Wear Your Best. Is this the "new formal" fleet wide

[LMaxwell]

Just now, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’m with you on this. Don’t understand how what others wear affects them?  

Does not matter if it does or does not.  They are literally saying "Why can't you just do something you dislike doing for 2 hours...?"  

[Esprit]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’m with you on this. Don’t understand how what others wear affects them?  

Totally agree. 

Home town restaurants have no dress codes. I choose to wear a jacket and my wife loves to dress up when we dine. What others choose to wear in those establishments has no bearing on us whatsoever. I guess looking smart and sharp comes naturally for some but it's too much like hard work for others!

[Cruise a holic]

On 11/19/2019 at 10:37 PM, bonsai3s said:

How many of you have actually been stopped from entering the MDR because of the clothes you are wearing?

 

I have.  Twice.  Many years ago, when I was much younger, (and had nice biceps), I loved wearing tank tops.  I was stopped from entering the main dining room for breakfast and lunch.  Learned my lesson and have avoided tank tops.  So now, when I see men being allowed to wear tank tops in the MDR..........I always ask the Maitre D' why?  I haven't been given a good or acceptable answer.  Now that I'm much older and perhaps much wiser...I don't care anymore.  Life is too short. 

I personally do not think "wife beater" shirts should be acceptable.  

Edited November 21, 2019 by Cruise a holic

[springfire]

People do wear some of the craziest outfits to the dining room these days.  Some people make you smile when you see the way they are dressed.  When I was working on Royals Nordic Prince back in the day, we would have to go find jackets and ties for some customers just so they would be allowed to enter in the dining room.   The times they have changed.  Now everything goes regarding dress and most people seem to enjoy it this way.   Wear what makes you feel good!   

[HBE4]

55 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

58 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Many people have explained their points of view.  Are you willing to accept different opinions? 

I’m with you on this. Don’t understand how what others wear affects them?  

 

Simple. It's all about atmosphere. A room full of dressed up people gives an elegant atmosphere to the overall evening. Many people look forward to that. If the majority of people are wearing t-shirts and shorts, then there goes the elegant atmosphere.  So it does affect people's enjoyment of the evening.

 

Now, whether the MDR is worthy of getting dressed up is another debate. While the rooms generally look beautiful, the service does seem more rushed these days so it's not like the elegant, romantic dinners of yesteryear,.

 

The way I see it, formal nights is just 2 out of 7 night's and I can think of many, many more things I dislike  than wearing a suit and tie.  Of course, my idea is formal is to dress like I'm going to a wedding reception. So to the Tux-and-Ballgown crowd, I'm probably under-dressed too.  And lately, on the 2nd formal night, I might do just tie or jacket but not both. 

 

[legaljen1969]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:17 PM, cb at sea said:

If you wish to dress formally, those are the nights to do it.  Nowadays, with luggage restrictions on airlines, few bring their formal-wear.  You will not be out of place if you choose to dress up.

I think luggage weight restriction is a huge reason why people are more selective about what they choose to bring to wear while cruising.   I understand it is "vacation." It doesn't bother me if people dress less formally, but I think it's a nice time to dress up and do something a little special if that is not a usual part of your lifestyle at home.   It is one of the few times I get my husband to "dress up."  He indulges me and does dress more upscale one night so that we can have a nice picture made and I get to feel like I am someone special and not just plain old ordinary me.

 

[Biker19]

17 minutes ago, springfire said:

When I was working on Royals Nordic Prince back in the day, we would have to go find jackets and ties for some customers just so they would be allowed to enter in the dining room.   The times they have changed. 

That was still happening (men having to wear jackets - staff would hand them out when one showed up without one) just five years ago on Quantum when you wanted to dine in Grande.

[legaljen1969]

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 1:51 PM, SargassoPirate said:

The staff at the entrance are scared to call anyone out for inappropriate MDR dress for fear of upsetting the person and receiving less than a 10.  The staff's careers live and die by the 10.  Thus, enforcement of most anything - feral children running wild, chair hogs, card players claiming tables in the buffet, and appropriate attire in the MDR has fallen by the wayside.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if some people started giving lower ratings to the staff for NOT enforcing these items.   Especially the unattended "feral" children (SargassoPirate's term not mine, but I have to admit it's pretty good).  There are some people who really do like the dining area to have the feel of a "nice restaurant."  They don't want to feel like "burgers and fries" in a place where people are waiting on them and serving them with actual appropriate place settings and such. 
I really don't care what people wear and I seldom notice unless they look like the picked their clothes up out of the dirty laundry pile on the floor.

