Global news: Joy disembarking at San Pedro/LAX after 16 days - hundreds ?? sick from norovirus

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, LrgPizza said:

Here's a tip that many ignore. Even if you wash and sanitize your hands before serving yourself at the buffet, that protects others but not yourself. To protect yourself, you need to sanitize again AFTER you have served yourself but before you eat - sanitize after touching the serving utensils before you eat with those hands.

Or, just don't eat with your hands.

[mar214]

I was stricken with norovirus despite taking all precautions we know about. I tried to avoid touching handrails, elevator buttons, serving utensils, etc. etc. and it still happened. Really ruined our cruise-missed port stops, no appetite. Our cabin steward told us there were so many sickened passengers that we were very close to being barred from one of our ports. They even canceled the Meet the Captain event, and realized this was to keep him from shaking hands with everyone!  We had been receiving nice offers from the cruise line, and after we arrived home and asked about any cruise credit. they not only refused but stopped sending us those nice offers!!! It's difficult for me to see posted judgments about being people being careless and then getting norovirus-it can still happen to anyone unfortunately. 

[NLH Arizona]

15 minutes ago, mar214 said:

I was stricken with norovirus despite taking all precautions we know about. I tried to avoid touching handrails, elevator buttons, serving utensils, etc. etc. and it still happened. Really ruined our cruise-missed port stops, no appetite. Our cabin steward told us there were so many sickened passengers that we were very close to being barred from one of our ports. They even canceled the Meet the Captain event, and realized this was to keep him from shaking hands with everyone!  We had been receiving nice offers from the cruise line, and after we arrived home and asked about any cruise credit. they not only refused but stopped sending us those nice offers!!! It's difficult for me to see posted judgments about being people being careless and then getting norovirus-it can still happen to anyone unfortunately. 

Unfortunately, some folks that catch it don't go to medical or stay in their cabins.  On my last cruise, they had some, not many, with the virus.  Upon disembarkation, someone overheard a lady bragging that she had it, but didn't stay in her cabin, because she wanted to enjoy her cruise.  Wonder how many other passengers she infected?

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, mar214 said:

I was stricken with norovirus despite taking all precautions we know about. I tried to avoid touching handrails, elevator buttons, serving utensils, etc. etc. and it still happened. Really ruined our cruise-missed port stops, no appetite. Our cabin steward told us there were so many sickened passengers that we were very close to being barred from one of our ports. They even canceled the Meet the Captain event, and realized this was to keep him from shaking hands with everyone!  We had been receiving nice offers from the cruise line, and after we arrived home and asked about any cruise credit. they not only refused but stopped sending us those nice offers!!! It's difficult for me to see posted judgments about being people being careless and then getting norovirus-it can still happen to anyone unfortunately. 

Many Captains have gone to "fist bumps" instead of handshakes at the meet and greets, for this reason.

[Megalyn]

3 hours ago, LrgPizza said:

Here's a tip that many ignore. Even if you wash and sanitize your hands before serving yourself at the buffet, that protects others but not yourself. To protect yourself, you need to sanitize again AFTER you have served yourself but before you eat - sanitize after touching the serving utensils before you eat with those hands.

 

There are sanitizers now that form barriers on the skin, supposedly protecting for 24 hours.  I use a brand called Nano and I've also seen Prefense.  I have a compromised immune system and I've managed to stay healthy during my travels.

[GA Dave]

Also be aware that the CDC has mentioned that the flu shot distributed in the US this year may be off.  This could drop its effectiveness to as low as 40% this year.

 

Flu Vaccine Selections May Be Off The Mark

[Newfie Girl]

 Booked to leave on the Joy this Sunday...we are travelling from Eastern Canada so its not like I can postpone.  Any chance this will be an overly sanitized and extremely clean ship considering what just happened and I shouldn't be concerned?  Off to pharmacy for Pepto Bismol and imodium! 🙂

 

[LrgPizza]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Or, just don't eat with your hands.

 

Or touch your eye, or touch your plate where food might touch... You do have a point.  Or just wash your hands again. Better safe than sorry. I'm not planning to slice up my burger with a knife and fork any time soon. I'm all for washing often, but to each his own.

