Well, that'll leave a mark - Glory Damaged in Cozumel

[Cruise-Crazy]

1 hour ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I have only ever known midnight to be the start of the new day. In 24-hour (military) time, midnight can also be 00:00. When I served many years ago, midnight was "zero hundred hours." The start of the new day.

 

If you are signing off something at the end of the day it is 2400, if you are starting the new day it is 0000,

[Organized Chaos]

24 minutes ago, Cruise-Crazy said:

If you are signing off something at the end of the day it is 2400, if you are starting the new day it is 0000,

 

I was just offering some additional info. since your response to KTB was an attempt to say they were wrong. Within military regulations, there's some gray area. In the civilian world, as I said before, I have only ever known midnight to be the start of the new day. And since this is the Carnival forum, even Carnival acknowledges midnight as a new day, because when they refer to deadlines, they note the end of the day being 11:59pm.

 

Now back to the regularly scheduled discussion about how and where the Glory damage will be fixed.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Organized Chaos

[K.T.B.]

1 hour ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I was just offering some additional info. since your response to KTB was an attempt to say they were wrong. Within military regulations, there's some gray area. In the civilian world, as I said before, I have only ever known midnight to be the start of the new day. And since this is the Carnival forum, even Carnival acknowledges midnight as a new day, because when they refer to deadlines, they note the end of the day being 11:59pm.

 

Now back to the regularly scheduled discussion about how and where the Glory damage will be fixed.

 

I also think about how people also countdown on NYE and say, "Happy New Year," once the clock strikes midnight.  

 

But, yes, now back to the regularly scheduled discussion about how and where the Glory damage will be fixed.

[Cruise-Crazy]

1 hour ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I was just offering some additional info. since your response to KTB was an attempt to say they were wrong. Within military regulations, there's some gray area. In the civilian world, as I said before, I have only ever known midnight to be the start of the new day. And since this is the Carnival forum, even Carnival acknowledges midnight as a new day, because when they refer to deadlines, they note the end of the day being 11:59pm.

 

Now back to the regularly scheduled discussion about how and where the Glory damage will be fixed.

 

I have heard it both ways, I have been told there is no such thing as 2400 and don’t use it. 

Sorry, back to topic 🙂 

[Host Carolyn]

21 minutes ago, Cruise-Crazy said:

 

I have heard it both ways, I have been told there is no such thing as 2400 and don’t use it. 

Sorry, back to topic 🙂 

 

I'm holding my breath, make me a believer --- back to topic please😁 

[funkidd]

We are supposed to be going on the glory next Sunday the 29th. I’m curious to see what they do in the way of fixing the ship. I’m still not too sure what the damage is but it looks like from the pictures that the metal that was bent in between the two floors was the walk around area to clean the windows and of course the windows were blown out. I wonder how much damage took place on the actual deck between 3 and four?  I’m thinking they will partition that part of the dining room off and put a big curtain over the partition. 
 

any other ideas?  
 

I guess they could even come in there with metal plates and weld them in as a temporary partition. That would be pretty strong. 

[Sailorgrl7392]

I honestly think a really bad call was made here. Given the wind and currents from the videos, I think the bridge team would have been better off just canceling the port than trying to go in given the current situation. Sometimes the pilots will try and talk you into it being ok or its not ok and the captain will either disagree or agree. But by going in the captain and pilot and bridge team made a decision that it was safe. based on where the ship was at the time they hit the mooring stations would have been manned which means officers were standing by the lines on decks lower than the dining room. they got a first had view. When your standing by back there you usually have to call in distances to the bridge on ships/piers/obstructions so they know how far they are off something and to be honest it may have been they were given a bad distance and it caused a chain effect.  Its a really unfortunate situation that happened but stuff like this does happen just like cars and planes have accidents too.

