Wear Your Best. Is this the "new formal" fleet wide

[HBE4]

3 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

But...why?  For what purpose?

 

It's like asking women to wear bathing suits that are pleasing to the eye at CocoCay...no, no that one covers too much...I don't care if you are uncomfortable, you are the scenery...

 

Yes. Beauty before comfort!

[Iamcruzin]

4 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

My wife hates dressing up.  Weddings and funerals only; her words.

My wife also hates dressing up. She hates shopping for the dress even more. Even her wedding dress was a simple dress that her Aunt made for her. Now when we have a wedding or other formal occasion to attend  she grabs a glass of wine and clicks add to cart. A few days later Macy's dress department arrives at the house.

[WAMarathoner]

21 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

There is absolutely nothing special about the MDR on formal night. I would be more likely to dress for a specialty restaurant on any given night.

I agree with you here.  Formal night ought to be something special.  The menu ought to be the best of the cruise, and there should be more than just dinner for those dressed.  There should be a Captain's reception afterward and dance or something that requires a particular dress code.  We have found that on RCCL, only about 1/10 people dress up.  On our last Princess cruise, I'm guessing it was closer to 50% (though that didn't necessarily mean a tux and gown).  Different demographic.

 

As to how the dress of others affects people, do you understand the concept of ambiance?  My local Denny's might have a chef who is just as good as Ruth's Chris, but I'm not spending my anniversary there.

[WAMarathoner]

9 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

It's like asking women to wear bathing suits that are pleasing to the eye at CocoCay...no, no that one covers too much...I don't care if you are uncomfortable, you are the scenery...

You have it backward.  No, no, cover that up, please!  Especially to hairy, overweight men in Speedos 🤢 (to all men in Speedos, but especially those who are fat and particularly hairy).

[LMaxwell]

15 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

Again, people should respect what RC is calling it and dress accordingly. 

 

Needs to start with RC.  When I see the company begin making an effort again then it is a discussion to have.  Right now they just phone it in.  Undeniable. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

8 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

My wife also hates dressing up.

This ^.  Same here. If she says for me to dress up, I will. Not going to happen on a cruise ship on vacation. 

[SargassoPirate]

Regarding the "luggage restrictions" excuse, has anyone actually weighed "formal" wear?

 

As I've stated before, I can get dressed up enough to pass for "formal" nights nowadays with a pair of black slacks, a black ribbed T-shirt, and a black sport coat.  They don't take up that much room, they don't weigh that much, and I look better than half of the men in there who can't be bothered to dress for dinner.

 

What one wears in any social setting speaks volumes about the person and is the face that one presents to the world.  Dress for Golden Corral one way, but in a more elegant setting the Golden Corral duds should be put aside.

 

[Iamcruzin]

10 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Regarding the "luggage restrictions" excuse, has anyone actually weighed "formal" wear?

 

As I've stated before, I can get dressed up enough to pass for "formal" nights nowadays with a pair of black slacks, a black ribbed T-shirt, and a black sport coat.  They don't take up that much room, they don't weigh that much, and I look better than half of the men in there who can't be bothered to dress for dinner.

 

What one wears in any social setting speaks volumes about the person and is the face that one presents to the world.  Dress for Golden Corral one way, but in a more elegant setting the Golden Corral duds should be put aside.

 

I'm not sold on the airline luggage excuse and wish people would just come out and say they just don't want to dress up. Those still blaming the airlines are only kidding themselves. No need to bring a suit unless you want to and women's formal wear hasn't had any weight to it since the 80's with the heavy fabrics and shoulder pads.

[Esprit]

11 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Regarding the "luggage restrictions" excuse, has anyone actually weighed "formal" wear?

 

Judging by the size of some of the guys I saw on Allure last month, my four slim fit formal jackets that I took would weigh the same as one of theirs!

I too agree the flight weight restriction is a lame excuse, along with the claim that formal wear is uncomfortable, and the pathetic worry that you may feel overdressed. 

[plaz70]

It's what you wear from ear to ear and not from head to toe that matters

 

[HBE4]

3 hours ago, WAMarathoner said:

I agree with you here.  Formal night ought to be something special.  The menu ought to be the best of the cruise, and there should be more than just dinner for those dressed.  There should be a Captain's reception afterward and dance or something that requires a particular dress code. 

 

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Needs to start with RC.  When I see the company begin making an effort again then it is a discussion to have.  Right now they just phone it in.  Undeniable. 

