dining room so people weren't always trying one entree after another just to get to one that's satisfactory. I know they can't come out and say, "We're trying to make more money," but they also don't have to insult our intelligence with this "cutting down on waste" line.

[avian777]

1 hour ago, Bella0714 said:

avian,777 are you at least a little offended by HAL pretending that they're trying to cut down on waste when what they're really doing is trying to increase profits? If they really cared about cutting down on waste, they'd serve better food in the dining room so people weren't always trying one entree after another just to get to one that's satisfactory. I know they can't come out and say, "We're trying to make more money," but they also don't have to insult our intelligence with this "cutting down on waste" line.

 

If this were truly an "either-or" situation, I would be (a little) offended if HAL used "waste reduction" to  justify its actions when its real objective was to increase profits.  However, I know that most corporate actions are based on more than one reason and have more than one objective.  IMHO and based on my experience in business, this is a classic example of a corporation having multiple reasons and objectives.

[Bella0714]

12 minutes ago, avian777 said:

 

If this were truly an "either-or" situation, I would be (a little) offended if HAL used "waste reduction" to  justify its actions when its real objective was to increase profits.  However, I know that most corporate actions are based on more than one reason and have more than one objective.  IMHO and based on my experience in business, this is a classic example of a corporation having multiple reasons and objectives.

You're right, we're going to have to agree to disagree! But I appreciate your point of view. I agree that there are probably multiple reasons and objectives, but the skeptic in me doubts that any of them including cutting down on waste.

[avian777]

1 minute ago, Bella0714 said:

You're right, we're going to have to agree to disagree! But I appreciate your point of view. I agree that there are probably multiple reasons and objectives, but the skeptic in me doubts that any of them including cutting down on waste.

👌 👍 😎 Good luck & smooth sailing, whether or not you choose HAL.

[Windsailer]

1 hour ago, avian777 said:

 

If this were truly an "either-or" situation, I would be (a little) offended if HAL used "waste reduction" to  justify its actions when its real objective was to increase profits.  However, I know that most corporate actions are based on more than one reason and have more than one objective.  IMHO and based on my experience in business, this is a classic example of a corporation having multiple reasons and objectives.

However, that's exactly what HAL did .

 

Here's what HAL said on March 1, 2019:

 

(9:50 a.m. EST) -- In an effort to crack down on food waste, Holland America Line is testing a menu upcharge in the main dining room of four ships.

Passengers sailing on Nieuw Amsterdam, Eurodam, Zuiderdam and Oosterdam will notice the option to order a second entree for $10. First courses as well as starters, desserts and other menu items will continue to be offered on a complimentary basis, in traditional main dining room fashion; there will be no additional fee to order a second starter or dessert.

"Over the years we have upgraded the menu, and we have experienced that guests occasionally order additional main courses they simply can't finish," a spokesperson for Holland America told Cruise Critic. "Holland America Line has made great efforts to reduce food waste and with this we can better determine if guests who order a second entree will truly enjoy it."

One test involves charging $10 for a second entree only on Gala Nights, while a second trial charges $10 every night. Holland America plans to evaluate the results in late March 2019 and make a decision based on its findings."

 

So feel free to be offended. 

 

As an aside I do disagree with one comment that HAL made.  Perhaps it happened very, very recently but I haven't seen an upgrade in the menu. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Windsailer

[SeagoingMom]

2 hours ago, Windsailer said:

However, that's exactly what HAL did .

 

Here's what HAL said on March 1, 2019:

 

(9:50 a.m. EST) -- In an effort to crack down on food waste, Holland America Line is testing a menu upcharge in the main dining room of four ships.

Passengers sailing on Nieuw Amsterdam, Eurodam, Zuiderdam and Oosterdam will notice the option to order a second entree for $10. First courses as well as starters, desserts and other menu items will continue to be offered on a complimentary basis, in traditional main dining room fashion; there will be no additional fee to order a second starter or dessert.

"Over the years we have upgraded the menu, and we have experienced that guests occasionally order additional main courses they simply can't finish," a spokesperson for Holland America told Cruise Critic. "Holland America Line has made great efforts to reduce food waste and with this we can better determine if guests who order a second entree will truly enjoy it."

One test involves charging $10 for a second entree only on Gala Nights, while a second trial charges $10 every night. Holland America plans to evaluate the results in late March 2019 and make a decision based on its findings."

 

So feel free to be offended. 

