Why I understand when new cruisers have DSC issues

[Peachypooh]

Our very first cruise was when we were in our 20's on Home Line's

Atlantic. We booked through a local travel agent. Our source of information

was from him and reading the glossy brochures. I don't think the brochures

mentioned tipping but I could have overlooked it.

In any case, the agent  never told us about tipping! And being on a budget we

brought a limited amount of cash with us. Imagine our surprise when

the envelopes were delivered to our cabin. We scraped together

what we could and just barely met the minimum suggested amount.

So.....I guess even with the availability of the internet giving

people information I am thinking they do rely on a travel agent for

information and if the travel agent just assumes they know about

certain things it doesn't get told to them. So I understand...

 

 

[don't-use-real-name]

Yes it is ever so difficult to understand the rules protocol of what is all inclusive and what is left outside

like a hanging dangling particle as extra such as tips.

First time folks using the services of the services industry are apt to be unaware of these things.

If one has worked or been around those who have worked waiting on tables driving a cab doing a job

for hire tips are not foreign elements - but for those whose limited experiences (first time cruisers) the

tipping maybe excused for missing the mark here.

It is especially awkward when the likes of NCL adds the DSC confusing the issue !

"But I thought that I had paid for everything in advance and now you want a tip - a service charge !"

It even more so for seasoned travelers from Europe where tipping may not be the usual expected norm

as it is in the USA.

 

 

 

[erdoran]

3 hours ago, Peachypooh said:

Our very first cruise was when we were in our 20's on Home Line's

Atlantic. We booked through a local travel agent. Our source of information

was from him and reading the glossy brochures. I don't think the brochures

mentioned tipping but I could have overlooked it.

In any case, the agent  never told us about tipping! And being on a budget we

brought a limited amount of cash with us. Imagine our surprise when

the envelopes were delivered to our cabin. We scraped together

what we could and just barely met the minimum suggested amount.

So.....I guess even with the availability of the internet giving

people information I am thinking they do rely on a travel agent for

information and if the travel agent just assumes they know about

certain things it doesn't get told to them. So I understand...

 

 

THANK YOU @Peachypooh I had exactly the same thing happen to me to the tune of $300 in the late 1980's.  No warning, no mention, nothing until the little envelopes showed up.  I was young, naive, hadn't travelled at all ever other than flights to visit family and it didn't occur to me that there would be required (because they were required, the same way a restaurant tip is required) tips.  

 

I think the DSC is MUCH MUCH less of an issue when pax are told about it at booking time BEFORE finalizing the booking.  I don't think it's right when a new cruiser posts how they were surprised by DSC and there's the inevitable barrage of posts how they "should have known about it" - you tip at restaurants, you should read the FAQ's, you should know this is a service industry, etc, etc.  NO - the TA or NCL SHOULD HAVE DISCLOSED IT.  Period.  Being sneaky about it gives a negative perception from the beginning and probably causes a lot of the problems we hear about.  Positioning it as "here it is, it's as much a part of cruising as the 20% tip at a restaurant is, consider it part of the total cost" BEFORE finalizing the booking would, IMHO, eliminate the majority of the problems.

 

I also doubt very much the TA assumes pax know about the DSC.  I think many avoid mentioning it because they want the booking and they want the fare to appear as low as possible to get the customer to sign, the same way the cruiselines advertise the price BEFORE taxes, fees, and autograts - and don't even show the DSC anywhere during the booking process.  I think it is absolutely intentional, figuring once the person has booked, they'll just pay it sooner or later - and if they don't, no problem, it will be added to their onboard account anyway.  The TA isn't required to collect it or make payment arrangements so they avoid having to deal with it.

Edited April 2, 2019 by erdoran

[PTC DAWG]

This is under the FAQ section on NCL...I assume most cruise lines that have a DSC or similar have the same.  

 

 

What is the onboard service charge?

Why is there a service charge?
The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports. How much is the charge? Onboard Service Charges are additional.

 

How much are the service charges?