 

100% agree. Make formal night a more "special" occasion with a top-notch menu, special entertainment and just as importantly,  arrange the entertainment schedule to allow for a leisurely dining pace so the food is not just thrown at you as you are rushed out.  Make one formal night akin to a New Years Eve celebration which will encourage people to dress up & make it mandatory (those that want to skip can still go to WJ) while the 2nd formal night can remain as is - suggested formal for those that want t get a 2nd wearing of clothing (I wear the same suit jacket, pants and shoes but change the tie & shirt to look different) but not mandatory. 

 

 

[Iamcruzin]

33 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

 

100% agree. Make formal night a more "special" occasion with a top-notch menu, special entertainment and just as importantly,  arrange the entertainment schedule to allow for a leisurely dining pace so the food is not just thrown at you as you are rushed out.  Make one formal night akin to a New Years Eve celebration which will encourage people to dress up & make it mandatory (those that want to skip can still go to WJ) while the 2nd formal night can remain as is - suggested formal for those that want t get a 2nd wearing of clothing (I wear the same suit jacket, pants and shoes but change the tie & shirt to look different) but not mandatory. 

 

 

I bet if they set up a formal event and charged $500 a person for a limited amount of guests, people  would be climbing over each other to book it like they do for the $1600 cabana's. Remember if the price drops you can cancel and rebook it.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Iamcruzin

[legaljen1969]

19 hours ago, goldfish65 said:

Legaljen I agree with you, it is the establishment's (land or ship) need to be gracious to everyone that makes it hard situation for staff. At my job, the dress code is explained over the phone and it is on the website. Sometimes the person who made the reservation does not explain the policy to everyone in his party. Or they think "dark jeans that are acceptable anywhere in Manhattan" will be allowed (we don't allow denim.) Or, they'll swear no one explained the dress code over the phone or that it is not posted on the website. It is a hard position for the (often young) staff at a hectic job to match wits with demanding people and that's why I would never write a bad review of an employee over dress code issues.

Well that certainly makes sense.  
I believe the point being made here is not so much that the staff is at fault for allowing everyone in.  I really wouldn't rate a person poorly for being accommodating at all. 
The main point I was making is that people those who fail or refuse to comply with the dress code seem to be the ones marking folks down and complaining because of THEIR (the rule-breaker's) own failure.  As it stands now, in order to keep the peace and get the precious "10" rating, it is more compelling to them to let things ride.  What if people who expected the dress code to be enforced made a strong enough stand to make it "worthwhile" to enforce the dress code to achieve their precious  "10" rating? 
I personally try to be empathetic to the person who is in the position of trying to enforce the rules.  It's not easy, especially when people are so demanding.
However, if I am expecting an upscale experience in a place and I walk in and a significant number of patrons look and act like they are going to Uncle Bobby's backyard barbecue, I might not return to that location.

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

I bet if they set up a formal event and charged $500 a person for a limited amount of guests, people  would be climbing over each other to book it like they do for the $1600 cabana's. Remember if the price drops you can cancel and rebook it.

 I always like your thoughts here.  One of the two seatings could be designated formal with a special benefit or two and the other as casual "my way" dress suggestion.  That way the formals wouldn't be forced to eat with the Golden Corral folks.  They class system is already at work with suite benefits, why not extend it to people who want a more refined dining experience?

 

We cruise back and forth to Europe on the QM2. Their dress code is well known and we pack accordingly.  I wouldn't expect to show up for dinner in shorts, a wife beater, my ballcap on backwards, and expect to be seated.

 

 

[Cruise a holic]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:02 AM, legaljen1969 said:

Yes, yes and more yes. 

Honestly, I believe that as the years go by, many people, including myself, gain weight- so some people say- why buy new dress clothes- I will loose the weight and don't want to buy large sized clothes- but most of us do not loose the weight!  Not fat shaming, but I bet easier to by elastic wasted casual clothes and tee shirts for many.  Or wear tight clothes.

