Wear Your Best. Is this the "new formal" fleet wide

[UnorigionalName]

Yay, another dress code thread! more drama!

 

The change in dress is a reflection of the change in times.  I think one of the reasons there is such a discrepancy in opinions for what is and what is not socially acceptable is that there are people from all sorts of social circles from all over the US, urban, rural, and international squeezed together.  There is no way the cruise lines are going to be able to keep everyone happy.

 

I think the cultural context of formal dress during transatlantic crossings is disappearing because all the people who have actually been on ocean liners with the primary purpose to cross oceans are disappearing.  I would guess the vast majority of people who cruise now grew up in the post-jet travel era.  Without that context, why even have formal nights on cruises? There's no need to have one.

 

Furthermore, the idea of formal dinners in general is disappearing.  The formal dinner party is like a relic of the past in metropolitan areas. You don't need to go meet up with people to flaunt your wealth and how much you traveled over dinners anymore, there's facebook and instagram for that.  

 

I think a part of it is also suits are so ubiquitous, it's not like back in the day when they were costly and formal wear was a way to display wealth.    Like in the modern urban setting, it's not so much about what the article of clothing is, like jacket vs shirt, but more the material and the cut and the fit.  Modern style is harder to quantitate and put a grasp on over.  Like a person in a designer shirt and designer jeans looks more "upscale" than someone in an ill-fitting suit.  I think that's why Celebrity changed their dress code, because their concept they want to be is more like "modern luxury" boutique hotels that younger wealthy people prefer.  Where suits and jackets aren't necessarily what defines dressy.

 

If you go to fancy restaurants in cities these days, it's not until you start thinking of like 3-star where jackets become somewhat more standard.

 

That's the price you pay for cruising with people from all walks of life, they bring their culture with them.

 

also, my view: if the MDR is serving food that tastes like olive garden, why in the world would I even think about changing for that.

Edited November 22, 2019 by UnorigionalName

[CruiseKeeper]

Wear your best is here on Anthem.   

[Cruise a holic]

1 hour ago, UnorigionalName said:

Yay, another dress code thread! more drama!

 

The change in dress is a reflection of the change in times.  I think one of the reasons there is such a discrepancy in opinions for what is and what is not socially acceptable is that there are people from all sorts of social circles from all over the US, urban, rural, and international squeezed together.  There is no way the cruise lines are going to be able to keep everyone happy.

 

I think the cultural context of formal dress during transatlantic crossings is disappearing because all the people who have actually been on ocean liners with the primary purpose to cross oceans are disappearing.  I would guess the vast majority of people who cruise now grew up in the post-jet travel era.  Without that context, why even have formal nights on cruises? There's no need to have one.

 

Furthermore, the idea of formal dinners in general is disappearing.  The formal dinner party is like a relic of the past in metropolitan areas. You don't need to go meet up with people to flaunt your wealth and how much you traveled over dinners anymore, there's facebook and instagram for that.  

 

I think a part of it is also suits are so ubiquitous, it's not like back in the day when they were costly and formal wear was a way to display wealth.    Like in the modern urban setting, it's not so much about what the article of clothing is, like jacket vs shirt, but more the material and the cut and the fit.  Modern style is harder to quantitate and put a grasp on over.  Like a person in a designer shirt and designer jeans looks more "upscale" than someone in an ill-fitting suit.  I think that's why Celebrity changed their dress code, because their concept they want to be is more like "modern luxury" boutique hotels that younger wealthy people prefer.  Where suits and jackets aren't necessarily what defines dressy.

 

If you go to fancy restaurants in cities these days, it's not until you start thinking of like 3-star where jackets become somewhat more standard.

 

That's the price you pay for cruising with people from all walks of life, they bring their culture with them.

 

also, my view: if the MDR is serving food that tastes like olive garden, why in the world would I even think about changing for that.

Fortunately in our family and same with our friends and neighbors, most enjoy celebrating special occasions, such as weddings, engagement parties,  anniversaries, and other special occasions  by dressing up.  We are a diverse group- all ages, races and religions and enjoy formal parts that include dressing up to celebrate the special occasion.