Edited November 25, 2019 by LrgPizza

[IrieBajan54]

19 hours ago, FranknBeans said:

I cant agree more that the bathroom habits I've witnessed cruise after cruise and men coming out of the cubicles holding there cell phones, not washing their hands, it just grosses me out and I now use paper towels when leaving bathrooms when exciting. 

I wont even get into the trough habits that we've witness and we only eat breakfast at the trough

..

Bingo! That darn cell phone is contaminated with all types of _____________. Years ago, I read that the dirtiest thing encountered when travelling was the hotel remote control. Now it definitely is a person's cell phone. That thing is used constantly and everywhere so it picks up all kinds of crud. Furthermore, it is never sanitized. 

[MrsK]

When a situation like this happens why does everyone right away jump on the passengers and blame them for what is going on?

 

That ship has a lot of crew on board of it also.  Who is to say it was not spread by a crew member?

 

I was onboard this sailing but so far I've been one of the lucky ones and managed not to catch the illness.

Edited November 25, 2019 by MrsK

[Firepath]

16 hours ago, nyc2pdx said:

So I’m sailing on the Joy in 2 weeks, first time cruising. I’m a little concerned....how concerned should I be?  I mean, I employ all standards of hygiene by washing my hands frequently and use hand sanitizer whenever I see it. Would that keep me from getting sick in case of an outbreak?  What happens if you do get sick? Lock you in your stateroom for the trip?  
 

 

Take disinfectant wipes and wipe down all surfaces and knobs in your cabin, as well as tv remote if you use it; repeat 1-2x per day with door knobs and switches that your cabin attendant might touch during his/her visits. Then, as others said, lots of hand washing and anti-bacterial gels in between.

[nyc2pdx]

2 minutes ago, Firepath said:

Take disinfectant wipes and wipe down all surfaces and knobs in your cabin, as well as tv remote if you use it; repeat 1-2x per day with door knobs and switches that your cabin attendant might touch during his/her visits. Then, as others said, lots of hand washing and anti-bacterial gels in between.

On it!  Thank you. 

[mking8288]

10 minutes ago, MrsK said:

When a situation like this happens ... That ship has a lot of crew on board of it also.  Who is to say it was not spread by a crew member ... 

 

Good point, as a matter of fact - on the Escape this January with the outbreak ... the Captain's letter to all passengers clearly, also, stated that more than 2% of the crew and passengers were affected ... prompting the response, and, that the cruiseline/ship is obligated to inform all passengers (chengpk75 can explain/elaborate on this further ... I don't recall the particulars/detailed WHO & US-CDC requirements)   Gossip onboard our sailing was that one of the ship's officer, one of the medical doctor also caught the virus ... somehow.  Some of the room stewards were not seen midway thru the 14 nights cruise ... in isolation/sick bay - complaints down our corridor (on Deck 13 Fwd ... not far from the medical center & we saw the extra foot traffic while waiting for the elevators) that some of the staterooms were not cleaned/serviced ... backup or other stewards eventually came around to help with servicing those cabins.  

 

As you said, patient zero could've well be a crew member, that unknowingly spread the virus to others.  Or, it is possible that folks went ashore at one of the ports for excursions and picked up the virus somewhere & those bugs traveled back ... evading the washy washy spray team.  

[AmazedByCruising]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Many Captains have gone to "fist bumps" instead of handshakes at the meet and greets, for this reason.

 

Are there very important reasons the other Captains haven't? Lining up with a few more high ranking officers, then shaking hands with every guest who doesn't mind the queue. It's almost as if the procedure is designed to infect as many as possible. You only need one infected (it doesn't need to be precisely Noro) guest in the line to sneeze in his right hand. To further enhance the procedure, it helps to give free drinks to everyone who just shook hands so they don't wash their hands before contaminating their glasses. This is the exact procedure I encountered on my last cruise.  I'd be less worried about the salt and pepper shakers when it's so easy to put up a sign that says "fist bumps or bowing only, thank you".

[Love my butler]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Many Captains have gone to "fist bumps" instead of handshakes at the meet and greets, for this reason.

Many people have gone to 'fist bumps' instead of handshakes.  There, fixed it for you.