 

Ive been in a situation where the captain and pilot misjudged the speed of the ship and slammed into the dock so hard that he gashed a hole in the side of the ship. We had to have the people who certify the ship come out and inspect the gash and then decide to see if we were fit to sail or not. they decided at that time that we need to have the issue fixed before we could sail again. the people who certify the ships have offices all around the world and can meet the ship at any port. they probably flew out which is why the ship was delayed from leaving. Since the carnival ship sailed the people who certify the ship decided it was safe to do so. I also had a time where the engines just didnt respond fast enough and we they hit some rocks on the bottom of the port. everyone flew out, divers went down and it was all ok and away we went.

 

I wish people could understand that when your on the bridge as an officer many more things are at play then these videos portray. all the stuff that goes on is recorded and tapped and papers are signed agreeing to everything so it will eventually come out what happened. and as reiterated before the pilot is only an advisor. he knows the local waters of the area and special information the bridge team may not know. Some ports you have to go really far in before you get the pilot and others are right at the get go. the pilot usually stands in a window with his tablet and coffee giving orders to the bridge team.  but even with the pilot, the captain can take the conn back from the pilot at any time and if the captain steps down then the other officers on the bridge are in charge in place of the captain and can do the same. a good bridge team will allow anyone at any time to decide if the maneuver or command isn't safe. but sometimes its too late to do something and you just have to let it play out sadly.

 

i feel bad for the entire bridge team because it is a really scary situation to be in when you hit something or something goes wrong. you then go under the microscope where your license is on the line. everyone involved has to be drug and alcohol and statements are taken and its a huge deal. im not surprised they wouldn't be talking about it because you don't know what could happen so its best to say nothing and the companies and lawyers will tell them that. at the end of the day though the captain is the one responsible even if the pilot has the conn. side note i do feel bad for the passengers in the dinning room because it was a scary situation to witness or be involved in.

 

 

Sorry for my long comment I just wanted to give my 10cents for whatever that may be worth to someone. the horn was more than likely the fire and emergency signal to let the crew know to go to their stations.  i could be wrong on that one though. i work in the industry too so this is just my opinion and my available knowledge. i hope that carnival will have it fixed in a timely manor. hopefully it won't be too big of a job. 

 

[grandmarnnurse]

On 12/20/2019 at 9:10 AM, darth frosty said:

I can see my stateroom for feb's panama canal cruise.

 

I hope this won't cause a delay

 

I know that's selfish, cause obviously someones cruise will be affected due to repairs.

There are no cancellations, as per Carnival. They are making the repairs with passengers onboard. I leave on my Glory cruise February 2. 

[grandmarnnurse]

6 hours ago, funkidd said:

We are supposed to be going on the glory next Sunday the 29th. I’m curious to see what they do in the way of fixing the ship. I’m still not too sure what the damage is but it looks like from the pictures that the metal that was bent in between the two floors was the walk around area to clean the windows and of course the windows were blown out. I wonder how much damage took place on the actual deck between 3 and four?  I’m thinking they will partition that part of the dining room off and put a big curtain over the partition. 
 

any other ideas?  
 

I guess they could even come in there with metal plates and weld them in as a temporary partition. That would be pretty strong. 

I was wondering the same thing. They must be going to relocate those passengers that were assigned tables in that area, partition it off, and work as the sail. I’m on the Glory February 2. 

[1980dory]

On 12/20/2019 at 8:56 AM, Shih-tzu said:

Oh my!!!  And just before one of the busiest cruising weeks where there probably isn't a lot of room for people to re-book on another ship 😞

I hope everyone is OK but looks like dining room and probably there were a few folks there having a late breakfast.

Has me re-thinking my cabin choice for my February cruise - I had picked an OV just below the dining room.

Please keep us updated.

Congratulations!  You certainly do have an OCEANVIEW cabin now!  And with lots of fresh sea air too.

[BallFour4]

2 hours ago, Sailorgrl7392 said:

 But by going in the captain and pilot and bridge team made a decision that it was safe...

 

Ive been in a situation where the captain and pilot misjudged the speed of the ship and slammed into the dock so hard that he gashed a hole in the side of the ship... "Was this the Splendour of the Seas in Costa Maya?"

 

  ...everyone flew out, divers went down and it was all ok and away we went. "What ship did "everyone fly out?"