For bookings made prior to April 1st, 2019, that prepay their service charges before their sail date:

For all ships excluding Norwegian Sky All-Inclusive and Norwegian Sun All-Inclusive

• • $17.50 USD per person per day for The Haven, Concierge and Suites;
  • $14.50 USD per person per day for all other stateroom types
  
  
   

Norwegian Sky All-Inclusive and Norwegian Sun All-Inclusive

• • $23 USD per person per day for Suites;
  • $20 USD per person per day for all other stateroom types

 

For bookings made on or after April 1, 2019 or for sailings April 1, 2019 and beyond whose service charges have not been prepaid:

For all ships excluding Norwegian Sky All-Inclusive and Norwegian Sun All-Inclusive

• • $18 USD per person per day for The Haven, Concierge and Suites
  • $15 USD per person per day for all other stateroom types
  
  
  
   

Norwegian Sky All-Inclusive and Norwegian Sun All-Inclusive

• • $23.50 USD per person per day for Suites
  • $20.50 USD per person per day for all other stateroom types
  
  
   

 

Guests sailing to Hawaii will be charged an additional 4.275% Pre Paid Service Charge GET Tax

 

Are service charges across the board for all guests?
All guests 3 years or older.

 

How do I prepay my service charges?
Contact your travel professional and request that it be added to your cruise reservation. If you have not made final payment this will be included in your final payment amount or if final payment has already been made we will require full payment at the time it is added.

 

At what point in the booking process can the prepaid charges be added?
They can be added at anytime up to 24 hours prior to sailing.

 

Why would I prepay my service charges?
The convenience of pre-paying the service charges allows you to plan your budget prior to your cruise giving you additional freedom while on board.

 

If I cancel my cruise are the service charges refundable?
Yes! The service charges are 100% refundable.

 

If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board?
Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line. We have structured a guest satisfaction program designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently. However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board guest services desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner. It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges.

 

[Peachypooh]

I forgot to mention in my original post that we didn't take our next cruise until 10 years later this time

on Celebrity and they still had the envelope system. We did know about tipping from our last experience but the travel agent

we used (different one) also did not mention it. But we were prepared!

[Oakman58]

We had a similar experience Peachypooh.  My wife had always wanted to take a cruise, me not so much, so when some friends asked us to join them on a Royal Caribbean Cruise we did.  We used the same travel agent our friends had used.  That agent booked us on a morning flight the same day as the cruise (lesson learned).  The envelopes at the end of the cruise came as a surprise and a shock.  It's been so long ago I don't remember how we came up with the money for the envelopes.  It was years before my wife talked me into taking another cruise.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Oakman58

[phillyguy31]

First cruise 4 years ago and before I read anything about the DSC I knew there would be tipping. The ship is entirely a service industry and just like hotels, resorts and just about everywhere you travel now tipping is expected(at least in the US) so when I read further I was please about the DSC it made sense to me. We won't be see the same waiter all the time or other staff so it just made it easier for us. Did we tip our room steward extra? Absolutely, but again being in this culture we knew if he did a great job for us we would give him extra. The FAQ's for NCL are pretty clear about tipping, so I am at a loss about the confusion. If you are not in a suite or have kids in splash academy you don't need to tip unless YOU feel the need to give extra. You just plopped down a couple of grand for the cruise, read the info that they give you. If you don't read it then don't complain.

[Von & John]

On my first cruise, we did know about the tips/envelopes.  My boss @ the time had previously worked on a cruise ship & our Travel Agent, just happened to be his wife...

Next cruise was 10 years later, with sisters, Mother & nephew...  Still Envelopes...

Then 6 years later our next cruise...  Still Envelopes

I don't recall on which cruise after that, at some point it changed from the cash tips to the DSC - this time our agent (different agent) did not inform us & we were actually caught off guard w/ too much cash 🙂 - which we no longer needed for tips...

This was prior to our introduction to Cruise Critic...

[Two Wheels Only]

3 hours ago, erdoran said:

I think the DSC is MUCH MUCH less of an issue when pax are told about it at booking time BEFORE finalizing the booking

 

People see the promo service charges long before finalizing the booking....and some still complain. It's inevitable.

