Do you Like the direction..

[Roz]

17 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

If there is a limit on the number of ships, likely that the companies will switch to bigger ships. The operators of mega-ships can't lose!

 

Until there's a downturn in the economy and they can't fill the berths.

[sofietucker]

3 hours ago, Caribbean Chris said:

 

Upon reading this post, I had a flashback to my days 30 years ago managing an American Express travel agency in Chevy Chase, MD. A woman returned very disappointed from a vacation at a lovely resort on St. Maarten. Her reason? All the people on the beach were fat.

Heh. Remember back when one could cite the European beaches as being more inclusive?  Everyone went, regardless of body state!  One might see folks who were old, flabby, wrinkly, fat (tho not so much, overseas back in tha day), handicapped, and all the men in speedos? Women with their tops off (including saggy ones)--at regular, not nudist, beaches... But here not pretty=illegal, so as not to offend the eye.

 

Once--in the 90s, when I suppose this lookism began--I went to the beach with my lovely friend who has only one leg (cancer amputation, at hip). We watched a couple of larger gals (say, 170 lbs but fit and tanned) wade into the water. Shocked, she said, "OMG! I WOULD NEVER COME TO THE BEACH IF I LOOKED LIKE THAT!" I was taken aback; all I could do to not say, "Some people would say the same about amputees..." 

 

I say, screw all that. I'm a boomer and shall continue to enjoy my life. Folks can avert their eyes from my cellulite when I snorkel (which we do every time there's warm water--Greece, Turkey, etc.). We have seen Muslim women in Toulon swimming in hijabs and the eqivalent of wetsuits, risking arrest... (There was great outcry against the no-hijab law temporarily in place when we cruised there, shortly after the Nice boardwalk event).

 

Everyone ought to be afforded the opportunity to enjoy the world's gifts. Besides, there's an old saying: Pretty is as pretty does. Your client clearly was ugly in her heart.

Edited October 13, 2019 by sofietucker

[sofietucker]

We've always preferred the smaller ships--Prinsendam being our favorite... Now I suppose it's the Maasdam until she & her sisters are all retired. If there's a compelling reason--usually itinerary combined with future cruise credits or special deals--we'll bump up to a larger ship, but we like being able to dock in smaller ports, with therefore less common itineraries. 

 

The ship's design is a big factor too. For our first-and-only Carnival cruise, we tried the redesigned (post fire or whatvever disaster experienced) Sunshine. It was pretty darn hard to find a view of the ocean! 

 

Plus we LIKE cruising on HAL's old-people ships! People are much more interesting; traditional dining still functions with large tables of "strangers," as opposed to mostly families who refuse to engage in conversation ("stranger danger"? Gimme a break). Once on the Brilliance, on the first night at an 8-top--when only one other couple showed up (50% discount for first night specialty dining, doncha know), they tried to bring a family over to sit with us; the man shouted, "But we don't KNOW those people!"  Yeah, we don't want you here either, buddy. (That was a great table: all English speaking but from Bermuda, Ireland, Sheffield...) We meet losts of Australians and Canadians of our own age.

 

And there are more open slots on certain tours that require exertion...And there are now more late-night activities with the advent of BB King's--and we know all the tunes, lol. What's not to love?

Edited October 13, 2019 by sofietucker

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

If there is a limit on the number of ships, likely that the companies will switch to bigger ships. The operators of mega-ships can't lose!

Really?  They will lose when they place a limit on the number of passengers.

[3rdGenCunarder]

22 minutes ago, sofietucker said:

 

Plus we LIKE cruising on HAL's old-people ships! People are much more interesting; traditional dining still functions with large tables of "strangers," as opposed to mostly families who refuse to engage in conversation ("stranger danger"? Gimme a break). Once on the Brilliance, on the first night at an 8-top--when only one other couple showed up (50% discount for first night specialty dining, doncha know), they tried to bring a family over to sit with us; the man shouted, "But we don't KNOW those people!"  Yeah, we don't want you here either, buddy. (That was a great table: all English speaking but from Bermuda, Ireland, Sheffield...) We meet losts of Australians and Canadians of our own age.