[legaljen1969]

I have been thinking about this thread and the expectations of others.   I think one of the main issues is that a lot of people view the ambience in the main dining room as equivalent quality to maybe Longhorn Steakhouse or Ruby Tuesday (if they give it that much) where you can pretty much go as  you please.  Others view the ambience as Ruth's Chris-  where one might go in pricey designer jeans or a nice pair of khakis and a polo shirt, but perhaps somewhere you could go in a suit and cocktail dress on a special night and not feel overdressed.
I work in the legal field and one of the rules here is that people cannot wear shorts to Court.  If they do, it is a $75 contempt of court fine and the hearing is automatically rescheduled.  We make that clear to our clients and are very specific that if the Court hearing has to be rescheduled for their failure to dress appropriately,  they will be billed for the attorney's time to appear in Court for both a hearing that is cancelled and the rescheduled ones.    We have gone through various explanations of what is appropriate clothing.  We do have a relatively "small town" Court so nothing around here is like going to Court in a big city.  I have tried "wear clothing you would wear to church" and "dress as though you were going out to a nice restaurant for dinner."  Well "nice restaurant" is relative.   On the same day we gave three different clients the exact same instructions.  One showed up in a nice golf shirt and a clean pair of khakis.  One showed up in his least dirty pair of blue jeans.  One showed up in a business suit.  I was a little surprised at the blue jeans, but then thought this guy usually probably grabs drive through or eats a quick sandwich from the quick stop- so Golden Corral where he can sit down is probably "nice" to him.
Anyhow "nice" is relative.  
Goldfish is right, strictly speaking "formal" is black tie for men and long dresses for women. 
I get that people want to be "resort casual" on cruises. They may not want to have to pay for their formal wear to be pressed if they had to put it in a little suitcase to avoid baggage fees.  They may not want to incur fees to bring a hanging bag.
I don't think the "weight" of the luggage is necessarily the issue that people are talking about with baggage fees.  But bringing more baggage or the necessity of having to have clothes pressed may be an expense one doesn't wish to incur.  It's not like a hotel where you could possibly pull out the ironing board and do a quick touch up to a shirt that got wrinkled.  Sure you can hang your clothes in the bathroom while you shower to maybe get the wrinkles out. 
Anyhow, to each his own.  Dine in whatever venue is available to you on a given night based on the clothing you bring and wish to wear.  You have choices. 

[legaljen1969]

11 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

Honestly, I believe that as the years go by, many people, including myself, gain weight- so some people say- why buy new dress clothes- I will loose the weight and don't want to buy large sized clothes- but most of us do not loose the weight!  Not fat shaming, but I bet easier to by elastic wasted casual clothes and tee shirts for many.  Or wear tight clothes.

Yes, it is easier and probably cheaper to buy elastic waisted clothes. There are plenty of nice looking clothes thought with some elastic or stretch in them.  It doesn't have to be sweatpants and tee-shirts.  If it is a weight issue, it is unfair to your partner, whether husband or wife, if they want to dress up and feel special, for you (generic "you"-not specifically "YOU" Cruise a holic) to require them dress down because you feel uncomfortable in your body, in your clothes, or whatever.  Just because we may feel like a lump in unshapely clothes and maybe we want to ghost out, doesn't mean we really are needing to do so.  There are plenty of men and women in this world wearing all sorts of clothing, but they show up looking like superstars on the red carpet when the time is right. They don't make their partner sit at home with popcorn and miss the festivities.
I am not a petite person. I have some size on me (like a lot of extra size right now). I often wear flowy fabrics and looser fitting clothes, but put on nice accessories or find a nice looking print or fabric so my companions feel like I care enough about them to make an effort. I was losing weight last year and I was still seeing "fat me" in the mirror and I was dressing "fat me" until a friend went shopping with me and encouraged me to try different sizes and different materials.

[Cruise a holic]

I agree.  We both always dress for formal night- and sometimes, I have to purchase new clothes- but styles change so I wouldn't want to wear the same old same old on multiple cruises.  My DH also purchases new clothes as he likes to be stylish also .

 

Even our children dress for formal nights.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Cruise a holic

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Cruise a holic said:

I agree.  We both always dress for formal night- and sometimes, I have to purchase new clothes- but styles change so I wouldn't want to wear the same old same old on multiple cruises.  My DH also purchases new clothes as he likes to be stylish also .

 

Even our children dress for formal nights.

Nothing about any dining on Royal Caribbean should require buying new clothes. No one is going to remember what you or your DH were wearing. But hey if it makes you happy. 
 

I am a minimalist. I wear Prana Brion long pants in the evening. Very comfy. They don’t wrinkle. I wear polo shirts, black socks and black loafers. On dress up nights I do dress up... LOL .long sleeve dress shirt. Makes packing easy. I don’t think my clothes affect the ambiance. I have yet to wear shorts to the MDR in the evening but I don’t care if passengers do.  I might try it some evening.  But for the hoity toity fashionistas who think it does I don’t care. I don’t care if you sniff your noses. You have the choice of cruising on Cunard.  You can wear your tuxes and gowns and enjoy the dress up charade. The pretend is not necessary on Royal. I am not a businessman, a lawyer , waiter or an undertaker.  I don’t need to wear their uniforms. 