[mlgb]

Bliss had medical evacuations at every port stop, and even one unscheduled one in Huatulco. Also another in the middle of the night while we were at the locks in the Panama Canal. Precautions were increased in the last week as they tried to keep their number under 2%. Library closed.  Merchandise was roped off so that you couldn't just handle it. Had to ask for food to be served at the buffets. Salt and pepper shakers replaced by little packets.  As soon as you tried to sit down someone would wipe some foul smelling fluid over your table. Saw all of this while on a Legend of the Seas which was a Noro ship in 2015.  Then, RCI blamed Guatemala. The precautions on Bliss also started in earnest after Guatemala. Not sure if they had people testing positive for Noro or were just taking precautions due to increasing numbers of passengers with GI and respiratory. 

 

Felt sorry for all the stewards who had to do extra cleaning/disinfecting  on the outsides of the cabins as well as their usual duty.  They had face masks to protect them from the fumes, at least. 

 

Maybe if NCL enforced the "don't fill your water/coffee bottle direct from the dispenser" and washie-washie before entering the buffet  earlier it wouldn't have taken off as it did. 

 

Lots of coughers and snifflers all around. Love watching sick people in Observation Lounge touch their noses with their hands and wondering where do they put them next.  CDC focuses on Noro because it's so contagious but IMO the coughers are a bigger problem.  And then you get to wait in an hour plus line bunched up with all the sickos on disembarkation!

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by mlgb

[dgreeney]

How about the people playing cards in the casino, those who touched their cards and then put their fingers in their mouth or bite their nails, then go on to touch their cards again.

Then they touch their chips. Yikes!  You need to bring a hand sanitizer an use it  after your touch your cards or chips. So many ways to get sick.

[MrGadget007]

Just got off this cruise, the lines to disembark were the reason why the 6 people were treated by the LA Fire Department. Sick people (had one guy complaining of chest pains) and their spouses were yelling to get help in the massive snaking lines. No bathrooms, no wheelchairs, no AED, no water, the port staff randomly telling people to go different ways (we went on a circular route with one person telling us to line up here with our luggage, only to turn around 50 feet farther and head right back) Then groups yelling as one port person tried to cut many in front of others. And only a few Customs agents to handle nearly 4000. It was a mess, but the boarding in Miami was just as bad. Ports and transportation companies were not prepared for this volume, or didn't care, the port staff was not prepared or even capable of handling it. Cruise itself was pretty good.

 

The Captain explained after we left Puerto Vallarta that enough people had been sick so they were implementing extra cleaning procedures to try and prevent any more exposure, then the next day it ramped up even more; no more serving yourself in the buffet line. The crew were working overtime and very vigilant. There were people sick on board, and they were being attended too, Don't know the actual numbers, because I stayed away from the medical deck and it's not my business. I'm sure some people didn't report and were the few in the line that collapsed. Not sure what the CDC report will actually be, but the news is always bulls__t speculation now anyhow, first to post and fBook it, instead of verifying anything.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, MrGadget007 said:

Not sure what the CDC report will actually be,

The report is already available. 127 of 3,602 passengers (3.53%) and 6 of 1769 crew (0.34%) of crew were ill at some point during the voyage. Causative agent is unknown, so not necessarily Noro. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2019/Norwegian-Joy_11-8.html

[Hunter1975]

I was on the Norwegian Joy 16 days Panama Canal cruise.  Many times, I have seen NCL staffers at the Garden Cafe entrance (buffet) did not stop people who didn't wash or clean their hand.  Feel like cruising on a cruise ship from a third world country!  NCL cut back on everything from food to service to entertainment!

[UFMOM]

I am currently dealing with an upper respiratory infection that started 2 days before leaving the Equinox this past Saturday. I feel that coughing in the elevators is a big factor. Unfortunately I use a cane and can not use the stairs easily. This is not the first time I’ve gotten this on a ship. I am extremely diligent about hand washing and sanitizer. Washing or sanitizing as you enter will not help after you touch tongs, menus and salt and pepper shakers etc. I sanitize right before I handle any food item when on a cruise. I have never gotten noro but there is no escaping droplet contamination from people coughing and sneezing as you pass or are near you in a theater or in a confined area. 