 

 

I agree with you! So what if we won't become best friends and so what if we won't see these people after the cruise is over. We have enjoyed many meals with entertaining conversation, and don't find it a chore to talk to other passengers. Cunard is social this way, too.  We have had assigned tables where everyone had a lot in common and tables where the couples were all very different. Either way, there's always something interesting to learn about people, if you're open to it.

 

The last time we were on NCL, 'freestyle" was just beginning. We were seated with another couple one night and they absolutely refused to say anything. Didn't even acknowledge our "good evening." Didn't talk to each other, either, now that I think about it. Very uncomfortable meal. 

 

[Aquahound]

24 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I agree with you! So what if we won't become best friends and so what if we won't see these people after the cruise is over. We have enjoyed many meals with entertaining conversation, and don't find it a chore to talk to other passengers. Cunard is social this way, too.  We have had assigned tables where everyone had a lot in common and tables where the couples were all very different. Either way, there's always something interesting to learn about people, if you're open to it.

 

The last time we were on NCL, 'freestyle" was just beginning. We were seated with another couple one night and they absolutely refused to say anything. Didn't even acknowledge our "good evening." Didn't talk to each other, either, now that I think about it. Very uncomfortable meal. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, sofietucker said:

Plus we LIKE cruising on HAL's old-people ships! People are much more interesting; traditional dining still functions with large tables of "strangers," as opposed to mostly families who refuse to engage in conversation ("stranger danger"? Gimme a break). Once on the Brilliance, on the first night at an 8-top--when only one other couple showed up (50% discount for first night specialty dining, doncha know), they tried to bring a family over to sit with us; the man shouted, "But we don't KNOW those people!"  Yeah, we don't want you here either, buddy. (That was a great table: all English speaking but from Bermuda, Ireland, Sheffield...) We meet losts of Australians and Canadians of our own age.

 

 

Notwithstanding NCL's 100% Freestyle concept, I don't think those experiences...both good and bad...are exclusive to any line.  I can give examples of great table mates on RCI and horrible table mates on HAL....and vice versa.  Those experiences are more of an indictment on the individuals than they are the cruise line.    

[sofietucker]

14 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

 

Notwithstanding NCL's 100% Freestyle concept, I don't think those experiences...both good and bad...are exclusive to any line.  I can give examples of great table mates on RCI and horrible table mates on HAL....and vice versa.  Those experiences are more of an indictment on the individuals than they are the cruise line.    

What I meant was that HAL has a reputation--borne out by many of our experiences as 4-star Mariners, as well as by many reviews, including CC's offical one--as being geared toward older cruisers. There is often a dearth of activities for children and teens; the P'dam didn't have a club for kids at all. And we have often found that older passengers, simply by having accrued more life experiences, tend to be more "interesting" to us. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, sofietucker said:

What I meant was that HAL has a reputation--borne out by many of our experiences as 4-star Mariners, as well as by many reviews, including CC's offical one--as being geared toward older cruisers. There is often a dearth of activities for children and teens; the P'dam didn't have a club for kids at all. And we have often found that older passengers, simply by having accrued more life experiences, tend to be more "interesting" to us. 

 

Exactly. Cunard is somewhat less geared toward older cruisers, especially in more recent years, but there is an onboard practice of sharing tables and conversing with others. 

 

And one bad evening didn't make me stop sailing on NCL. Sooo many more reasons, but no need to discuss that on the HAL board.

 

[kazu]

1 hour ago, sofietucker said:

There is often a dearth of activities for children and teens; the P'dam didn't have a club for kids at all.

 

Club HAL and the teen club are some of the best kept secrets on HAL, it seems but on the sailings I have been on, I haven’t seen that.