 

I agree that the option to pay the DSC should be given before finalizing booking (some cruiselines have this) as well as the option for travel insurance (some cruiselines have this) but NCL doesn't exactly have the best online booking experience...(not the worst, either).

 

 

 

 

[bonvoyagie]

Started cruising in 2002 NCL had the DSC at that time - only had envelopes for the butler and concierge. My TA explained the DSC - but forgot the butler and concierge. At that time they only accepted cash tips - we were able to scrape enough together to give them an adequate tip. Next time we sailed in a suite - 10yrs later we were able to go to the hotel desk and get a voucher for the tips and it went against our account - another suite 4 yrs later and we were able to use our OBC for the tips.

 

As for the DSC being "up front" on my last three cruises (2012, 2016, and 2020) the option for pre paying the DSC was presented during the booking process - right there along with the 20% tip on the beverage and dining packages.

 

The total amount was right there in front of me - prior to the deposit screen - so at any time during the booking process I could have bowed out if the expense was out of my comfort zone.

 

BTW since they raised the DSC for the suites - I have cut back my tipping a bit.

[PTC DAWG]

5 hours ago, Von & John said:

On my first cruise, we did know about the tips/envelopes.  My boss @ the time had previously worked on a cruise ship & our Travel Agent, just happened to be his wife...

Next cruise was 10 years later, with sisters, Mother & nephew...  Still Envelopes...

Then 6 years later our next cruise...  Still Envelopes

I don't recall on which cruise after that, at some point it changed from the cash tips to the DSC - this time our agent (different agent) did not inform us & we were actually caught off guard w/ too much cash 🙂 - which we no longer needed for tips...

This was prior to our introduction to Cruise Critic...

You cannot ever have too much CASH. 

[erdoran]

2 hours ago, bonvoyagie said:

Started cruising in 2002 NCL had the DSC at that time - only had envelopes for the butler and concierge. My TA explained the DSC - but forgot the butler and concierge. At that time they only accepted cash tips - we were able to scrape enough together to give them an adequate tip. Next time we sailed in a suite - 10yrs later we were able to go to the hotel desk and get a voucher for the tips and it went against our account - another suite 4 yrs later and we were able to use our OBC for the tips.

 

As for the DSC being "up front" on my last three cruises (2012, 2016, and 2020) the option for pre paying the DSC was presented during the booking process - right there along with the 20% tip on the beverage and dining packages.

 

The total amount was right there in front of me - prior to the deposit screen - so at any time during the booking process I could have bowed out if the expense was out of my comfort zone.

 

BTW since they raised the DSC for the suites - I have cut back my tipping a bit.

My TA and NCL both said Butler & concierge are included in higher Haven DSC!  Nothing like a little misdirection/misinformation.

 

It would be so simple and FAIR if, before finalizing the booking, you were asked “do you want to pay DSC now, with final payment, or from your on board account?”

 

[havenfan]

14 hours ago, phillyguy31 said:

First cruise 4 years ago and before I read anything about the DSC I knew there would be tipping. The ship is entirely a service industry and just like hotels, resorts and just about everywhere you travel now tipping is expected(at least in the US) so when I read further I was please about the DSC it made sense to me.

 

Norms for service industries vary greatly by country.  Service is included in restaurant and hotels in most of continental Europe so the 15-20% for basic service that is de rigeur at American restaurants is an unfamiliar concept to Germans.  Tipping used to be considered positively offensive in Japan, as though the service provider needed to be bribed to do their very best.  Even in the US, it's not clear to me when it's appropriate to leave (or not leave) a few dollars for the chambermaids at hotels.

 

Cruise ships set their own norms.  I very much sympathize with people who are caught out the first time.  Not so much afterwards.

Edited April 3, 2019 by havenfan

[newmexicoNita]

17 hours ago, erdoran said:

THANK YOU @Peachypooh I had exactly the same thing happen to me to the tune of $300 in the late 1980's.  No warning, no mention, nothing until the little envelopes showed up.  I was young, naive, hadn't travelled at all ever other than flights to visit family and it didn't occur to me that there would be required (because they were required, the same way a restaurant tip is required) tips.  