 

The formal dinners in general aren't disappearing- not in all communities.  It varies-

Edited November 23, 2019 by Cruise a holic

[Midwestgal]

I’m still stuck on the Golden Coral remark😳

 

As far as demographics go trust me you never know how much money someone has based on the way they are dressed, you would be very surprised .....just saying.  
 

That being said I do believe people should dress neatly for dinner and slacks and a nice blouse works fine. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Midwestgal

[Milwaukee Eight]

6 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

I  was curious enough the airline excessive luggage excuse, so I broke out my digital scale to see what dressing up for formal night would mean on anyone's luggage allowance.  I didn't count trousers, shoes, or shirts since those can be worn on multiple evenings on the ship. The variable for a man to look dressed up for formal/gala/whatever the cruise line calls it is a dinner jacket and tie ( and I forgo the tie on my ensemble)  With all of this being said, I weighed a sport coat and two ties and then weighed a suit jacket and two ties.

 

The sport coat and ties weighed 2 lbs 2 oz.

The suit coat and ties weighed 2 lbs even.

 

I don't think two pounds is the real reason - it's just an excuse.

 

 

We used to pack two large suitcases and two carryon. Now we are down to one suitcase and one carryon. 

[Iamcruzin]

5 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

Yay, another dress code thread! more drama!

 

The change in dress is a reflection of the change in times.  I think one of the reasons there is such a discrepancy in opinions for what is and what is not socially acceptable is that there are people from all sorts of social circles from all over the US, urban, rural, and international squeezed together.  There is no way the cruise lines are going to be able to keep everyone happy.

 

I think the cultural context of formal dress during transatlantic crossings is disappearing because all the people who have actually been on ocean liners with the primary purpose to cross oceans are disappearing.  I would guess the vast majority of people who cruise now grew up in the post-jet travel era.  Without that context, why even have formal nights on cruises? There's no need to have one.

 

Furthermore, the idea of formal dinners in general is disappearing.  The formal dinner party is like a relic of the past in metropolitan areas. You don't need to go meet up with people to flaunt your wealth and how much you traveled over dinners anymore, there's facebook and instagram for that.  

 

I think a part of it is also suits are so ubiquitous, it's not like back in the day when they were costly and formal wear was a way to display wealth.    Like in the modern urban setting, it's not so much about what the article of clothing is, like jacket vs shirt, but more the material and the cut and the fit.  Modern style is harder to quantitate and put a grasp on over.  Like a person in a designer shirt and designer jeans looks more "upscale" than someone in an ill-fitting suit.  I think that's why Celebrity changed their dress code, because their concept they want to be is more like "modern luxury" boutique hotels that younger wealthy people prefer.  Where suits and jackets aren't necessarily what defines dressy.

 

If you go to fancy restaurants in cities these days, it's not until you start thinking of like 3-star where jackets become somewhat more standard.

 

That's the price you pay for cruising with people from all walks of life, they bring their culture with them.

 

also, my view: if the MDR is serving food that tastes like olive garden, why in the world would I even think about changing for that.

Well put. Sums it up completely. 

[Joebucks]

15 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

Yay, another dress code thread! more drama!

 

The change in dress is a reflection of the change in times.  I think one of the reasons there is such a discrepancy in opinions for what is and what is not socially acceptable is that there are people from all sorts of social circles from all over the US, urban, rural, and international squeezed together.  There is no way the cruise lines are going to be able to keep everyone happy.

 

I think the cultural context of formal dress during transatlantic crossings is disappearing because all the people who have actually been on ocean liners with the primary purpose to cross oceans are disappearing.  I would guess the vast majority of people who cruise now grew up in the post-jet travel era.  Without that context, why even have formal nights on cruises? There's no need to have one.

 

Furthermore, the idea of formal dinners in general is disappearing.  The formal dinner party is like a relic of the past in metropolitan areas. You don't need to go meet up with people to flaunt your wealth and how much you traveled over dinners anymore, there's facebook and instagram for that.  