 

...the pilot is only an advisor.

...but even with the pilot, the captain can take the conn back from the pilot at any time... "these conflict. The pilot never has control of the ship in Cozumel, ever."

 

...at the end of the day though the captain is the one responsible even if the pilot has the conn. WRONG.

 

Quote

 Wow. I'm not sure what role you played (if ever) aboard a ship. Your comments contradict each other in the same sentence. I truncated some for space but if you've spent any time on a single contract you know Cozumel is one port where the pilot joins the ship in open water and even then NEVER takes control of the vessel.

 The harbor pilot gives advice only. The decisions about speed, thrusters, and to dock or not are at the hands of the captain.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by BallFour4

[shof515]

3 hours ago, Sailorgrl7392 said:

When your standing by back there you usually have to call in distances to the bridge on ships/piers/obstructions so they know how far they are off something and to be honest it may have been they were given a bad distance and it caused a chain effect.  Its a really unfortunate situation that happened but stuff like this does happen just like cars and planes have accidents too.

 

 

a couple of years ago, the Carnival Horizon crashed into Pier 90 at New York. The investigation rule that they was miscommunication between the bride team, pilot and other people involved in. i wont be surprised if they was a miscommunication again that could caused this accident. that miscommunication could prevent the calling in distances

[gatour]

Some are saying how much damage was done to the MDR.  Looking at the pictures and deck plans there were relatively few tables impacted by the collision.  The vast majority of the dining room on both decks is usable.  All they have to is cordon off the damaged section floor ceiling "walls" of some sort.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, BallFour4 said:

But by going in the captain and pilot and bridge team made a decision that it was safe...

Bridge team resource management, which by STCW all bridge officers have to have been trained in, requires consultation with, or input from, all personnel on the bridge, whether company officer or harbor pilot.

 

1 hour ago, BallFour4 said:

"Was this the Splendour of the Seas in Costa Maya?"

Why do you assume that the incident is on a cruise ship?

 

1 hour ago, BallFour4 said:

...everyone flew out, divers went down and it was all ok and away we went. "What ship did "everyone fly out?"

What she means is that the company reps, the class surveyor, and the divers flew out to the ship.

 

1 hour ago, BallFour4 said:

"these conflict. The pilot never has control of the ship in Cozumel, ever."

 

1 hour ago, BallFour4 said:

Cozumel is one port where the pilot joins the ship in open water and even then NEVER takes control of the vessel.

Please tell me how you know this "fact", and how you know that every single ship from every single cruise line follows this, and whether if Carnival's ISM code does not proscribe the pilot in Cozumel from taking the conn, that an individual Captain does not agree to this with the pilot, which would be his/her perogative.

 

1 hour ago, BallFour4 said:

4 hours ago, Sailorgrl7392 said:

...at the end of the day though the captain is the one responsible even if the pilot has the conn. WRONG.

 

Not sure what you find wrong in this statement, since it is factual, unless you are talking about the very limited exceptions to this.  

 

1 hour ago, BallFour4 said:

The decisions about speed, thrusters, and to dock or not are at the hands of the captain.

.

Talk about contradicting yourself, first you say the pilot does not take charge, and then you say the decisions are not in the Captain's hands.?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, shof515 said:

 

a couple of years ago, the Carnival Horizon crashed into Pier 90 at New York. The investigation rule that they was miscommunication between the bride team, pilot and other people involved in. i wont be surprised if they was a miscommunication again that could caused this accident. that miscommunication could prevent the calling in distances

Typically, the officers at the mooring stations have laser range finders (think golf range finders) to give them the distances.  From a comment posted by twangster that the wind was blowing from the Oasis towards the Legend, I think that the stern thrusters were counteracting this wind, and then when the stern passed into the wind shadow of the Legend, the removal of this wind force allowed the stern to swing into the wind (toward the Legend) before the thrusters could be reduced or reversed, and certainly before the inertia could be reversed.

