Housekeeping: unreasonable/unrealistic expectation?

[Petronillus]

I'm hoping that the CC community will give me reassurance, that in this one respect at least, my expectation is excessive -- and that it's not another indication that HAL is going to h___ in a handbasket.

 

DW & I just got back a week ago from a 14-day Rotterdam cruise of the Baltic Sea. We had a lot of rain and a few rough seas; on one sea day the ship was seriously listing to starboard because of 60-knot winds, and the ship had to change course to hug the coast of Sweden on the western side of Goteland.

 

My concern is the dirty windows. Whether in the Crow's Nest or the Lido or the Explorations Cafe, the window glass was not just rain-streaked but visibly dirty -- and this for the entire 14-day duration! DW reads it as HAL cutting corners on maintenance. It put us on the lookout for other evidence that the ship was not meeting the HAL standard of spick-and-span that we've grown accustomed to, and we found such evidence in scuffs on the inside of the elevator doors and occasional patches of where the carpeting looked threadbare. And the Rotterdam is billed as the flagship of the HAL fleet!

 

So, I put it to you: is there cause for concern? or are we wasting good time picking nits?

[Mary229]

The windows should have been cleaned at the beginning of the cruise but it is not practical to clean the front windows along the way, in my opinion.    If that was the worst thing on your cruise count yourself blessed.  I have sailed on the Rotterdam and I would not call it the flagship.  

[iceman93]

Whether or not any of us would call the Rotterdam the flagship, the fact is that HAL calls it that (along with the Amsterdam), which should imply that it is held to the highest standards in the fleet.

 

And I, too, have noticed dirty windows on my most recent HAL cruise.  In the past, I remember deck staff cleaning exterior windows at every port stop--last time I didn't see any evidence of that.

[VMax1700]

Within a few hours of cleaning the windows will be 'crusty' again from the salt water.  Even more so in rough seas and strong winds.

 

[dockman]

All the more reason that I enjoy the promenade deck where u can look out to the sea without having to look through often dirty glass or plexiglass.  That was a big problem on the giant Royal Princess with very little portion of a prom deck but lots of upper deck encircled with plexiglass....tried to watch a sunset but glass was so dirty could barely see it....and plexiglass was very difficult if not impossible for the crew to keep clean.

[zelker]

1 hour ago, Petronillus said:

I'm hoping that the CC community will give me reassurance, that in this one respect at least, my expectation is excessive -- and that it's not another indication that HAL is going to h___ in a handbasket.

 

My concern is the dirty windows. Whether in the Crow's Nest or the Lido or the Explorations Cafe, the window glass was not just rain-streaked but visibly dirty -- and this for the entire 14-day duration! DW reads it as HAL cutting corners on maintenance. 

 

So, I put it to you: is there cause for concern? or are we wasting good time picking nits?

 

Sorry but I just have to roll my eyes at people who find the littlest things to nit-pick about on a ship.  It's a massive vessel that spends 365 days a year on the ocean.  Is it possible to keep every pane of glass clean, or replace every window when a seal breaks and there's fog between the panes (as we saw in the MDR and Crow's Nest on Amsterdam this summer), or keep every bit of rust touched up, among other things?  Be realistic.  We are constantly amazed at how much work the crew does 24/7 on these ships.  If dirty windows offend you, suggest you stay home where you can keep your own spic and span … will help you spot those nits you want to pick.

Edited September 29, 2019 by zelker

[kazu]

Any ship will have dirty windows, especially with a lot of waves, froth and listing.

 

They can’t always get out (especially the Crow’s Nest area) depending on what the maintenance is in each port and, even if they can, it doesn’t take long for them to quickly get dirty again.

 

Sort of like when they paint your verandah railings and in a week, you can spot some rust appearing 😉 

[seachef318]

As a side note - there are quite a few ports that do not allow cleaning/maintenance  to be done on the outer areas of ships docked and it is dangerous in certain sea conditions for it to be done while at sea. 

[Petronillus]

23 minutes ago, zelker said:

 

Sorry but I just have to roll my eyes at people who find the littlest things to nit-pick about on a ship.  It's a massive vessel that spends 365 days a year on the ocean.  Is it possible to keep every pane of glass clean, or replace every window when a seal breaks and there's fog between the panes (as we saw in the MDR and Crow's Nest on Amsterdam this summer), or keep every bit of rust touched up, among other things?  Be realistic.  We are constantly amazed at how much work the crew does 24/7 on these ships.  If dirty windows offend you, suggest you stay home where you can keep your own spic and span … will help you spot those nits you want to pick.