I know people should be allowed to be comfortable on vacation. However, I have found that, in general, if people dress like they are going to a backyard barbecue, their behavior often meets that standard. 

Dress code or no dress code, the staff will continue to allow the ship to exist at the lowest acceptable standard.  If you want that "lowest standard" to elevate, then demand better.

 

 

[legaljen1969]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:06 AM, LMaxwell said:

 

One other thing to consider; it seems many, many people want to dine with their own parties and not be sat with strangers...less social pressure to "fit in" when people are not really using dinner as a socializing time in the past.  Hell, plenty of married couples are both eyeball deep in their phones and don't even interact with one another. 

That's definitely an interesting perspective about people not wanting to be sat at tables with others.  That used to be pretty standard and normal. It was a nice way to meet new people and learn about others.   On our honeymoon cruise on Majesty in 1995, we were sat with two other honeymooning couples and a lovely British couple celebrating their 40th anniversary.   The British couple kept us all on our toes and they were definitely the hit of the table. We all loved their stories from 40 years of marriage.   My husband and I were 25 and 32- husband in the military. I was finishing my teaching degree. The other two couples seemed quite a bit younger- probably both early 20s. One couple was from a very affluent background- their families were paying for them to take several back to back cruises while their home was being built.  The other couple was very quiet and seemed like they thought this might be the most luxurious vacation they would ever get to take.   We all got along well and had so much fun getting to know each other that week. 
I think people had much more incentive to have a nice atmosphere when they were in mixed company.

Our cruise on the Freedom in 2015 for our 20th anniversary, we were sat with a sweet couple from Jamaica. They were regular cruisers- I think Diamond + at the time and maybe well on their way to Pinnacle (this came up because they were discussing going on a President's cruise and telling us about a long cruise they had just taken.)  We were still in the early stages of Platinum. I didn't even know what  "President's Cruise" was.  They seemed a little skeptical of us at first, but we enjoyed our week dining with them.   We learned a lot from them.   It was the lady's birthday and they graciously shared a bottle of her favorite wine with us.

When my husband and I cruise alone, we don't mind being sat with someone else.  We enjoy meeting new people. 

 

[legaljen1969]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:40 AM, Esprit said:

It's a shame people stop taking pride in their appearance and guys dismiss the notion that their partners/wives would love to dress up, but have to dress down because their other halves are uncomfortable.

Yes, yes and more yes. 

[goldfish65]

Personally I love to dress up, not to the point of a tux but tie and blazer. My job is in a fine dining restaurant; enforcement puts the staff in a very hard position. If you are strict, and lets say one person arrives in nice shorts a few minutes after his group is seated, if he is turned away not only is it awkward for him, his friends who are not dressed much nicer have to wait while he goes and changes....or if he manages to breeze by the entrance, you'll have other customers who followed the "rules" upset that they weren't enforced. It is very hard to keep everyone happy and I don't believe it's really fair to give any staff a bad review over this. Especially today when people get very hostile and belligerent when confronted.

[Esprit]

1 hour ago, legaljen1969 said:

Yes, yes and more yes. 

Thank you.

I just don't understand why some guys can't show respect towards their wives/partners and dress smartly to compliment them in their best outfits looking drop dead gorgeous. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Esprit said:

Thank you.

I just don't understand why some guys can't show respect towards their wives/partners and dress smartly to compliment them in their best outfits looking drop dead gorgeous. 

It’s my lady who wishes not to dress up!!!  Now what do you have to say?  

 

In my opinion. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Milwaukee Eight

[legaljen1969]

3 hours ago, goldfish65 said:

Personally I love to dress up, not to the point of a tux but tie and blazer. My job is in a fine dining restaurant; enforcement puts the staff in a very hard position. If you are strict, and lets say one person arrives in nice shorts a few minutes after his group is seated, if he is turned away not only is it awkward for him, his friends who are not dressed much nicer have to wait while he goes and changes....or if he manages to breeze by the entrance, you'll have other customers who followed the "rules" upset that they weren't enforced. It is very hard to keep everyone happy and I don't believe it's really fair to give any staff a bad review over this. Especially today when people get very hostile and belligerent when confronted.