 

I think a part of it is also suits are so ubiquitous, it's not like back in the day when they were costly and formal wear was a way to display wealth.    Like in the modern urban setting, it's not so much about what the article of clothing is, like jacket vs shirt, but more the material and the cut and the fit.  Modern style is harder to quantitate and put a grasp on over.  Like a person in a designer shirt and designer jeans looks more "upscale" than someone in an ill-fitting suit.  I think that's why Celebrity changed their dress code, because their concept they want to be is more like "modern luxury" boutique hotels that younger wealthy people prefer.  Where suits and jackets aren't necessarily what defines dressy.

 

If you go to fancy restaurants in cities these days, it's not until you start thinking of like 3-star where jackets become somewhat more standard.

 

That's the price you pay for cruising with people from all walks of life, they bring their culture with them.

 

also, my view: if the MDR is serving food that tastes like olive garden, why in the world would I even think about changing for that.

 

Well said. Formal dress all started when cruising was a thing only the wealthy could afford. It was not an entertainment vessel. Dressing up and being fancy WAS the entertainment. Fast-forward to today, and it has devolved into an opportunity for the cruise lines to sell pictures

 

The great thing about cruising, is that there are options out there for everyone. Some people won't admit that it's a bragging event. Let's be real, to many people, it absolutely is.

[legaljen1969]

I think I have finally definitively discovered the real problem with the dress code or dress suggestions.  It isn't too much weight in the luggage. It isn't the type of clothes to be worn. It isn't the number of nights the suggestion exists. 

 

It is the fact that there is a "suggestion" at all. It looks too much like a "rule" to some people and there are people who make their whole life's mission to not comply with suggestions, rules, guidelines, et cetera.   If there is a rule, there is always who is far too special, enlightened, "woke", or otherwise elevated to some higher plane of existence and legendary status usually known only to themselves and their immediate travel companions, to be constrained by mere suggestions for anything.   And if anyone dare call it a "rule" or"law", they are definitely not to go to comply. In fact it is there life's mission to specifically NOT comply.  

 

Yes a cruise is a cruise. A vacation is a vacation.  Enjoy your dang vacation and do what makes you happy. But also, there are rules and suggestions and laws and guidelines to help everyone have the most pleasant experience possible.  

 

 

[UnorigionalName]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:56 AM, legaljen1969 said:

I think I have finally definitively discovered the real problem with the dress code or dress suggestions.  It isn't too much weight in the luggage. It isn't the type of clothes to be worn. It isn't the number of nights the suggestion exists. 

 

It is the fact that there is a "suggestion" at all. It looks too much like a "rule" to some people and there are people who make their whole life's mission to not comply with suggestions, rules, guidelines, et cetera.   If there is a rule, there is always who is far too special, enlightened, "woke", or otherwise elevated to some higher plane of existence and legendary status usually known only to themselves and their immediate travel companions, to be constrained by mere suggestions for anything.   And if anyone dare call it a "rule" or"law", they are definitely not to go to comply. In fact it is there life's mission to specifically NOT comply.  

 

Yes a cruise is a cruise. A vacation is a vacation.  Enjoy your dang vacation and do what makes you happy. But also, there are rules and suggestions and laws and guidelines to help everyone have the most pleasant experience possible.  

 

I thought that was what this thread was about.  Royal carribean (and celebrity) made the rules a lot more lax.  This was started I thought by people complaining that the rules are going away and bemoaning the loss.

 

So you should be satisfied right? the rules are gone so now people are not violating these sacred rules.

[legaljen1969]

5 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

I thought that was what this thread was about.  Royal carribean (and celebrity) made the rules a lot more lax.  This was started I thought by people complaining that the rules are going away and bemoaning the loss.

 

So you should be satisfied right? the rules are gone so now people are not violating these sacred rules.

