Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[yorky]

2 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Agree.  

 

What this implies is that X will have way too much capacity following the shutdown.  Most likely scenario is that ships will be sold (if possible) and lines will be smaller offering more limited cruising options.

That depends if the criteria is permanent, I highly suspect this will be a shorter term measure in months and not many years.

[cruisesport]

No doctor should sign a form for anyone who is obese. That would have eliminated half the people on one of our cruises, including the people we were travelling with. Obesity is the leading cause of all other conditions and a huge drain on the health care system. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by cruisesport

[Fouremco]

12 hours ago, jelayne said:

So far I haven’t seen anything from X that

states when this form must be signed, within 7 days, 20 days 60 days, etc....of sailing?  Has anyone see that info?

 

We intend to meet with doctor before final payment if they sign we go if not we cancel and get our deposit refunded.

That's how we are looking at it too, planning to meet with the doctor before final payment to see if he will sign. It would be helpful, however, if Celebrity would indicate if a form signed 90-100 days out will be acceptable. 

[Mark_T]

It feels like we are drifting from debating the conditions that are currently in place, to wishing for those that some would like to be in place...

 

Obesity may well be a root cause or precursor for other conditions, but if those other conditions are not yet in evidence then it should not, by itself, be a reason not to sign a form.

 

 

[upwarduk]

20 hours ago, traveline said:

If you are not sailing before October do not worry about the 70 and over. Cruise lines do not want to lose that market.

Well, they have regrettably lost me. 

I was sent a letter from our surgery on April 1st, advising me that due to multiple long term conditions, I should self shield. 

I would not even waste my Drs time asking for a ‘fit to cruise letter,’ they have far more important patients. on their minds at the moment.. 

We cancelled on Friday 17th April, as full payment is due at the beginning of May for August 1st sailing

 As the  latest round of ‘no sailings’ were only up to June 11th, I was not prepared to donate over £5000 to Celebrity, to be given a FCC, which I might not ever be able to use.

 

There was a Dr on TV this morning, explaining that it doesn’t matter about the degree of severity of Asthma, , mild or acute have the same medication and it’s the medication that you are prescribed that determines if you get the advisory letter or not.

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by upwarduk

[Mr. Click]

9 hours ago, Mark_T said:

 

Yes, you are...

 

Chronic is not a definition of severity or impact, it just means ... 'persisting for a long time or constantly recurring'.

 

So yes, you have chronic conditions.

 

The problem with the wording they are using is the ambiguous and somewhat undefined use of 'severe'.

I agree that the wording is the problem, that is what I am hearing over and over from our doctors.  "you are fine to travel but I can't sign this the way it worded"//  I guess I will wait a month or two and then each out to Celebrity for refunds on  the two deposits we still have out there. No point in taking FCC now.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Mr. Click

[hcat]

Wonder if  antibody test results will impact a physician's willingness to sign the over 70 form  ???

[hcat]

Hoping we can get an antibody test that might assist with a dr's note.

We had what we thought was flu in Feb (after flying from Fl to NY.),  despite getting  the enhanced flu shot this year, and a neg  test for flu on one of us.   We were sicker than we have ever been and after hearing  what the Covid illness entails..think maybe we had it....Antibody test would be helpful.

[phoenix_dream]

On 3/12/2020 at 7:08 PM, embpat said:

Boarding will be denied to any person with a severe, chronic medical condition, including those specified by the CDC. Guests of all ages will be screened prior to boarding, regarding underlying health issues that may prevent them from sailing.  My question is  if I am a  type II diabetic that is healthy and only  take oral medication will I be denied boarding for my cruise? I don't want to show up and  be asked if I'm diabetic and be denied  boarding. There are many diabetics who exercise, don't smoke and control their sugar levels and are healthier than non-diabetics.

I appreciate your dedication to managing your health issue.  And you are likely correct that you are overall healthier than many non-diabetics.  The problem is, Covid-19 impacts diabetics (as well as many other conditions) much more harshly than people without diabetes.  It just does, like it or not.  It is true whether it is well-managed or not (I'm sure worse for those who are not managing it well).  Your condition is not being singled out per se.  Other chronic health conditions are also being screened, as well as health in general.  

 

I can't answer as to whether someone with well-managed diabetes would be allowed to cruise or not - only Celebrity can determine that.  I don't know that the answer is clear right now. 

[PoppyandNana]

On 3/13/2020 at 10:42 AM, tiggy85 said:

I called and asked this exact question last night. We have a friend with a diabetic child Who wanted to join our cruise and they said regardless of age, if anyone has any of those conditions they would be denied boarding. It’s not just 70+. 