I agree with you to a point.  However, on a cruise- people know, or should know, what is expected of them as far as apparel.  There are so many resources to determine what one needs to bring with them to prepare for various dining situations. If someone is dressed improperly for the venue, then the staff needs to tell them they are not dressed appropriately so that they are not embarrassed by others or feel awkward in the situation.

Seeing that your information notes you are from Charleston, SC, I am sure you see all kinds of apparel and people in vacation mode as well in your fine dining establishment.  I lived in Charleston for many years.   When people make reservations, many times they will call to ask what is acceptable attire.  If the person on the phone tells them they will not be turned away, they will wear the minimum standard or what they can "get away with" instead of dressing appropriately.  We dined at a place in the Market area last year.  Because we were delayed on our drive in to town, we called to check and see if his apparel would be acceptable or if we needed to cancel our reservations and reschedule for the next evening.  He was wearing jeans and a golf shirt.   He looked nice, but not quite what he should have been wearing.   When we arrived, we were given the once over by the staff and given the stink eye by many of the other guests in the restaurant.  We felt very uncomfortable and it was pretty clear we had violated the dress code. It was so awkward, we left. We were, of course, told we could stay and that the restaurant was sorry for the misunderstanding.  Had the person answering the phone told us that the acceptable attire for the restaurant was a long sleeved shirt, sport coat and nice slacks, we would have rescheduled our reservation to the next night.   
We were quite embarrassed and will not return to that restaurant again because the staff was not honest with us.  They would have let us in, but should have told us up front that while we would be let in, we would not be within the usual dress code.

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by legaljen1969

[legaljen1969]

3 hours ago, goldfish65 said:

Personally I love to dress up, not to the point of a tux but tie and blazer. My job is in a fine dining restaurant; enforcement puts the staff in a very hard position. If you are strict, and lets say one person arrives in nice shorts a few minutes after his group is seated, if he is turned away not only is it awkward for him, his friends who are not dressed much nicer have to wait while he goes and changes....or if he manages to breeze by the entrance, you'll have other customers who followed the "rules" upset that they weren't enforced. It is very hard to keep everyone happy and I don't believe it's really fair to give any staff a bad review over this. Especially today when people get very hostile and belligerent when confronted.

Also, if you are consistent then it should not be a problem.  It's inconsistent enforcement that causes a problem. 

And as for people being hostile and belligerent, that's because people allow themselves to be run over for fear of a bad review if they don't bow down and kiss the butts of the those who can't obey the rules.  If I were reading restaurant reviews and all of the bad reviews were for  "They didn't let me in because I was wearing shorts," I would pay that no attention. I would wonder why on earth a person tried to get into a place where they should have known better.   The other issue in Charleston is the extreme need to be gracious.  Pretty much anything goes.  That said, even as a college student in Charleston, I would have said that many places in the downtown area for evening dining were places where one should wear nicer than jeans and a tee shirt.   We have devolved into a society where there is too much "money talks."   People have gotten where they believe if they spend enough, they can behave any way they wish. They believe they can dress like slobs, make a mess, be ugly to staff, et cetera.  To use the word that seems to be the "dirty word of the South," people can be really TACKY.

 

[Tulsacoker]

24 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

Also, if you are consistent then it should not be a problem.  It's inconsistent enforcement that causes a problem. 
 

Well put, that is it in a nut shell right there. 

[goldfish65]

Legaljen I agree with you, it is the establishment's (land or ship) need to be gracious to everyone that makes it hard situation for staff. At my job, the dress code is explained over the phone and it is on the website. Sometimes the person who made the reservation does not explain the policy to everyone in his party. Or they think "dark jeans that are acceptable anywhere in Manhattan" will be allowed (we don't allow denim.) Or, they'll swear no one explained the dress code over the phone or that it is not posted on the website. It is a hard position for the (often young) staff at a hectic job to match wits with demanding people and that's why I would never write a bad review of an employee over dress code issues.

[ReneeFLL]

12 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Oceania does not have formal night. No special dress night at all. Oceania has country club casual every night. 
 

What you don’t understand is that what is special to you is not special to other people on vacation. I don’t mind dressing up for something special. The MDR on a cruise on any night is not that occasion. 