 

I think the DSC is MUCH MUCH less of an issue when pax are told about it at booking time BEFORE finalizing the booking.  I don't think it's right when a new cruiser posts how they were surprised by DSC and there's the inevitable barrage of posts how they "should have known about it" - you tip at restaurants, you should read the FAQ's, you should know this is a service industry, etc, etc.  NO - the TA or NCL SHOULD HAVE DISCLOSED IT.  Period.  Being sneaky about it gives a negative perception from the beginning and probably causes a lot of the problems we hear about.  Positioning it as "here it is, it's as much a part of cruising as the 20% tip at a restaurant is, consider it part of the total cost" BEFORE finalizing the booking would, IMHO, eliminate the majority of the problems.

 

I also doubt very much the TA assumes pax know about the DSC.  I think many avoid mentioning it because they want the booking and they want the fare to appear as low as possible to get the customer to sign, the same way the cruiselines advertise the price BEFORE taxes, fees, and autograts - and don't even show the DSC anywhere during the booking process.  I think it is absolutely intentional, figuring once the person has booked, they'll just pay it sooner or later - and if they don't, no problem, it will be added to their onboard account anyway.  The TA isn't required to collect it or make payment arrangements so they avoid having to deal with it.

wow, $300.00 for tips What kind of a ship were you on and how many days? I don't remember if we knew about tips or not in the 80s, but even if we didn't our tips were nothing like that. The only people who got tipped were the cabin steward and assistant steward and our wait person. I don't remember anyone else. I do like the system being used now much better.

As for not knowing 30 years ago or more compared to now: we have to remember, back then we didn't have the internet to depend on. Some of us had them but we would never have used them for research and quite possibly the info wasn't even available. I think we got our first computer in the late 80s. 

[havenfan]

2 hours ago, newmexicoNita said:

wow, $300.00 for tips What kind of a ship were you on and how many days? I don't remember if we knew about tips or not in the 80s, but even if we didn't our tips were nothing like that. The only people who got tipped were the cabin steward and assistant steward and our wait person. I don't remember anyone else.

 

On my first cruise, on Costa about 20 years ago, they used some pretense to call passengers into meetings on the second-to-last day where they handed out envelopes and one of the front desk staff addressed us explaining that the crew relied on tips for most of their compensation.

 

In addition to the positions you named above, I remember receiving envelopes for the assistant waiter and the maitre d'.  The "recommended amounts" were something like $2 ppd for the cabin steward, $1.50 for his assistant, $2.50 for the waiter, $2 for his assistant, and $0.75 for the maitre d'.  So something like $8.75 ppd.

I definitely remember scrambling for $200 in cash (for the two of us) at the end of an 11-day cruise.

Edited April 3, 2019 by havenfan

[tomk3212]

People neglect to read the "fine print" in MANY situations and are shocked and appalled when reality comes crashing in.

 

Example: on our honeymoon to Barbados back in the mid 70's we got hit with an "Exit Tax" of $15/per person at the airport; this had to be paid on the spot OR we wouldn't be allowed to board our flight home!!  Oh, and NO credit cards or checks accepted!  TG we had extra wedding cash (you are absolutely correct PTC DAWG!!!) but there was another young couple in line with us who DIDN'T have any extra cash to pay this.  Dunno what happened to them but for us, lesson learned!

 

On the flight home we continued complaining to each other about this which prompted DW to get out the travel docs our TA gave us.  Sure enough, down at the bottom, in the aforesaid "fine print" under "Fees" was the statement, "Price does NOT include any entry or exit fees/taxes imposed by the Barbados Government."  I then pulled out our Fodor's Guide to the Caribbean that we had practically memorized re: Barbados & found a statement at the end under "General Tips" to be aware that "some Caribbean countries may charge entry & exit taxes that aren't included in your airfare or travel fees."

 

So the bottom line" that we've learned from this & other travel miscues over the years is  do your research, don't be afraid to ask questions (like here on CC!!!!) and read the fine print!