It has nothing to do with my satisfaction.  I was merely saying that I think that's what people get so worked up about- the fact that there is any sort of suggestion or rule at all.  I don't think the people who get upset about the actual items of clothing that are suggested to wear. I think they are upset that there is any suggestion. 
I am NOT upset with suggestions. I don't bemoan them. I don't bemoan people wanting to dress as they please, but I think, like anywhere else in the world, certain venues should and will have certain apparel suggestions.

I think we all know people in this world whose sole purpose is to bend, flex, or break the rules. No matter what the rule is, or the suggestion is, they want to do the opposite "just because."  Certain people just thumb their noses at rules just because they exist at all. 

Personally, I am not one of those people. I am pretty much a rule follower.

[UnorigionalName]

23 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

It has nothing to do with my satisfaction.  I was merely saying that I think that's what people get so worked up about- the fact that there is any sort of suggestion or rule at all.  I don't think the people who get upset about the actual items of clothing that are suggested to wear. I think they are upset that there is any suggestion. 
I am NOT upset with suggestions. I don't bemoan them. I don't bemoan people wanting to dress as they please, but I think, like anywhere else in the world, certain venues should and will have certain apparel suggestions.

I think we all know people in this world whose sole purpose is to bend, flex, or break the rules. No matter what the rule is, or the suggestion is, they want to do the opposite "just because."  Certain people just thumb their noses at rules just because they exist at all. 

Personally, I am not one of those people. I am pretty much a rule follower.

 

That's the thing, they don't have apparel rules anymore. so now no is getting worked up about the fact that there are rules, since the strict rules are now gone. 

 

The only strict rule that remains that i can find is this: 

Please note that bare feet are not allowed at any time in any venue and tank tops are not permitted in the Main Dining Room or Specialty Dining venues for dinner.

 

So as long as they don't do that, they are following the rules.  So certain venues have "suggestions" but no rules.  So are you now also upset that people don't follow suggestions? 

 

And i'm telling you, what you think is "proper apparel suggestions" is based on your cultural context, and it may not be the cultural context that your fellow passengers share.  In their eyes, you may be the one dressed out of proper attire and out of context. 

[plaz70]

On 11/23/2019 at 9:56 AM, legaljen1969 said:

I think I have finally definitively discovered the real problem with the dress code or dress suggestions.  It isn't too much weight in the luggage. It isn't the type of clothes to be worn. It isn't the number of nights the suggestion exists. 

 

It is the fact that there is a "suggestion" at all. It looks too much like a "rule" to some people and there are people who make their whole life's mission to not comply with suggestions, rules, guidelines, et cetera.   

 

 

 

No one is refusing to dress formal as a way to rebel against suggestions.  People are not dressing formal because they don't want to and there is no requirement to do so.  Society changes with time.  Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.  Better or worse is often just an opinion.

[mugtech]

6 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

I think we all know people in this world whose sole purpose is to bend, flex, or break the rules. No matter what the rule is, or the suggestion is, they want to do the opposite "just because."  Certain people just thumb their noses at rules just because they exist at all. 

Personally, I am not one of those people. I am pretty much a rule follower.

As any lawyer would profess.

[John&LaLa]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:03 PM, LMaxwell said:

My wife hates dressing up.  Weddings and funerals only; her words.

 

Cruising is one of the few places to still play dress up. Its fun.

[John&LaLa]

On 11/22/2019 at 11:50 AM, Cruise a holic said:

Honestly, I believe that as the years go by, many people, including myself, gain weight- so some people say- why buy new dress clothes- I will loose the weight and don't want to buy large sized clothes- but most of us do not loose the weight!  Not fat shaming, but I bet easier to by elastic wasted casual clothes and tee shirts for many.  Or wear tight clothes.

 

The beauty of tuxedo pants is the expandable waist. My first one lasted almost 30 years. 

 

Now the jackets to small🤣

[John&LaLa]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:27 PM, Cruise a holic said:

I agree.  We both always dress for formal night- and sometimes, I have to purchase new clothes- but styles change so I wouldn't want to wear the same old same old on multiple cruises.  My DH also purchases new clothes as he likes to be stylish also .