It has nothing to do with what I understand or don't. You don't seem to understand that RC calls it FORMAL night and people should respect that. I agree the MDR definitely isn't as fancy as it used to be, but people not respecting the request just makes it worse. These days it's all about me, me and more of me. 🙄

 

7 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Many people have explained their points of view.  Are you willing to accept different opinions? 

It isn't about my opinion which you seem to be making it about. Again, people should respect what RC is calling it and dress accordingly. Just because they don't enforce their suggestion doesn't mean people should ignore it. If I went to a restaurant and they suggested to dress formally then I would do it or not go there. There would be other places to eat where my attire would be appropriate.

 

I think it's great when people do wear tuxes and gowns, but if they choose not to they should at least make a simple effort to dress up. 

 

 

[Charles4515]

13 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

It has nothing to do with what I understand or don't. You don't seem to understand that RC calls it FORMAL night and people should respect that. I agree the MDR definitely isn't as fancy as it used to be, but people not respecting the request just makes it worse. These days it's all about me, me and more of me. 🙄

 

 

RC only makes a dress suggestion. That is how they word it. Having seen what most passengers wear I don't consider that my choosing not to wear formal clothes is all about me. Also these days I would feel more out of place wearing formal clothing. 

[goldfish65]

To be exact "formal" is black tie for men and long dresses for women. But that distinction is fading as those of us who know that are dying off!

[HBE4]

27 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Also these days I would feel more out of place wearing formal clothing. 

 

I think that is part of the issue...or divide...between those that like to get dressed up and those that tend to be more casual. As I said in an earlier post, formal night is to create an elegant atmosphere. As more and more tend to go casual on formal night, people will start to feel out of place wearing formal clothing b/c lets face it, who likes being over-dressed for an occasion?

 

My 2 cents: There are 5 nights on a cruise that you can dress in a relaxed manner. But on the 2 formal night, at least make an attempt. Maybe not tux-and-long gowns formal but definitely more than jeans or shorts (or jean shorts😱) and polo shirt.

[rigs32]

On 11/15/2019 at 4:00 AM, ReneeFLL said:

 

We just got off of a 7 night Allure cruise and they were listed as formal nights. Hubby wore tux and I wore a gown. 

 

Funny how some people say they don't want to take up room by packing formal clothes, but they have no problem packing for theme nights. 🙄

 

Based on your user name, I assume you live near Ft Lauderdale?  And Allure is currently sailing from Ft Lauderdale, so I guess you didn't have to worry about the weight and size of your luggage.  The rest of us have to pay to check a bag when we fly and it's just not worth it sometimes.

 

Packing a pair of leggings for a theme night takes up a tiny amount of space.  A formal gown and shoes to match can take up a lot more space in my suitcase.  I'll certainly wear a nice dress and dressy sandals for formal night, but I'm not going to feel back about not packing true formal wear.  I wear a suit and heels to work most days and I don't want to deal with all that on vacation. While you may label me as disrespectful, I don't think rolling your eyes at others' choices is very kind.

Edited November 21, 2019 by rigs32

[Esprit]

21 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

lets face it, who likes being over-dressed for an occasion?

 

My 2 cents: There are 5 nights on a cruise that you can dress in a relaxed manner. But on the 2 formal night, at least make an attempt. Maybe not tux-and-long gowns formal but definitely more than jeans or shorts (or jean shorts😱) and polo shirt.

I'd rather be over dressed for any occasion.

Always with a nice pair of Jeffery West shoes too.

No need for suggested dress codes for me and the wife where ever we dine.

[LMaxwell]

6 hours ago, Esprit said:

Thank you.

I just don't understand why some guys can't show respect towards their wives/partners and dress smartly to compliment them in their best outfits looking drop dead gorgeous. 

My wife hates dressing up.  Weddings and funerals only; her words.

[LMaxwell]

2 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

 

 

My 2 cents: There are 5 nights on a cruise that you can dress in a relaxed manner. But on the 2 formal night, at least make an attempt. Maybe not tux-and-long gowns formal but definitely more than jeans or shorts (or jean shorts😱) and polo shirt.

 

But...why?  For what purpose?

 

It's like asking women to wear bathing suits that are pleasing to the eye at CocoCay...no, no that one covers too much...I don't care if you are uncomfortable, you are the scenery...

Edited November 22, 2019 by LMaxwell