[newmexicoNita]

8 minutes ago, havenfan said:

 

In addition to the positions you named, I remember receiving envelopes for the assistant waiter and the maitre d'.  The "recommended amounts" on Costa almost 20 years ago were something like $2 ppd for the cabin steward, $1.50 for his assistant, $2.50 for the waiter, $2 for his assistant, and $0.75 for the maitre d'.  So something like $8.75 ppd.

I don't remember the maitre d or the assistant waiter, but you could be right I was on Costa only once and it was probably more than 30 years ago. Probably they added some later on. I do know they auto tipping started about 10 or 15 years ago. Time flies when you are having fun huh? 

[Love my butler]

I have no issue with the Discretionary Service Charge.  I adjust it, up or down, at my discretion.  Most passengers are not aware it can be adjusted, and NCL is most happy about that.

[erdoran]

12 hours ago, newmexicoNita said:

wow, $300.00 for tips What kind of a ship were you on and how many days? I don't remember if we knew about tips or not in the 80s, but even if we didn't our tips were nothing like that. The only people who got tipped were the cabin steward and assistant steward and our wait person. I don't remember anyone else. I do like the system being used now much better.

As for not knowing 30 years ago or more compared to now: we have to remember, back then we didn't have the internet to depend on. Some of us had them but we would never have used them for research and quite possibly the info wasn't even available. I think we got our first computer in the late 80s. 

Nita, it was Premier Cruise Lines “the big red boat” aka the first Disney cruise.  There were 4 of us - me and hubby and two little kids.  It was 3 days cruise/4 nights disney.  There was quite the array of envelopes, I don’t even remember how many, with a recommended amount per person per day and I assumed it included the children and tipped accordingly.  I was really naive though, because I think I based the tip on 7 days rather than the 3 at sea but it’s so long ago I could be wrong.  It WAS quite substantial though, and I tipped exactly the recommended amount.

 

My other really terrible tipping experience was Carnival.  Here I HAD read the fine print, the website, the FAQs, and was quite aware of the DSC.  They even said who got how much and were very clear that it covered EVERYONE (perhaps not childcare, I don’t remember, but we weren’t using it).  So, the last day ALL DAY the entertainment director kept saying on the PA “tip the maitre d’” - building it up, saying all that he does and how we should show our appreciation. How much?  How about a range?  Nope, just “whatever you think is appropriate to show your appreciation”.  Geez!!!  No cc to research to get a reasonable range, no clue what’s right.  Would $10 be offensive?  $100 ridiculous?  And what about the DSC that “covers everyone, no additional tips required”.

 

Sorry, that one still rankles.  No wonder I’m anti-tips, anti-DSC - I do pay it, but I keep saying I wish it was all just included in the fare.  Sure, increase the fare,  if I am paying the same amount just make it easier on everyone and stop playing games.

[newmexicoNita]

11 hours ago, erdoran said:

Nita, it was Premier Cruise Lines “the big red boat” aka the first Disney cruise.  There were 4 of us - me and hubby and two little kids.  It was 3 days cruise/4 nights disney.  There was quite the array of envelopes, I don’t even remember how many, with a recommended amount per person per day and I assumed it included the children and tipped accordingly.  I was really naive though, because I think I based the tip on 7 days rather than the 3 at sea but it’s so long ago I could be wrong.  It WAS quite substantial though, and I tipped exactly the recommended amount.

 

My other really terrible tipping experience was Carnival.  Here I HAD read the fine print, the website, the FAQs, and was quite aware of the DSC.  They even said who got how much and were very clear that it covered EVERYONE (perhaps not childcare, I don’t remember, but we weren’t using it).  So, the last day ALL DAY the entertainment director kept saying on the PA “tip the maitre d’” - building it up, saying all that he does and how we should show our appreciation. How much?  How about a range?  Nope, just “whatever you think is appropriate to show your appreciation”.  Geez!!!  No cc to research to get a reasonable range, no clue what’s right.  Would $10 be offensive?  $100 ridiculous?  And what about the DSC that “covers everyone, no additional tips required”.

 

Sorry, that one still rankles.  No wonder I’m anti-tips, anti-DSC - I do pay it, but I keep saying I wish it was all just included in the fare.  Sure, increase the fare,  if I am paying the same amount just make it easier on everyone and stop playing games.