X is not sailing currently so are you referring to sailings after May 1 (or 15th) whichever is their target date?  Thought I saw a specific form on X's website that had to be signed by a doctor that in connection with age (+70) would result in non boarding.  I suspect this situation would still be in place by 8/2 which is why we cancelled our reservation.  Plus the thought of sailing with 2,000 New Yorkers (one of the hardest hit places) was asking for trouble.

[Fouremco]

13 minutes ago, hcat said:

Wonder if  antibody test results will impact a physician's willingness to sign the over 70 form  ???

Even if tests are reliable, they can't indicate whether someone is immune to reinfection. In South Korea, health officials are trying to determine why 163 people who recovered from coronavirus have retested positive, according to the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. On the other hand, there's no indication that patients who do retest positive are contagious.

 

The doctor has to certify that you do not suffer "from any chronic illness (e.g. heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS, cancer or diabetes) which would make this patient susceptible to complications arising after infection with the Novel Coronavirus (2019- nCoV)/COVID-19." So even if you have a positive antibody test, the doctor can't in good conscience sign the form if you have such a chronic illness. Just another example of how the form can tie the hands of the doctor. 

[Fouremco]

26 minutes ago, hcat said:

Hoping we can get an antibody test that might assist with a dr's note.

We had what we thought was flu in Feb (after flying from Fl to NY.),  despite getting  the enhanced flu shot this year, and a neg  test for flu on one of us.   We were sicker than we have ever been and after hearing  what the Covid illness entails..think maybe we had it....Antibody test would be helpful.

As I just posted in greater detail in another thread, an antibody test really has no bearing on the doctor's ability to sign off. The doctor has to certify that you have no chronic illness that would make you susceptible to complications arising after infection. There's no provision for the doctor to state that the patient is unlikely to become infected because of a positive antibody test. As currently worded, the form ties the hands of the doctor.

[hcat]

I saw that thread after posting but I think the test  it might be persuasive if it gains credence.   I have no idea really what makes diabetes or any of the listed  chronic conditions such a danger for this virus, other than what I read or hear,  but if  one  is seemingly immune from infection, than maybe  they can cruise???

 

Just hoping for one more cruise! If not, we'll accept and take our $ 2,000+ loss. 

 

[tiggy85]

3 hours ago, PoppyandNana said:

X is not sailing currently so are you referring to sailings after May 1 (or 15th) whichever is their target date?  Thought I saw a specific form on X's website that had to be signed by a doctor that in connection with age (+70) would result in non boarding.  I suspect this situation would still be in place by 8/2 which is why we cancelled our reservation.  Plus the thought of sailing with 2,000 New Yorkers (one of the hardest hit places) was asking for trouble.

I’m not sure why you are commenting on something I posted over a month ago. Lots has changed...

[tiggy85]

15 hours ago, Mr. Click said:

This form is for everyone, the Fit to Sail Form is for those of us over 70.  We asked one of our doctors about and he said no way he could sign it.  He said it only asks if you have these conditions and between us we have 5 of them.....yet we are pretty healthy because we work to stay that way.   4 of the 5 issues we deal with are not curable but we are not cronic with them. The 5 is kidney stones and that is a whole other kettle of fish because it is not a disease.

I posted that link for the form over a month ago - obviously a lot has changed. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

6 hours ago, yorky said:

That depends if the criteria is permanent, I highly suspect this will be a shorter term measure in months and not many years.

It took airlines ten (10) years to get back to pre-9/11 levels.  Even posters and pundits on this pro-cruising site will tell you they are not cruising until a vaccine is available and other precautions are in effect.  CLIA, along with the CDC, have advocated for halting cruising to those over 65 (CDC) and 70 (CLIA).  While the cruise industry has been working to find new clientele, the COVID-19 pandemic has put a full stop to anyone who was even remotely thinking about cruising.  And, when it does return it will be different and totally unlike pre-COVID-19.  With about 40 new ships ordered and  building, and hundreds of laid-up ships, returning to any semblance of "easy cruising" is considered dreaming.

[cruise47]

Our cruising friends are both 70plus in age one has high blood pressure and diabetes.  Does that mean they cannot cruise anymore?

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by cruise47

[yorky]

8 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

It took airlines ten (10) years to get back to pre-9/11 levels.  Even posters and pundits on this pro-cruising site will tell you they are not cruising until a vaccine is available and other precautions are in effect.  CLIA, along with the CDC, have advocated for halting cruising to those over 65 (CDC) and 70 (CLIA).  While the cruise industry has been working to find new clientele, the COVID-19 pandemic has put a full stop to anyone who was even remotely thinking about cruising.  And, when it does return it will be different and totally unlike pre-COVID-19.  With about 40 new ships ordered and  building, and hundreds of laid-up ships, returning to any semblance of "easy cruising" is considered dreaming.

Thank you but you have your opinion and I have mine. I do not subscribe to the doomsday scenario a few of you are pushing. We can’t wait to cruise again and many others feel the same way, that’s our prerogative exactly the same way it is for those that are done with cruising. We are due to cruise in February and will take a balanced view before that date based on the situation at the time.