 

Mary Ann

[Oakman58]

Although I cruise on big ships I prefer not too and illness is one of the reasons.  The more passengers on a ship the greater the odds and numbers of sick people boarding.  I know you can catch something on any ship but I think there is greater risk with more passengers.  I've never had the norovirus but I've caught the cruise crud on a number of my cruises.  Cruise crud is a hacking cough that won't go away easily.

 

 

[chengkp75]

19 hours ago, MrsK said:

When a situation like this happens why does everyone right away jump on the passengers and blame them for what is going on?

 

That ship has a lot of crew on board of it also.  Who is to say it was not spread by a crew member?

 

I was onboard this sailing but so far I've been one of the lucky ones and managed not to catch the illness.

The CDC studies not only the raw numbers of illnesses, but the daily trend of reported cases as well.  If a crew member is patient zero, then the number of cases tends to stay at a fairly constant level throughout the cruise, and usually into the next cruise as well.  Remember, it is due to poor personal hygiene that noro is spread, so if the crew member is the one, his/her poor hygiene continues onboard the ship.

19 hours ago, mking8288 said:

 

Good point, as a matter of fact - on the Escape this January with the outbreak ... the Captain's letter to all passengers clearly, also, stated that more than 2% of the crew and passengers were affected ... prompting the response, and, that the cruiseline/ship is obligated to inform all passengers (chengpk75 can explain/elaborate on this further ... I don't recall the particulars/detailed WHO & US-CDC requirements)   Gossip onboard our sailing was that one of the ship's officer, one of the medical doctor also caught the virus ... somehow.  Some of the room stewards were not seen midway thru the 14 nights cruise ... in isolation/sick bay - complaints down our corridor (on Deck 13 Fwd ... not far from the medical center & we saw the extra foot traffic while waiting for the elevators) that some of the staterooms were not cleaned/serviced ... backup or other stewards eventually came around to help with servicing those cabins.  

 

As you said, patient zero could've well be a crew member, that unknowingly spread the virus to others.  Or, it is possible that folks went ashore at one of the ports for excursions and picked up the virus somewhere & those bugs traveled back ... evading the washy washy spray team.  

As I've said, every ship, every cruise, has to make a report of the number of GI cases reported during the cruise, before entering the US, every time, even if the number of cases is zero.  At 2% of passengers and crew, a "special report" must be made to the CDC, and when 3% of passengers and crew are reported, a second special report, along with a remediation plan must be submitted.

14 hours ago, njhorseman said:

The report is already available. 127 of 3,602 passengers (3.53%) and 6 of 1769 crew (0.34%) of crew were ill at some point during the voyage. Causative agent is unknown, so not necessarily Noro. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2019/Norwegian-Joy_11-8.html

Causative agent will not be known until fecal samples are tested at the CDC.  There are field tests for noro, but they have about a 75% accuracy level, so CDC doesn't rely on these.  And, the lower number of crew reported ill tends to point towards a passenger as patient zero.

[podgeandrodge]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:56 AM, UFMOM said:

 I have never gotten noro but there is no escaping droplet contamination from people coughing and sneezing as you pass or are near you in a theater or in a confined area. 

 

On Escape recently, in the main theatre for a show, a guy across the aisle from us sat there constantly coughing (I literally mean every 15 seconds) without covering his mouth even.  Now it may have been a tickly throat rather than an infection, but it was disgusting.  I wanted to ask him to leave, but DW stopped me saying it would be rude.  Perhaps, but I wouldn't go into a public place like that in that condition.

[mlgb]

Joy is back in the news again. Apparently whatever cleaning they did wasn't good enough. This time it's a "flu like illness". And I did come down with the nasty Bliss cold, on Thanksgiving. From standing cheek to jowl in the ridiculous immigration line in New York, with people coughing all around me. I managed to isolate myself as much as possible from the nasty passengers during the cruise (not taking the forward elevators for example) but it's unavoidable in an hour-long line.

 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-01/paramedics-respond-norwegian-cruise-line-passengers-sick

Edited December 2, 2019 by mlgb