When I was still a TA I had a complementary 7 day sailing on the Big Red Boat, yes, Premier. You might know, the week prior to sailing is when they went belly up. At least I didn't have any refund coming. That was a nightmare for months. 

 

As for anyone to announce over a loud speaker about tips and who should get them: I find this very offensive. As for tips being part of the overall price, a lot of people feel this way, but if that were the case we wouldn't have a option to do any adjusting. I do not adjust, I do sometimes tip bar tenders and almost always the cabin steward, but this is still my option.   

[CPT Trips]

On April 2, 2019 at 11:24 PM, erdoran said:

 

It would be so simple and FAIR if, before finalizing the booking, you were asked “do you want to pay DSC now, with final payment, or from your on board account?”

 

 

And include the amount of the DSC . . .

[pbenjamin]

This all seems sort of silly to me.  I've only been on three cruises (fourth one coming up soon) but in each case I did my homework and knew what to expect.  The only thing remotely surprising was on our Fathom cruise to Cuba when I found out -- on Cruise Critic a few weeks before the cruise -- that envelopes were no longer a thing and that gratuities were prepaid as part of the cruise cost.

Edited April 4, 2019 by pbenjamin

[erdoran]

7 hours ago, pbenjamin said:

This all seems sort of silly to me.  I've only been on three cruises (fourth one coming up soon) but in each case I did my homework and knew what to expect.  The only thing remotely surprising was on our Fathom cruise to Cuba when I found out -- on Cruise Critic a few weeks before the cruise -- that envelopes were no longer a thing and that gratuities were prepaid as part of the cruise cost.

Why is it silly?  Not everyone is computer-savvy.  Some people, for whatever reason, read the brochure and talk to the TA, get a quote and silly them, believe that the price they are given IS the price they pay.  They don’t expect marginal dishonesty and surprise charges, they figure their TA is honest and the price on the contract is the final price.

 

You yourself just said that the only way YOU found out about DSC was CC.  Should every single cruiser who books a cruise have to come here to find out the “real” price?  Isn’t it the TA’s or cruise line’s responsibility to inform them?

[bonvoyagie]

I have not seen a real printed brochure in years- however when I started cruising back in 2002 there were real printed brochures - I wish I had saved them - The DSC was actually touted as part of Freestyle - no more envelopes - along with no more fixed dining times at the same table with the same wait staff.

 

Perhaps since it has been in existence at NCL for at least 17 yrs (if not longer) and has also spread to other lines, people just assume one knows all about it.

[AL3XCruise]

 

On 4/2/2019 at 11:00 AM, Peachypooh said:

So I understand...

 

On 4/2/2019 at 11:45 AM, don't-use-real-name said:

Yes it is ever so difficult to understand the rules protocol of what is all inclusive and what is left outside

like a hanging dangling particle as extra such as tips.

 

I understand as well.  Of course, I see two types of posts on CC.  The first is people who post about their DSC/tip confusion to try and help others.  I respect these people because 1) they accept responsibility and 2) they try to turn their problem into a positive by helping future cruisers avoid the confusion and frustration they faced

 

The second is people who post to complain.  These people effectively abdicate their responsibility to understand what they are buying, then refuse to admit that fact when they ultimately discover the truth.  They insist that the marketing is duplicitous, even illegal.

 

In a perfect world, I would like to see the DSC included or, at least, listed as an item like port taxes when you book.  But anytime I'm spending the kind of money a cruise costs I make sure to read the fine print and do some additional research.  There are a lot of industries that get creative in terms of what the advertised vs out the door price is.  I once looked at a car that was advertised at a price that already included five different rebates on it.  Some were mutually exclusive (new customer rebate and loyalty rebate, for instance).  A little asterisk led to the "not all rebates may apply."  It is annoying, but it is reality, and people need to keep their eyes open!

 

I'm a bit more sympathetic when folks work through TAs.  I think every TA should make it clear what the DSC is and how it works; after all, they are supposed to be working for you.  Of course, accusing a cruise line of nefarious practices when your TA knew but didn't disclose them doesn't make sense.