 

I’ve known several parents who sailed with their children and they LOVED it there.  They literally had to be dragged out.

 

My DS sailed with her children on several cruise lines that were noted for children’s entertainment and they preferred HAL.  They were on the Eurodam IIRC.

 

While P’dam didn’t have an “official” children’s club, (too small to have a full Club HAL) they did have 2 trained counsellors who took over that duty when there were children on board.  I witnessed 2 little ones being cared for.  The counsellors were doing all kinds of great things with them - taking them out and about all over the ship.  Those two little ones were so well behaved they and their parents were invited to every VIP function and the captain encouraged them to try the chocolate fountain 😉 😄 

 

Those 2 had a blast on their sailing and were fussed over by guests and crew alike.

 

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, sofietucker said:

We've always preferred the smaller ships--Prinsendam being our favorite... Now I suppose it's the Maasdam until she & her sisters are all retired. If there's a compelling reason--usually itinerary combined with future cruise credits or special deals--we'll bump up to a larger ship, but we like being able to dock in smaller ports, with therefore less common itineraries. 

 

 

 

I also don't like big ships and the crowds. But, change is inevitable because of economics and technology change. Gotta adapt and overcome.

 

If it becomes a choice of no-cruise and ship-in-a-ship, I'll take the lesser evil.

 

[Dunelm]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 10:02 PM, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Don't worry. I know who is credible, and who isn't.

I am assuming, then, that you have taken graduate statistics and quantitative research methods.  Impressive.

[rkacruiser]

19 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Your father was definitely wise, as was mine and that's the kind of thing my father would say. It's a good way of looking at making choices. 

 

To honor my Mother and my maternal Grandfather with this post, they taught me how to make good decisions regardless of whether those decisions were financial or not.  My Grandfather taught me to "not put all of my eggs in one basket".  I haven't; he was a wise man.

[HappyInVan]

5 hours ago, Dunelm said:

I am assuming, then, that you have taken graduate statistics and quantitative research methods.  Impressive.

 

Sorry. I see no evidence that anyone here has mastered undergrad stats or portfolio theory?

[HappyInVan]

On 10/13/2019 at 5:41 AM, Caribbean Chris said:

 

Upon reading this post, I had a flashback to my days 30 years ago managing an American Express travel agency in Chevy Chase, MD. A woman returned very disappointed from a vacation at a lovely resort on St. Maarten. Her reason? All the people on the beach were fat.

 

I'm from Vancouver, BC. So, I was shocked by the obesity too. But, the important point lies in the last sentence

 

“The passengers seemed different from 2010/11”

 

That's relevant to the topic of this thread, “Do you like the direction Orlando Ashford seems to be leading Holland America Line?”

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

 

 

 

[true45]

On 9/12/2019 at 1:51 PM, cruisemom42 said:

To be truthful, I don't like the direction of most cruise lines. Why single out HAL?

 

-- I don't like larger ships.

-- I don't like cruise lines that create an obvious "class system" onboard.

-- I don't like the trend toward "unbundling" of costs.

 

None of these are unique to HAL.

 

Entertainment is very subjective so I'll leave it to the side for the moment (although I am not terribly fond of endlessly recycled production shows or canned music or shows that largely depend on passenger participation).

 

I do think some lines are trying new things in an effort to see what works. I may not like every single new idea, but I am often willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and withhold judgement until I experience them.

I’m with you.  Taking our first HAL sailing after 25+ on other lines but mostly Celebrity.  The cruisers are saying the same things on the board there.

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I'm from Vancouver, BC. So, I was shocked by the obesity too. But, the important point lies in the last sentence

 

“The passengers seemed different from 2010/11”

 

That's relevant to the topic of this thread, “Do you like the direction Orlando Ashford seems to be leading Holland America Line?”

 

 

 

Very basic statistical trap. 

 

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[HappyInVan]

2 hours ago, true45 said:

I’m with you.  Taking our first HAL sailing after 25+ on other lines but mostly Celebrity.  The cruisers are saying the same things on the board there.