 

Sorry, but that's grossly unfair, and I'm offended. I wouldn't raise the issue if it weren't chronic through the entire 14 days of our cruise. I don't know what it takes to removes streaks of dirt off the exterior glass but we had, for instance, two days in port in St. Petersburg and Copenhagen and enough breaks in the weather that some form of cleaning/dirt-removal could have been performed. But from the first day to the last we were seeing the same dirty, grimy windows.

[zelker]

2 minutes ago, Petronillus said:

 

Sorry, but that's grossly unfair, and I'm offended. I wouldn't raise the issue if it weren't chronic through the entire 14 days of our cruise. I don't know what it takes to removes streaks of dirt off the exterior glass but we had, for instance, two days in port in St. Petersburg and Copenhagen and enough breaks in the weather that some form of cleaning/dirt-removal could have been performed. But from the first day to the last we were seeing the same dirty, grimy windows.

 

Grossly unfair sounds a little dramatic.  I didn't mean to offend - and you are certainly not the only person to nit pick about things on a ship - but you asked and I gave you my opinion.  

[AncientWanderer]

I expect window-cleaning to be ongoing throughout a cruise.  Usually they are out there at every port opportunity.  If they're not, they are cutting corners, IMHO.

[Tampa Girl]

14 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

I expect window-cleaning to be ongoing throughout a cruise.  Usually they are out there at every port opportunity.  If they're not, they are cutting corners, IMHO.

 

But there is not necessarily an opportunity at every port.  OP may have  a legitimate gripe re his cruise because the seas were rough.  We had our windows cleaned very frequently during our 89-day Grand Asia cruise, but certainly not at every port.  

[AncientWanderer]

Just now, Tampa Girl said:

 

But there is not necessarily an opportunity at every port.  OP may have  a legitimate gripe re his cruise because the seas were rough.  We had our windows cleaned very frequently during our 89-day Grand Asia cruise, but certainly not at every port.  

 

Oh, I know there are many variables here, Tampa Girl.  I mean, our windows certainly get crusty on a TA.  But usually there is great effort to have them clean at least on embarkation.

I'm just giving the OP benefit of the doubt that more effort could have been made -- especially given how there are fewer crew members out and about in just about all departments these days.

[Copper10-8]

The staff captain, through the Bosun (who heads the sailors) is in charge of ship maintenance. There is a regular program to wash and clean exterior windows. Obviously, this can not be accomplished at sea with the ship moving at speed, so that leaves port calls where the staff captain, via the local port agent, frequently rents one or two cherry pickers (Ft. Lauderdale/Port Everglades is one of the ports where this is done every turnaround day) for this purpose. . Sailors use extension poles to wash exterior windows (usually up to three decks' worth) while standing on the dock. All ships are equipped with a motorized "window washing cradle" for the higher areas like the Lido Market, while other parts of the ships have a cat walk (the bridge is one) where a sailor will secure himself with a carabinier and D-ring to a safety harness in order to clean the windows. 

 

Some ports however, Alaskan and several foreign ports come to mind, will not allow exterior window washing due to environmental concerns so this causes the staff captain to wait for a port call that does allow it. In the mean time, as has been stated, the ship, when at sea, is subject to a constant salt build up. Rough seas do not help here

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ski ww]

I'm sure the deck department has a list of priorities of  what gets cleaned when.

[AncientWanderer]

6 minutes ago, ski ww said:

I'm sure the deck department has a list of priorities of  what gets cleaned when.

 

Yeah.  Honestly, this is once again a cost/benefit analysis.  If the cruise was a great bargain, I'm probably not seeing the dirty windows.   But if it's a high-end cruise, I'd notice things like the windows.  I think that's true more or less for all of us.

[Petronillus]

7 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

The staff captain, through the Bosun (who heads the sailors) is in charge of ship maintenance. There is a regular program to wash and clean exterior windows. Obviously, this can not be accomplished at sea with the ship moving at speed, so that leaves port calls where the staff captain, via the local port agent, frequently rents one or two cherry pickers (Ft. Lauderdale/Port Everglades is one of the ports where this is done every turnaround day) for this purpose. . Sailors use extension poles to wash exterior windows (usually up to three decks' worth) while standing on the dock. All ships are equipped with a motorized "window washing cradle" for the higher areas like the Lido Market, while other parts of the ships have a cat walk (the bridge is one) where a sailor will secure himself with a carabinier and D-ring to a safety harness in order to clean the windows. 

 

Some ports however, Alaskan and several foreign ports come to mind, will not allow exterior window washing due to environmental concerns so this causes the staff captain to wait for a port call that does allow it. In the mean time, as has been stated, the ship, when at sea, is subject to a constant salt build up. Rough seas do not help here

 

 

Thank you, Copper, for the very helpful and illuminating explanation. 