[SargassoPirate]

6 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

I'm not sold on the airline luggage excuse and wish people would just come out and say they just don't want to dress up. Those still blaming the airlines are only kidding themselves. No need to bring a suit unless you want to and women's formal wear hasn't had any weight to it since the 80's with the heavy fabrics and shoulder pads.

 

I  was curious enough the airline excessive luggage excuse, so I broke out my digital scale to see what dressing up for formal night would mean on anyone's luggage allowance.  I didn't count trousers, shoes, or shirts since those can be worn on multiple evenings on the ship. The variable for a man to look dressed up for formal/gala/whatever the cruise line calls it is a dinner jacket and tie ( and I forgo the tie on my ensemble)  With all of this being said, I weighed a sport coat and two ties and then weighed a suit jacket and two ties.

 

The sport coat and ties weighed 2 lbs 2 oz.

The suit coat and ties weighed 2 lbs even.

 

I don't think two pounds is the real reason - it's just an excuse.

 

 

[Charles4515]

23 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

I don't think two pounds is the real reason - it's just an excuse.

 

 

So what if it is not the real reason. Or if it is just an excuse. Whatever the reason they just don’t don’t want to wear a dinner jacket, sport coat or suit.  No reason for you to waste your time weighing clothes. On Royal Caribbean it’s their choice. Weighing clothes is not going to change their mind.  There is nothing you can do about it.    
 

 

[SargassoPirate]

20 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

So what if it is not the real reason. Or if it is just an excuse. Whatever the reason they just don’t don’t want to wear a dinner jacket, sport coat or suit.  No reason for you to waste your time weighing clothes. On Royal Caribbean it’s their choice. Weighing clothes is not going to change their mind.  There is nothing you can do about it.    
 

 

 It took about three minutes tops to weigh the two jacket and ties combos. No waste of time at all.  But isn't it humorous that the reason people throw out there for the reason they don't want to dress up is luggage restrictions?

 

What's next?  Bathrobe and flip flops in the MDR because they don't feel like dressing for dinner at all?

 

 

 

 

[davekathy]

12 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 It took about three minutes tops to weigh the two jacket and ties combos. No waste of time at all.  But isn't it humorous that the reason people throw out there for the reason they don't want to dress up is luggage restrictions?

 

What's next?  Bathrobe and flip flops in the MDR because they don't feel like dressing for dinner at all?

 

 

 

 

I would hope not. Everyone knows that the RC bathrobe has to be worn with the RC slippers not flip flops.  🙄

Edited November 22, 2019 by davekathy

[Iamcruzin]

4 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

 I always like your thoughts here.  One of the two seatings could be designated formal with a special benefit or two and the other as casual "my way" dress suggestion.  That way the formals wouldn't be forced to eat with the Golden Corral folks.  They class system is already at work with suite benefits, why not extend it to people who want a more refined dining experience?

 

We cruise back and forth to Europe on the QM2. Their dress code is well known and we pack accordingly.  I wouldn't expect to show up for dinner in shorts, a wife beater, my ballcap on backwards, and expect to be seated.

 

 

I’ve suggested that on other boards. Celebrity was forced to reinvent formal night because they segregated the dining experience so much with a special DR or Aqua class and a special DR for suite guests. Neither required formal nights. formal Dress  was only required in the MDR for the steerage class.

[SargassoPirate]

9 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

I’ve suggested that on other boards. Celebrity was forced to reinvent formal night because they segregated the dining experience so much with a special DR or Aqua class and a special DR for suite guests. Neither required formal nights. formal Dress  was only required in the MDR for the steerage class.

 I suspect the demographics of the cruisers attracted by the various cruise lines is also a big factor in what one can expect to see as being dressed for dinner on formal nights.  We expect a certain decorum when cruising on the QM2 and the vast majority of the cruisers respect it.  When we cruise on Viking, every night is smart/resort casual and again, the vast majority of the cruisers respect it.  

 

It does seem, however, that some cruise lines attact a demographic who, for whatever the reason, treat the ship and their fellow PAX as if they are on a party barge.

 

Fortunatly, there are plenty of ships on the seas.