 

Even our children dress for formal nights.

 

This applies mainly to the guys,  but formal clothes don't go out of style for the most part

[davekathy]

54 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

This applies mainly to the guys,  but formal clothes don't go out of style for the most part

The just get smaller over the years. 

[lenquixote66]

I never owned a tuxedo . In fact ,the me from my younger days could never imagine being on a cruise ship. 

[cruiselvr04]

We dress for dinner every night.  I wear a dress and the DH at least a polo and dress pants.  If people don’t want to that’s fine....there’s the windjammer for that.  I’d be okay with getting rid of formal nights but I’ll still dress for dinner.  We are more resort casual I guess. We are not trying to impress anyone.  It just feels right to do so going to the MDR or speciality restaurants. 

 

On Adventure this month they are still listed as formal nights.  We also had tropical and Caribbean nights.....tell me what’s the difference in that. Lol. 

[CleverFirst]

RCCL's demographic is young people, who sure, some may want to dress nicely and enjoy a formal dress night, but would never gatekeep someone else's experience and judge and throw a fit and threaten a crew member with a bad review over some other passenger's tank top or ballcap. 

80% of RCCL's cruisers are under the age of 55. The new relaxed dress code is to cater to us. There's always HAL for those who feel as if they may faint over the dreadful thought of casual clothing during the evening on a CARIBBEAN CRUISE.   🙃

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283624626_Exploring_Cruise_Passengers'_Demographics_Experience_and_Satisfaction_with_Cruising_the_Western_Caribbean

Edited November 26, 2019 by CleverFirst

[Iamcruzin]

8 hours ago, plaz70 said:

 

No one is refusing to dress formal as a way to rebel against suggestions.  People are not dressing formal because they don't want to and there is no requirement to do so.  Society changes with time.  Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.  Better or worse is often just an opinion.

Frankly the only people who care about the dress code are the small percent of cruise critic passengers. Most just observe what is being worn on formal night and follow suit....no pun intended.

[John&LaLa]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:03 PM, LMaxwell said:

My wife hates dressing up.  Weddings and funerals only; her words.

 

That's to bad.

 

My wife loves dressing up, cruising is one of the few times you can do it properly.

 

You really can't dress festive for a funeral, and its bad form to look better than the bride at a wedding😉

 

Cruising works very well

[John&LaLa]

9 minutes ago, CleverFirst said:

RCCL's demographic is young people, who sure, some may want to dress nicely and enjoy a formal dress night, but would never gatekeep someone else's experience and judge and throw a fit and threaten a crew member with a bad review over some other passenger's tank top or ballcap. 

80% of RCCL's cruisers are under the age of 55. The new relaxed dress code is to cater to us. There's always HAL for those who feel as if they may faint over the dreadful thought of casual clothing during the evening on a CARIBBEAN CRUISE.   🙃

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283624626_Exploring_Cruise_Passengers'_Demographics_Experience_and_Satisfaction_with_Cruising_the_Western_Caribbean

 

You might want to clean this up before it gets deleted. I'm sure its a fascinating article 

Edited November 26, 2019 by John&LaLa

[Iamcruzin]

2 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

This applies mainly to the guys,  but formal clothes don't go out of style for the most part

I think back to the 70's and prom night.  Colors, fabrics certainly changed along with the ruffle shirts. Now for the most part it's just the lapel width and single breasted or double breasted along with  neck tie vs bow tie that change. If you rent you will always be in style and if you buy find a classic. 

[John&LaLa]

2 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

I think back to the 70's and prom night.  Colors, fabrics certainly changed along with the ruffle shirts. Now for the most part it's just the lapel width and single breasted or double breasted along with  neck tie vs bow tie that change. If you rent you will always be in style and if you buy find a classic. 

 

True, but what is old is often new again. 

 

My late 80's slightly snug tuxedo looks the same as what you can buy new. The peak lapels on my new one are a little wider.