[Aquahound]

3 hours ago, BallFour4 said:

 

Ive been in a situation where the captain and pilot misjudged the speed of the ship and slammed into the dock so hard that he gashed a hole in the side of the ship... "Was this the Splendour of the Seas in Costa Maya?"

 

This happened in Costa Maya as well?  I remember 2 incidents with Splendor.  In one, Splendor crashed into the dock and in the other, she crashed in to Radiance of the Seas.  Both were in Puerto Vallarta.  

[tonit964]

10 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

This happened in Costa Maya as well?  I remember 2 incidents with Splendor.  In one, Splendor crashed into the dock and in the other, she crashed in to Radiance of the Seas.  Both were in Puerto Vallarta.  

I was on the Radiance of the Seas at the aft outside eating breakfast when that happened. Crazy.

[itsmeagain]

4 hours ago, 1980dory said:

Congratulations!  You certainly do have an OCEANVIEW cabin now!  And with lots of fresh sea air too.

Now they are going to charge them for a Balcony.

[BallFour4]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

 

This happened in Costa Maya as well?  I remember 2 incidents with Splendor.  In one, Splendor crashed into the dock and in the other, she crashed in to Radiance of the Seas.  Both were in Puerto Vallarta.  

April 2005 in Costa Maya. And it was the Grandeur. My mistake.

Edited December 22, 2019 by BallFour4

[BallFour4]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Bridge team resource management, which by STCW all bridge officers have to have been trained in, requires consultation with, or input from, all personnel on the bridge, whether company officer or harbor pilot.

 

Why do you assume that the incident is on a cruise ship?

 

What she means is that the company reps, the class surveyor, and the divers flew out to the ship.

 

 

Please tell me how you know this "fact", and how you know that every single ship from every single cruise line follows this, and whether if Carnival's ISM code does not proscribe the pilot in Cozumel from taking the conn, that an individual Captain does not agree to this with the pilot, which would be his/her perogative.

 

Not sure what you find wrong in this statement, since it is factual, unless you are talking about the very limited exceptions to this.  

 

Talk about contradicting yourself, first you say the pilot does not take charge, and then you say the decisions are not in the Captain's hands.?

Last to first:
I made a mistake on the decision comment. The Captain has the decision power.

The Grandeur (I originally said Splendour) crashed into the pier in Costa Maya in 2005. No assumption made. My family was on the Splendour when our return to Galveston was delayed by a small fire.
 

At more than a few past guest parties the questions come up about pilots and to the cruise the Captain has stated Carnivals policy that they do not relinquish control. The pilot comes on as an advisor. To be exact, we both know neither steers the ship. the helmsman does.

 I've followed you, quoted you and discussed more than a few topics with you over the seventeen years I've been on here. I have a decent memory of your comments about the Captain and how he/she knows the ship like no other. That includes the idiosyncrasies and mannerisms of the ships handling.

 Go back and read the non-truncated post I pulled from and you can see more that one contradictory statement.

 Come to Galveston, when you are off the ship I'll take you over to Mosquito Cafe and learn some more from your expertise.

.

Edited December 22, 2019 by BallFour4

[shof515]

Here is a better picture i found of the damage on the glory:

 

Looks like the whole back corner is out of shape and does need a lot of work

[BarbinMich]

On 12/20/2019 at 11:05 AM, naxer said:

 

And the stock was doing so nice this morning.  😑

We own that stock, too, but I don't pay much attention to its chart as we bought it for the benefits.  I see it peaked near 70 in early 2018 then had a sloppy slide down to 40 in Oct.  It had just started recovering to 50 when this happened.

[Ellaleah]

Who would want to go on this ship before it is seriously worked over and made whole?  

[Joe817]

1 minute ago, Ellaleah said:

Who would want to go on this ship before it is seriously worked over and made whole?  

I would in a heartbeat, if the discount was deep enough! 

[Hoosierpop]

49 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

Who would want to go on this ship before it is seriously worked over and made whole?  

I’m guessing just about everyone booked on the Glory for upcoming sailings. Not sure why anyone would not go on the sailing.