 

Is it that bad over there?

 

Why don't you try a similar poll at Celebrity? Would the cruisers be 66% negative?

 

Some of us are worried about the long term viability of HAL and Carnival. Read post 401, 405. 415 and 420. This would impact the enjoyment of passengers willing to pay $$$, and the value of being a senior member of the Mariner rewards program.

[rucrazy]

44 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Why don't you try a similar poll at Celebrity? Would the cruisers be 66% negative?

 

That would be an interesting thread... I won't post it but I hope someone does.. would love to compare results!

 

Joseph

[creel5857]

We have never run a cruise line so I am not an expert..........but after 8 cruises I would say things are going down hill a bit with regards to services and entertainment.  You can have all the new bells and whistles you want to keep modern or contemporary to meet society demands but if you dont have that solid service and professional entertainment then you have lost the whole reason we like holland.......

[Dunelm]

19 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Sorry. I see no evidence that anyone here has mastered undergrad stats or portfolio theory?

Actually, I was writing about graduate level studies taken by me.  Even the question "Do you like the direction . . ." is flawed.  "like" and "direction" can be interpreted very differently.  Hence, my continued skepticism.

[rucrazy]

1 minute ago, Dunelm said:

Actually, I was writing about graduate level studies taken by me.  Even the question "Do you like the direction . . ." is flawed.  "like" and "direction" can be interpreted very differently.  Hence, my continued skepticism.

then if I may ask, how would you phrase the question?

[Dunelm]

8 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

then if I may ask, how would you phrase the question?

 

8 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

then if I may ask, how would you phrase the question?

It would have to be composed of several neutral questions, not only one, and would certainly not lay any implied change on one person.  Major changes are never the result of one person in a company.  As you can certainly tell, I am not a fan of polls and would not want any part in them.  Also, people polled should always be a random sample.  An impossibility on this site.

[rucrazy]

1 minute ago, Dunelm said:

 

It would have to be composed of several neutral questions, not only one, and would certainly not lay any implied change on one person.  Major changes are never the result of one person in a company.  As you can certainly tell, I am not a fan of polls and would not want any part in them.  Also, people polled should always be a random sample.  An impossibility on this site.

I agree with your analysis, the question was not meant to be scientific, it was more for me.

Joseph

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, Dunelm said:

 

Also, people polled should always be a random sample.  An impossibility on this site.

 

Of course, a sample of 200 is not representative of a universe of 00s of thousands.

 

However, I would suggest that the 200 are more important than the average/typical HAL customer.

 

That is, the 200 voters are not random. They are here on CC. Have more than the average number of cruises. Above all, they are vocal influencers.

 

https://influencermarketinghub.com/what-is-an-influencer/

 

They have strong opinions and express them. With their extensive experience, they are able to influence others. In this instance, being critical of the company, 'Do you like the direction Orlando Ashford seems to be leading Holland America Line?'.

 

One of our members was saying that he wrote a complaint directly to the BoD, and the response was action. That is indirect power.

 

Hope this helps.

[HappyInVan]

Any undergraduate knows know to calculate the margin of error from a table. But, a real world poll requires knowledge of the reliability of the method; phone, internet, mail.

 

There are random household surveys of consumer optimism. But, there are also smaller polls of economists, CEO and CFO about their expectations for the economy.

 

These knowledgeable people have intimate knowledge of the spending and production plans for their industries.

 

Do the pollsters include every CEO, CFO and economists in the country? Of course not. They have a selected corporate/academic list that they use every survey. Ensuring consistency.

 

This thread has been viewed 16k times. Only 220 respondents have participated. I would suggest that these people are more certain of their preferences and will spend more on cruises than the 'average' consumer.

 

Equally important are the comments in this thread. No need for a fifty-question poll. We should be able to identify the qualitative issues from just reading. Any unbiased person should be able to draw their own conclusions.