 

I have to believe that HAL is conscious of the negative impression dirt-streaked windows create. If they could have cleaned the glass in port, I'm sure they would have. It's kind of like Mayor Guiliani's campaign to get the broken windows in NYC repaired/replaced: the clean-up had a positive effect on the incidence of crime. I remember sitting in the Lido with DW at breakfast the first morning of the cruise and remarking on how dirty the window glass was. And when it got no better over the next 14 days, it left us wondering.

[sevenseasnomad]

Did you ever address this concern to the Front Desk, so someone would know you were displeased?  When you completed your survey, did you discuss this concern?  

[Homosassa]

3 hours ago, Petronillus said:

 

DW & I just got back a week ago from a 14-day Rotterdam cruise of the Baltic Sea. We had a lot of rain and a few rough seas; on one sea day the ship was seriously listing to starboard because of 60-knot winds, and the ship had to change course to hug the coast of Sweden on the western side of Goteland.

 

My concern is the dirty windows. Whether in the Crow's Nest or the Lido or the Explorations Cafe, the window glass was not just rain-streaked but visibly dirty -- and this for the entire 14-day duration! DW reads it as HAL cutting corners on maintenance. It put us on the lookout for other evidence that the ship was not meeting the HAL standard of spick-and-span that we've grown accustomed to, and we found such evidence in scuffs on the inside of the elevator doors and occasional patches of where the carpeting looked threadbare. And the Rotterdam is billed as the flagship of the HAL fleet!

 

 

I think the first of your paragraphs that I quoted here should have given you your answer about why the windows were dirty.

 

As far as scuffs on the elevator doors, it happens. It just depends on how long the scuffs remained ,

 

[Krazy Kruizers]

Sure I would like our windows and verandah windows kept cleaned.  But I know that with weather conditions and port rules it can't always happen.

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, Petronillus said:

 

........................... It's kind of like Mayor Guiliani's campaign to get the broken windows in NYC repaired/replaced: the clean-up had a positive effect on the incidence of crime......................

 

Yes, the criminological "broken window" theory from the early eighties! I remember being taught that as a young copper 

[Hlitner]

Different cruise lines have different standards.  Last year when we cruised on the MSC Divina (Yacht Club) we spent a lot of time (every day) in the "Top Sail" Lounge which is a private huge lounge reserved for those in the Yacht Club.  This particular lounge has a bow view with huge windows that afford more then a 180 degree view.  We were surprised to see that the windows in this lounge were cleaned every day (the same two crew members were out there with hoses and cleaning equipment every morning) except if it was raining hard.  In fact one day they were actually cleaning those windows in a light misty rain.  It was the same with our cabin balcony doors which were cleaned (by our stewardess) on a daily basis.   I do not recall any other ship in over forty years of cruising that had that kind of cleaning schedule...and it was impressive.   Although MSC is just a low to mid level mass market line it was obvious that cleaning and ongoing maintenance was a major priority.  

Hank

[ChinaShrek]

9 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Different cruise lines have different standards.  Last year when we cruised on the MSC Divina (Yacht Club) we spent a lot of time (every day) in the "Top Sail" Lounge which is a private huge lounge reserved for those in the Yacht Club.  This particular lounge has a bow view with huge windows that afford more then a 180 degree view.  We were surprised to see that the windows in this lounge were cleaned every day (the same two crew members were out there with hoses and cleaning equipment every morning) except if it was raining hard.  In fact one day they were actually cleaning those windows in a light misty rain.  It was the same with our cabin balcony doors which were cleaned (by our stewardess) on a daily basis.   I do not recall any other ship in over forty years of cruising that had that kind of cleaning schedule...and it was impressive.   Although MSC is just a low to mid level mass market line it was obvious that cleaning and ongoing maintenance was a major priority.  

Hank

 

You're really pushing MSC in these HAL threads, aren't you?

[Lovely other]

Is there a possibility that given the weather the OP was describing that other maintenance issues came to the fore that possibly were of more importance than the windows? It’s not unheard of for maintenance crews to be pulled off their regular jobs to assist in more pressing matters surely ... 

 

I live by the sea in a house that is regularly battered by storms from the Atlantic, I’m lucky if the windows stay clean for a day after the window cleaner has been 🙄 

[Hlitner]

16 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

You're really pushing MSC in these HAL threads, aren't you?

It does sound that way but not exactly.  To be honest we were blown away by MSC's Yacht Club on a single Caribbean cruise.  Not sure we would use that line outside of the Caribbean for several reasons.   And we would not recommend the line outside of their Yacht Club...which is a bit pricey...not to mention difficult to get a reservation since it is popular