[yorky]

4 hours ago, upwarduk said:

Well, they have regrettably lost me. 

I was sent a letter from our surgery on April 1st, advising me that due to multiple long term conditions, I should self shield. 

I would not even waste my Drs time asking for a ‘fit to cruise letter,’ they have far more important patients. on their minds at the moment.. 

We cancelled on Friday 17th April, as full payment is due at the beginning of May for August 1st sailing

 As the  latest round of ‘no sailings’ were only up to June 11th, I was not prepared to donate over £5000 to Celebrity, to be given a FCC, which I might not ever be able to use.

 

There was a Dr on TV this morning, explaining that it doesn’t matter about the degree of severity of Asthma, , mild or acute have the same medication and it’s the medication that you are prescribed that determines if you get the advisory letter or not.

 

They are not sending out the 12 week advisory letter to shield for those with Asthma only, it’s not on the high risk list unless to take a certain combination of meds. People with acute Asthma don not take the same meds as those with mild Asthma.

”

The NHS now say that you would be considered at very high risk if ALL THREE of these things apply to you:

• You have asthma, AND
• You are taking certain extra controller medicines as well as a preventer inhaler (for example, you are taking Montelukast, salmeterol or formoterol, or you are on a combination inhaler like Seretide, Fostair, Symbicort, Flutiform, Fobumix, DuoResp Spiromax, Combisal, Sereflo, Sirdupla, Aloflute, AirFluSal, Relvar Ellipta, Fusacomb or Stalpex), AND
• You are taking continuous or frequent oral steroids.“

I have Asthma along with others at work and no one has received a letter.

Edited April 20, 2020 by yorky

[Fouremco]

3 hours ago, hcat said:

I saw that thread after posting but I think the test  it might be persuasive if it gains credence.   I have no idea really what makes diabetes or any of the listed  chronic conditions such a danger for this virus, other than what I read or hear,  but if  one  is seemingly immune from infection, than maybe  they can cruise???

 

Emirates started testing passengers at the airport last week using a rapid blood test administered by the Dubai Health Authority. Maybe, in time, the CLIA and its members will view antibody tests as a viable alternative. In the meantime, we are stuck with the existing form.

 

17 minutes ago, cruise47 said:

Our cruising friends are both 70plus in age one has high blood pressure and diabetes.  Does that mean they cannot cruise anymore?

 

The one with hypertension and diabetes won't be able to cruise on a CLIA-member cruise line for as long as the requirement for this form is in force. How long that will be is subject to speculation.

[Flatbush Flyer]

41 minutes ago, cruise47 said:

Our cruising friends are both 70plus in age one has high blood pressure and diabetes.  Does that mean they cannot cruise anymore?

 

8 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

The one with hypertension and diabetes won't be able to cruise on a CLIA-member cruise line for as long as the requirement for this form is in force. How long that will be is subject to speculation.

 

As aforementioned, not all CLIA members are requiring an MD note.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Flatbush Flyer

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

 

As aforementioned, not all CLIA members are requiring an MD note.

Correct.

[Content@Sea]

On 3/11/2020 at 4:00 PM, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

Celebrity already has my money for my April and May cruises.  If I am barred from going because of a stupid rule like this, they had better refund my money to my credit card!  I do not need a $10,000 future cruise credit.  This is age discrimination, pure and simple.

TOTALLY agree!  Anybody at ANY age is equally at risk.

What has not been addressed is the refund of airfare to cruise departure port. I have paid Celebrity deposit on 12-day NZ cruise out of Sydney in October. Business airfare from Miami to Sydney is typically >US$8000. Last week, I snagged a really good deal for $4200 RT on Qatar. 100% NON Refundable. Insurance does not cover this situation.
I was really excited about my deal until I heard 2 days ago about the >70s rule.

The exam has to within 7 days of departure, evidently. I'll already be in Sydney at that time, sightseeing before the cruise. What local Dr is going to certify a total stranger as fit to board?
What a mess!
 

[luv2travel90266]

My doctor was not comfortable about completing the over 70 health form due to his liability and not my health. I suspect some doctors might take the risk with a waiver of personal liability. Personally I am  not interested in cruising till a vaccine becomes available to maintain my health and will cancel unless a miracle vaccine is available sooner than is expected.  

[travelordie]

My physician won't sign the form nor do I blame him.  I would not sign the form if I were in his position.  My April and June cruises were cancelled by the cruise lines.  I still have three upcoming cruises between September and March but will need to cancel all of them unless the cruise industry stops this age discrimination.  What is especially annoying is that it was the cruise industry itself and not the government which created this new regulation.  At least the airline industry continues not to discriminate against those 70 and older.