 

As an aside I do disagree with one comment that HAL made.  Perhaps it happened very, very recently but I haven't seen an upgrade in the menu. 

Would you please give the source of the HAL statement? When I googled "HAL dining room surcharge," I found other websites quoting Cruise Critic as their source of information!!  My quick search on the HAL website turned up nothing on the subject.

 

We were on Oosterdam recently and the Gala night menu did refer to a $10 surcharge for an extra entree. We did not test the waters.

[Windsailer]

13 hours ago, SeagoingMom said:

Would you please give the source of the HAL statement? When I googled "HAL dining room surcharge," I found other websites quoting Cruise Critic as their source of information!!  My quick search on the HAL website turned up nothing on the subject.

 

We were on Oosterdam recently and the Gala night menu did refer to a $10 surcharge for an extra entree. We did not test the waters.

It was in the News section of CC on March 1st that the CC Editors write. The article quoted a spokesman for HAL as you can see from the article. 

[CruiseRQA]

Can we stop saying that dining in the MDR is "complimentary"?   I think we all paid for it. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

Can we stop saying that dining in the MDR is "complimentary"?   I think we all paid for it. 

 

True. And we shouldn't have to pay for it a second time.

[Eileen G]

I am on the Oosterdam and on Gala night my husband ordered a second entree. He wanted to try the mushroom risotto. Nothing was said about a $10 upcharge and there was nothing on the menu about it either. Tonight is the second Gala night and I know he will order two lobsters so we will see what the waiter says.

[Roz]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 9:14 AM, Eileen G said:

I am on the Oosterdam and on Gala night my husband ordered a second entree. He wanted to try the mushroom risotto. Nothing was said about a $10 upcharge and there was nothing on the menu about it either. Tonight is the second Gala night and I know he will order two lobsters so we will see what the waiter says.

I don't equate mushroom risotto with prime rib, duck breast, rack of lamb, etc.  It's relatively low cost, and in most cases, unless you're a vegan or vegetarian, is a side dish.  I wouldn't pay $10 for a taste of it.

 

Roz

[slidergirl]

2 hours ago, Roz said:

I don't equate mushroom risotto with prime rib, duck breast, rack of lamb, etc.  It's relatively low cost, and in most cases, unless you're a vegan or vegetarian, is a side dish.  I wouldn't pay $10 for a taste of it.

 

Roz

 

It's an entree.   Just because some want to strap on the feed bag for meat think meat is the only thing that can be an entree, doesn't make it so.  If it's listed under "entree", it's a freakin' entree, be it a slab of still mooing cow, lamb ribs, a piece of salmon, a large salad, a plate of veggies, or a pasta.  If I order mushroom risotto, love it and would want a second plate of it, I'd pay $10.    I believe part of what was said on here is that HAL was thinking of charging because some order a second entire plate and just do a taste.   Here's an idea: if you want to "sample" or "taste" something, have each of you in your party order a different entree and try it among yourselves.  You get to taste and you don't have to pay... 

 

If you ever made risotto, you would know that it is fairly labor-intensive to make it properly.  Stir constantly, slowly adding broth each time the broth is absorbed.  It's a workout for your arm and wrist.   Cooking meat - put it in the oven/grill/pan, set the timer...  

Edited April 9, 2019 by slidergirl

[3rdGenCunarder]

31 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 

It's an entree.   Just because some want to strap on the feed bag for meat think meat is the only thing that can be an entree, doesn't make it so.  If it's listed under "entree", it's a freakin' entree, be it a slab of still mooing cow, lamb ribs, a piece of salmon, a large salad, a plate of veggies, or a pasta.  If I order mushroom risotto, love it and would want a second plate of it, I'd pay $10.    I believe part of what was said on here is that HAL was thinking of charging because some order a second entire plate and just do a taste.   Here's an idea: if you want to "sample" or "taste" something, have each of you in your party order a different entree and try it among yourselves.  You get to taste and you don't have to pay... 

 

If you ever made risotto, you would know that it is fairly labor-intensive to make it properly.  Stir constantly, slowly adding broth each time the broth is absorbed.  It's a workout for your arm and wrist.   Cooking meat - put it in the oven/grill/pan, set the timer...  

 

"Strap on the feed bag for meat" makes me think of my BIL, who would live on meat and potatoes if my SIL didn't make him eat some veg. 

 

We used to go out to dinner with a couple who did what you suggest.They would order different items, eat half, and then switch.